Israel approves 300 new West Bank settlements

[stomination]

Territory taken in military conquest is not "yours" and settling it is a war crime.

In 1947, the newly formed Israeli government, made up of former terrorists from Irgun and Lehi, began an ethnic cleansing campaign in the UN partitioned Israeli territory. When the Arab league responded with military intervention, Israel won, and subsequently began an illegal settling campaign. Egypt and Jordan, while occupying Palestinian territory, did not attempt to annex or settle Palestinian territory. 1967 borders aren't enough for Palestine. The new borders should reflect the original UN partition plan. If Israel begins to attack and annex more Palestinian territory, they should face a NATO bombing campaign until they withdraw.

So you just described the majority of the world's countries.

[Holas]

Territory taken in military conquest is not "yours" and settling it is a war crime.

In 1947, the newly formed Israeli government, made up of former terrorists from Irgun and Lehi, began an ethnic cleansing campaign in the UN partitioned Israeli territory. When the Arab league responded with military intervention, Israel won, and subsequently began an illegal settling campaign. Egypt and Jordan, while occupying Palestinian territory, did not attempt to annex or settle Palestinian territory. 1967 borders aren't enough for Palestine. The new borders should reflect the original UN partition plan. If Israel begins to attack and annex more Palestinian territory, they should face a NATO bombing campaign until they withdraw.

Have you ever heard of the Israeli air force? google it. I pity the souls of the poor NATO pilots trying to bomb Israel.

[Shadowrunner]

The funniest part is these threads always manage to produce a newly registered torch bearer for the Israeli government.

I am here because I play. I have been here for years, ignoring this sub-forum. I have a few characters on Raveholdt-EU the main with this name, don't have anything to hide.
I have a lot of problems with Israeli internal affairs, especially the ever increasing weight we give religious parties. I am not going to do my Ph.D in Israel, and I am actually leaving in the upcoming future. So yeah, I am not a big supporter of the current government. Nonetheless the amount of falsehood and plain ignorance being spread regarding Israel's handling of the Palestinian situation is hard to ignore.

[stomination]

Have you ever heard of the Israeli air force? google it. I pity the souls of the poor NATO pilots trying to bomb Israel.

Or the fact that Israel is part of Nato's Mediterranean Dialogue group. While Palenstine isn't.

[Shadowrunner]

What a coincidence that UN's numbers of civilian casualties in 2014 Gaza War were much closer to the ones given by Palestine while the numbers given by Israel were half of UN's.

Yes, what a coincidence.
It isn't like UN's very own UNRWA (which is the only UN agency dedicated to a specific ethnicity and/or region. One would have thought Syria and Nigeria, to name a few, are full of bunnies and rainbows and don't have civilians slaughtered on a weekly basis), an unbiased agency with 99% of its staff being local Palestinians, provides the figures..

[Mehrunes]

You mean the same UN that have 20 resolutions on Israel and 4 on the rest of the world combined? The same UN that employs Hamas activists that steal aid money to build attack tunnels? Shocking.

Oh noes, UN puts more scrutiny on western world and has better access to information they can use against a nation due to its transparency. Who would have guessed.

It was already proven that the numbers are closer to Israels numbers however it requires basic math, so I guess you won't understand but you can ask a friend to explain it to you.

Yeah, like it has been proven that West Bank is Israeli land despite international courts saying otherwise. But we all know Israeli proof and data is the only viable one when talking about Israeli actions /s

[Mehrunes]

Nonetheless the amount of falsehood and plain ignorance being spread regarding Israel's handling of the Palestinian situation is hard to ignore.

But ignoring the abject bullshit that West Bank is officially Israeli land is much easier, amirite?

Yes, what a coincidence.
It isn't like UN's very own UNRWA (which is the only UN agency dedicated to a specific ethnicity and/or region. One would have thought Syria and Nigeria, to name a few, are full of bunnies and rainbows and don't have civilians slaughtered on a weekly basis), an unbiased agency with 99% of its staff being local Palestinians, provides the figures..

So very relevant. UN RWA is separate from UN HRC which provided the numbers, but I guess UN has staff problems and they have the same people for all their agencies. And UN RWA provided help for both sides of the conflict until Israel took over doing so for the Israeli people.

[zmp]

You're so stupid it hurts.

Keep the sand out of your vagina, i think its causing you some distress.

[Holas]

But ignoring the abject bullshit that West Bank is officially Israeli land is much easier, amirite?

And why its not? most of the "palestinian"villages there are based on Israeli ancient settlements. They took the name and called it the same in arabic. The west bank was Israeli just as much the rest of Israel. If anything Tel aviv (which was built on arabic village sheh munis) is LESS Israeli then most settlements in west bank that were built in free space. I am not speaking on hevron and other biblical cities in the west bank that like Jerusalem have rich archeological findings of Israel culture.

When Israel was formed it was not given entire Israel (like it was promised btw in 1917) however the Jews agreed to have only part of their rightful land. The arabs didn't and attacked and lost some land in the process. It was returned to its rightful owners - the Jews.

Just like Muslims living in Germany are not entitled in 100 years for their own Muslim country (even though they will just grab all of germany), the arabs in Israel are not entitled to parts of it, especially when they want ALL of it and won't settle for less. Ask west bank palestinians if they would settle for a palestinian state in the west bank. 90% will tell you that all Israel belongs to them and they are partially right, if they are given west bank then they should be given tel aviv.

[Majestic12]

We don't want peace because we build in territory that we won fair and square in a war that was forced upon us? Ok. Just because you throw rhetorics left and right doesn't make it so. The fact is that 50 years have passed since 67, no for a moment during those years was there a serious peace partner.

I am not going to teach you history that you obviously don't know, but the cliff notes are: In 48 Israel established a state, the Palestinians didn't, there was war where they brought their friends along. 19 years later same story, the Palestine Liberation Organization (founded by Egypt, and which purpose was the eradication of Israel and establishment of a Palestinian state across ALL of Israeli land) forced war again, and lost. So-called Palestinian territory, which never contained a Palestinian state and during those 19 years was under occupation by Jordan and Egypt, was taken by Israel. Jordan signed peace with Israel, and never claimed the West bank back, Egypt lost another war 6 years later and then signed peace, never claiming the Gaza strip. Those peace agreements last to this very day.

There was never a Palestinian state. They gambled with war, they lost the gamble. Twice. There is no reason, no reason what-so-ever why Israel should just hand that territory over. The Palestinians live and manage they own internal affairs, many live on and use Israeli infrastructure, they receive electricity and water from Israel, which they don't pay for. Some of them get Israeli work permits and earn higher salaries than their cousins in neighboring states, likewise the proximity to a much stronger economy slightly pays off.
As poor as their lives are, they aren't abused or randomly shot at, like some stupid stories you get in your media. I am an ex-infantry soldier, I have been there, you haven't. Mistakes happen in a war, but when our soldiers make mistakes they are trialed, and in the rare cases they violate our strict firing instructions (which any of the Americans training with us would attest to), they sit in prison. Meanwhile suicide bombers' families get a pension from the Palestinian authority.

Ultimately, this situtation is bad for us and bad for them. Israel wants peace. Personally I am not against a two-state solution, not on 67 borders, that will never happen, but a two state solution nonetheless. But what should we do? Hand them territory, walk out and have rockets falling all over Israel from the West Bank as well? Been there, done that. Gaza is not under Israel control, hasn't been for over 10 years. It is under blockade to stop weapons coming in (bought with international support money). Hamas controls Gaza (after being elected democratically...), they same organization whose official aim is the destruction of Israel.
Once there is an actual desire for peace on the other side, we can start talking. Till then Israel will settle the land rightfully owned by us.

And in practical terms, a Palestinian state with no territorial continuity on poor land, how would that work out? Is this really the best solution for them?

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah yeah, we are all religious nutjobs... Spoken like someone who has no clue.
Give me a break, all of those here who bring religion. Most of us are non-religious and many oppose religion, it is useless and has no place in the modern world.

- - - Updated - - -



No we don't

You're not going to fool anyone educated about these things.

First off, the first deal was terrible. Jews were always the minority but somehow were to be given more land. It was simply not a good deal and the arabs were right to decline it.

Secondly, Israel has time and time again shown their true intentions. Look at the six-day war when Israel attacked first. I know that's not what they teach you in school. They teach a modified version of the truth twisted to serve the cause for "God's chosen people". Brainwash.

Add to the fact that someone was arrested and put to jail for eating a sandwich with ham on it. Ring a bell?

You think in 2016, that there won't/shouldn't be major outrage over the fact that you run with the "to the winner go the spoils" argument. It is not a video game. Your settlements are illegal and their cause is to take over a land in the name of religion. Extremists. So don't come here and say how good you are, because you're not.

Israel is not a victim. Israel is an aggressor driven by religion and deserves all the critique it gets.

- - - Updated - - -

And why its not? most of the "palestinian"villages there are based on Israeli ancient settlements. They took the name and called it the same in arabic. The west bank was Israeli just as much the rest of Israel. If anything Tel aviv (which was built on arabic village sheh munis) is LESS Israeli then most settlements in west bank that were built in free space. I am not speaking on hevron and other biblical cities in the west bank that like Jerusalem have rich archeological findings of Israel culture.

When Israel was formed it was not given entire Israel (like it was promised btw in 1917) however the Jews agreed to have only part of their rightful land. The arabs didn't and attacked and lost some land in the process. It was returned to its rightful owners - the Jews.

Just like Muslims living in Germany are not entitled in 100 years for their own Muslim country (even though they will just grab all of germany), the arabs in Israel are not entitled to parts of it, especially when they want ALL of it and won't settle for less. Ask west bank palestinians if they would settle for a palestinian state in the west bank. 90% will tell you that all Israel belongs to them and they are partially right, if they are given west bank then they should be given tel aviv.

LOL. "Ancient Israeli settlements"? King David is a myth and not historically accurate. The Bible is not a historical document it consists of fairytales. Your "King David" is one of those, who I hear you're building something for in Silwan in Jerusalem. There is simply no way around these facts:

1. Israel is ultra religious who in the name of religion keeps taking land and dedicating constructions to the fake "King David".
2. Israeli settlements are illegal. No cares if you won the war, the law is the law. It is not your land to build on.

[Shadowrunner]

Secondly, Israel has time and time again shown their true intentions. Look at the six-day war when Israel attacked first. I know that's not what they teach you in school. They teach a modified version of the truth twisted to serve the cause for "God's chosen people". Brainwash.

Don't patronize me. I know the history of my country better than you. Where did your "teaching modified version" hogwash come from? Source? I never paid a lot of attention in school but I am pretty sure that it what they teach. Israel launched preemptive strike against Egypt in response to amassing of troops by Egypt, Jordan and Syria on the borders, the closure of Thiran straits by Egypt, and the Iraqi army deployments in Jordan and Syria. War was imminent and unmistakable. Never did I say that Israel didn't strike first, nor does it matter. I said war was forced upon us, which it was. Preemptive strike is what any sane nation would have done.

Add to the fact that someone was arrested and put to jail for eating a sandwich with ham on it. Ring a bell?

No, it doesn't. I buy pork on a weekly basis, I eat shrimps in restaurants and at home. Never have anyone here, including the religious minority, even gave me a face for eating non-kosher in public. Yes, it happens, rarely, like everywhere else in the world with religious nutjobs.
Cut the crap, the shit you read somewhere, or something you saw on TV. You never were here, clear as the noon sun. You are ignorant. Say that we can't eat pork here to anyone who lives here and they will laugh in your face.

You think in 2016, that there won't/shouldn't be major outrage over the fact that you run with the "to the winner go the spoils" argument. It is not a video game. Your settlements are illegal and their cause is to take over a land in the name of religion. Extremists. So don't come here and say how good you are, because you're not.

Israel is not a victim. Israel is an aggressor driven by religion and deserves all the critique it gets.

Again, more naive and uninformed crap. In the name of religion? No, not in the name of religion. Israel was established by secular Jews and to this day the vast majority are non-religious.

- - - Updated - - -

First off, the first deal was terrible. Jews were always the minority but somehow were to be given more land. It was simply not a good deal and the arabs were right to decline it.

So in the same breath as you say "No cares if you won the war, the law is the law", you also say that the same law doesn't apply to the Arabs, and they were right to declare war. Nice.
In other words the law is the law, as long as it fits anti-Israeli agenda, otherwise feel free to reject it and go to war.

[Theodarzna]

I wonder when the pure muslim hatred inside you will hit Nazi level as a German and you will desire extermination of Muslims.

* Need more rage for German ulti

I am not German......

But gosh, you are right, 400 isn't enough either. 600 wonderful Israeli settlements is more ideal, you gotta double the number.

HEY! Look over yonder, a wild surviving Armenian family!

- - - Updated - - -

You mean the same UN that have 20 resolutions on Israel and 4 on the rest of the world combined? The same UN that employs Hamas activists that steal aid money to build attack tunnels? Shocking.

It was already proven that the numbers are closer to Israels numbers however it requires basic math, so I guess you won't understand but you can ask a friend to explain it to you.

GLORIOUS RADIANT UN IS LIGHT UNTO WORLD JUST LIKE IMMORTAL GOD EU COMMISSIONERS PROTECT!!!!!

/s

[Macaquerie]

It is kind of interesting how Israel has cast its lot with the lunatic right wing fringe, the majority of whom are antisemites at heart who have momentarily, and only just momentarily, found another target that's even more alien and easier to go after. It's only a matter of time before Israelis start reciting canned rhetoric about the UN globalist agenda and international banking conspiracies while remaining totally oblivious to who they actually refer to.

[Theodarzna]

It is kind of interesting how Israel has cast its lot with the lunatic right wing fringe, the majority of whom are antisemites at heart who have momentarily, and only just momentarily, found another target that's even more alien and easier to go after. It's only a matter of time before Israelis start reciting canned rhetoric about the UN globalist agenda and international banking conspiracies while remaining totally oblivious to who they actually refer to.

The Left more or less dominates Antisemitism today, Jews are like the Kurds in that respect, they don't have friends.

[ParanoiD84]

Look at the six-day war when Israel attacked first.

Anyone would have attacked first or do you think that for example the us would just sit there when tons of muslim nations formed up against them? It's not like the arabs would have attacked anyways so why wait?

[Macaquerie]

The Left more or less dominates Antisemitism today, Jews are like the Kurds in that respect, they don't have friends.

The left tends support policies that go against Israeli interests, but it does not generally buy into that mystical, pseudoscientific, conspiratorial bullshit that gives antisemitism its distinctive character, that's generally the preserve of ultranationalist white supremacists.

[ParanoiD84]

The Left more or less dominates Antisemitism today, Jews are like the Kurds in that respect, they don't have friends.

The kurds have a lot of friends atm I know sweden trains them and give them anti tank weapons, the us loves them or loves thier advances against daesh and many others do but you are right in that a lot of people want them dead but it's not working so good for those lol.

[Machismo]

There's nothing quite like the thought of stealing one person's land, and giving it to another, to bring out the cheers of "small-government" conservatives.

[Macaquerie]

The kurds have a lot of friends atm I know sweden trains them and give them anti tank weapons, the us loves them or loves thier advances against daesh and many others do but you are right in that a lot of people want them dead but it's not working so good for those lol.

It's not really that simple, the Kurds happen to live in the most volatile region in the world and are spread out across four different countries, each with complex and varying relationships with the West that creates an entire web of conflicting interests when it comes to supporting their aspirations to statehood. And this isn't even taking into account the fractured and chaotic nature of their own internal politics which would make any future Kurdistan a hotbed of violence and political intrigue even without foreign interference, of which there is sure to be plenty.

I think most Americans who are aware of the Kurds are broadly sympathetic to their plight, but the prospect of slicing off pieces of four strategically vital nations just so the Kurds can have a bloody civil war doesn't seem all that appealing.

[ParanoiD84]

It's not really that simple, the Kurds happen to live in the most volatile region in the world and are spread out across four different countries, each with complex and varying relationships with the West that creates an entire web of conflicting interests when it comes to supporting their aspirations to statehood. And this isn't even taking into account the fractured and chaotic nature of their own internal politics which would make any future Kurdistan a hotbed of violence and political intrigue even without foreign interference, of which there is sure to be plenty.

Fair enough