Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Like I've said time and time again.
Separate Subscriptions.

Want the old game? Pay a monthly fee to keep those servers up, say 66% of what the live one is.
Want the current game? Pay the usual monthly fee for the servers and continuous work on the game.
Want both? Pay full price for both.

[Eleccybubb]

Like I've said time and time again.
Separate Subscriptions.

Want the old game? Pay a monthly fee to keep those servers up, say 66% of what the live one is.
Want the current game? Pay the usual monthly fee for the servers and continuous work on the game.
Want both? Pay full price for both.

Why 2 separate subs? Runescape charges 1 membership price for access to the member servers both oldschool and modern.

[Hrishi]

Like I've said time and time again.
Separate Subscriptions.

Want the old game? Pay a monthly fee to keep those servers up, say 66% of what the live one is.
Want the current game? Pay the usual monthly fee for the servers and continuous work on the game.
Want both? Pay full price for both.

I have to disagree here. Having the same subscription give you access to both encourages crossover and people trying out the other. Gating both behind it's own subscription seems inferior to this. It wouldn't change anything from the point of view of people who only play 1, but punishes those who want to try the other.

[Deficineiron]

No slippery slope at all. You want a Vanilla server than you get what Vanilla was. Really isn't hard. People who want modern QoL and LFR in a vanilla server are the kind of people who shouldn't be on a vanilla server and on Legion.

The issue I refer to has been seen on PS's - premade pve-objective honor farming in AV causing a high % of matches to not really be pvp but a rank/honor-driven pve objective race.. I know/have r3ead that this was done in classic but on a much, much smaller scale as a % of total av's.

are you even familiar with the issue? i know 'exactly like classic' sounds great in theory but this is something blizz would run into right out of the gate which was not nearly such an issue in classic.

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Pristine just sounds fucking awful. If you are gonna make the leveling more painful then make it more difficult because even without looms it ain't hard atm.

sounds like you just don't think 'tickle' and 'giggle' should be the main outdoor mob yellow attacks. What do you have against mobs tickling players? It seems that if those are the primary dangers encountered while leveling, it is because the players demanded it.

Fortunately players don't have the full vote franchise of the classic greek city-state democracies or we might see some rather different game and corporate events. GM's and other blizz names ousted one week, put in charge the next, etc., based on forum rhetoric??

[Vineri]

The issue I refer to has been seen on PS's - premade pve-objective honor farming in AV causing a high % of matches to not really be pvp but a rank/honor-driven pve objective race.. I know/have r3ead that this was done in classic but on a much, much smaller scale as a % of total av's.

are you even familiar with the issue? i know 'exactly like classic' sounds great in theory but this is something blizz would run into right out of the gate which was not nearly such an issue in classic.

sounds like you just don't think 'tickle' and 'giggle' should be the main outdoor mob yellow attacks. What do you have against mobs tickling players? It seems that if those are the primary dangers encountered while leveling, it is because the players demanded it.

Fortunately players don't have the full vote franchise of the classic greek city-state democracies or we might see some rather different game and corporate events. GM's and other blizz names ousted one week, put in charge the next, etc., based on forum rhetoric??

I've reread this 3 times. I have no idea if you have a point, or even what you were trying to get across .. I thought I knew, I even started to respond, then I reread a 4th time, and now I'm lost. Conclusion: you should be a Blizzard mod on the official forums!

[Deficineiron]

I've reread this 3 times. I have no idea if you have a point, or even what you were trying to get across .. I thought I knew, I even started to respond, then I reread a 4th time, and now I'm lost. Conclusion: you should be a Blizzard mod on the official forums!

different topics. 1) inevitability of need to alter something in classic pve honor structure in hypothetical official servers due to behavior change (in aggregate) of playerbase observed in PS community. 2) sarcasm about 'damage' done by live game leveling mobs. tickle and giggle are yellow attacks. Used to you saw yellow attacks that were based on player damage abilities, sometimes with specially boosted dmg. 3) 'the players demanded it' is a known 'fact' from blizzard about any number of things (pandas come to mind). I was just offering a left field observation that a true egalitarian decision-making process by the playerbase might have some similarities to some period of classic greek history.

So you could write 3 differetn replies?? I avoided some of the more bloody analogies that might come to mind in 3) on purpose, lets keep it on employed/not as the max event.

[Tackhisis]

I own the CD's, and if I refuse the agreement I can still use them as I wish, without agreeing to the EULA.

You can use the CDs. For example, you can put cups on them. You have no right to install and use anything that is recorded on them, as it is not your property.

[Vineri]

different topics. 1) inevitability of need to alter something in classic pve honor structure in hypothetical official servers due to behavior change (in aggregate) of playerbase observed in PS community. 2) sarcasm about 'damage' done by live game leveling mobs. tickle and giggle are yellow attacks. Used to you saw yellow attacks that were based on player damage abilities, sometimes with specially boosted dmg. 3) 'the players demanded it' is a known 'fact' from blizzard about any number of things (pandas come to mind). I was just offering a left field observation that a true egalitarian decision-making process by the playerbase might have some similarities to some period of classic greek history.

So you could write 3 differetn replies?? I avoided some of the more bloody analogies that might come to mind in 3) on purpose, lets keep it on employed/not as the max event.

Honor manipulation existed since Vanilla, yes. If caught, the outcome is equally swift. "Good" PS's will bring this point home, since they want to create a haven of fairness. Perfect? no. If caught, are you banned for 3 days? No, you are nuked.

Heroic open world areas are and still are pretty wondrous. A place to be afraid of, even with friends in your group. HOWEVER ..... More difficult single player mobs? Blizzard misses the mark with pristine, yet again. Pristine is not what people really want.

Panda's are not Legacy so I'll skip that 3rd part.

[Deficineiron]

Honor manipulation existed since Vanilla, yes. If caught, the outcome is equally swift. "Good" PS's will bring this point home, since want to create a haven of fairness. Perfect? no. If caught, are you banned for 3 days? No, you are nuked.

Heroic open world areas are and still are pretty wondrous. A place to be afraid of, even with friends in your group. HOWEVER ..... More difficult single player mobs? Blizzard misses the mark with pristine, yet again. Pristine is not what people really want.

Panda's are not Legacy so I'll skip that 3rd part.

ok, but 3rd part was the most fun. I imagined gm's and other blue names demoted/promoted/fired/re-hired based on prominent forum rhetoricians week by week, game retuning, feature enabling/disabling, blue gold selling price changes vs RL currency, etc. Imagine if the official forums ran the game (hint - outcome won't be dr. suess' If I Ran the Zoo)

are you actually famliar with the scale of the honor/av pve farm problem on prominent ps's?

[Vineri]

ok, but 3rd part was the most fun. I imagined gm's and other blue names demoted/promoted/fired/re-hired based on prominent forum rhetoricians week by week, game retuning, feature enabling/disabling, blue gold selling price changes vs RL currency, etc. Imagine if the official forums ran the game (hint - outcome won't be dr. suess' If I Ran the Zoo)

It would explain the churn happening at Blizzard

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are you actually famliar with the scale of the honor/av pve farm problem on prominent ps's?

I suppose it depends on the PS. While I play PVP, I tend to mind to myself. When attacked though, I am already prepared. I win 90% of the time, even though I don't provoke anyone. People generally leave me alone, though some try occasionally still. I have lots of tricks in my bag.

So, to answer your question, I guess I'm not sure what you are getting at. I don't give much hoot about honor ranks anyways - I just enjoy the game for the most part, PVE with occasional PVP.

[Deficineiron]

It would explain the churn happening at Blizzard

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I suppose it depends on the PS. While I play PVP, I tend to mind to myself. When attacked though, I am already prepared. I win 90% of the time, even though I don't provoke anyone. People generally leave me alone, though some try occasionally still. I have lots of tricks in my bag.

So, to answer your question, I guess I'm not sure what you are getting at. I don't give much hoot about honor ranks anyways - I just enjoy the game for the most part, PVE with occasional PVP.

re churn, i bet rob pardo is having a disproportionate impact on the more talented departures. I am still struck by the name he chose, reminds me of nolan bushnell and sente (vs. atari).

[slaise1]

I have to disagree here. Having the same subscription give you access to both encourages crossover and people trying out the other. Gating both behind it's own subscription seems inferior to this. It wouldn't change anything from the point of view of people who only play 1, but punishes those who want to try the other.

What I feel would be the best subscription model would be 60-70% for vanilla only and full price for both

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I have to disagree here. Having the same subscription give you access to both encourages crossover and people trying out the other. Gating both behind it's own subscription seems inferior to this. It wouldn't change anything from the point of view of people who only play 1, but punishes those who want to try the other.

If Blizzard decides to open up old patches or servers that means increased workload for their staff (maybe even more staff) as well as increased running costs, now that's fine if people pay for it. However I have no interest in playing old content and thus I don't want to pay for it, the likely outcome is that the subscription cost increases if Blizzard opens up old content servers. Why? well like I said, increased costs for them to run them. That extra cost... where should it be covered? By everyone, By the ones that want the old content servers or a mix? I'm for the second option.

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Why 2 separate subs? Runescape charges 1 membership price for access to the member servers both oldschool and modern.

Because they are two different games.
"Live" servers you pay for the servers to stay online and development of the game as it currently is and any future content.
"Old" servers you pay for the servers to stay online and for bug fixes and "repairs" of the game.

example
Live servers cost $15 a month to run and maintain + invest in future content.
Old servers cost $10 a month to run and maintain.

Do you think it's fair for Blizzard to bump the monthly sub to $25 to cover the increased costs? No, the new servers opened for old content should be payed for those who want it and not by everyone.
It's honestly like ordering pizza, you can have delicious pepperoni pizza and pay $15 for it but if you want another small pizza with ham and mushrooms on it you got to pay an extra $10. You don't get it free because they're already in the kitchen and the oven is turned on...

[Gadzooks]

There's no threat to the IP from a privately run Vanilla server. This nonsense about them "losing the copyright" was called on it's bullshit way back earlier in the thread.

You might want to run this quaint legal theory of yours past an actual lawyer, before posting online.

[Vash The Stampede]

Again, you can duplicate software you own all you like so long as you don't distribute it. It is your legal right to have archived copies of things you own so long as you're not distributing them.

What's the duplicate software here? The server stuff is lost, as Blizzard has said. Only thing being stolen is data farmed by websites like Thottbot and etc.

It doesn't make fiscal sense to go after every guppy in the pond. Legally they only have to go after enough big fish that they maintain their rights to the IP. If they never challenged any of these guys, even if they weren't making profits, they would lose their rights to their IP.

Someone is going to find a legal away around this eventually, if Blizzard doesn't provide legacy servers. It may not be as authentic as the original games were but again, Blizzard said they lost that code so an approximation is good enough.

Like I've said time and time again.
Separate Subscriptions.

Want the old game? Pay a monthly fee to keep those servers up, say 66% of what the live one is.
Want the current game? Pay the usual monthly fee for the servers and continuous work on the game.
Want both? Pay full price for both.

Yet, the pirate realms operate for free. If you playing Legion right now, I would imagine that these legacy realms should be part of the package. Not my fault some of us would rather play previous content over Legion.

Do you think it's fair for Blizzard to bump the monthly sub to $25 to cover the increased costs? No, the new servers opened for old content should be payed for those who want it and not by everyone.
It's honestly like ordering pizza, you can have delicious pepperoni pizza and pay $15 for it but if you want another small pizza with ham and mushrooms on it you got to pay an extra $10. You don't get it free because they're already in the kitchen and the oven is turned on...

Pizza is not like software or servers. You do realize most games on PC that have multiplayer are doing it free? Blizzard already does this for free with Diablo games. Overwatch doesn't have a monthly fee. Paying the $15 fee made sense back in 2004 when your server CPU was a Xeon from the amazingly bad Pentium 4. Today for $4k, Blizzard can have a 22 core Xeon that per core is faster than anything from 2004, and like 22 of them.

I'm not saying free is the only way to go, but it wouldn't be an additional cost to those who already play WoW. If anything, those who play legacy WoW should pay less, but going to Legion they'll pay $15. Even though I believe Legion is a failure and it's imminent that subscriptions will be removed from the game, but probably not before Blizzard gives some sorta discount like 3 months for $15 promotion or something.

[Beckers]

Well in my country people go to jail for stealing some food to give them to their kids cause they have not money and have hungry, but fucking politicians corrupted motherfuckers are doing vacations even when they are in judge court, a banker destroy one of the big ones and nothing happens to him, etc...welcome to Spain!

So imagine how i feel when people call me thief cause i play Nostalrius. Just figure that.

But.. You are a criminal. That's the truth of it all.

Knowingly using a stolen product does not clear you from guilt, far from it, you are a partner in crime which is in this case - theft.

The fact that the games changed versions since then does not change the copyrights.

[Perkunas]

You might want to run this quaint legal theory of yours past an actual lawyer, before posting online.

Not my idea, honestly. There was a post back buried where they cited another game out there with private servers and a live version running different patches and the devs didn't throw a fit. I'd like to know where exactly somebody running an outdated version of your game on a not for profit private server could cost you your IP? I really want to see that because if that's the case copyright law is psychotic because what's stopping me from making a copy of Lord of the Rings Extended thus shattering the the rights and making it free from now on?

Also,

SoE(now Daybreak games) formally recognized the fanmade EverQuest emulator server Project1999 as a not for profit project and signed an agreement that established guidelines Project1999 must follow, and as long as they do they are legally allowed to run and both SoE(Daybreak) and Project1999 are protected.

EA has also allowed private servers for UO so long as they aren't for profit. There's some bullshit here....

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But.. You are a criminal. That's the truth of it all.

Knowingly using a stolen product does not clear you from guilt, far from it, you are a partner in crime which is in this case - theft.

The fact that the games changed versions since then does not change the copyrights.

I hope you've never jaywalked, Judge Dredd. Ever accidentally run a red light or stop sign? CRIMINAL! Better drive exactly on the speed limit or lower. This holier than thou attitude is for annoying autists.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Yet, the pirate realms operate for free. If you playing Legion right now, I would imagine that these legacy realms should be part of the package. Not my fault some of us would rather play previous content over Legion.

*I'm not saying free is the only way to go, but it wouldn't be an additional cost to those who already play WoW. If anything, those who play legacy WoW should pay less, but going to Legion they'll pay $15. Even though I believe Legion is a failure and it's imminent that subscriptions will be removed from the game, but probably not before Blizzard gives some sorta discount like 3 months for $15 promotion or something.*

Pirate servers are run by volunteer workers that takes no pay and server costs are covered by donations or advertisement income. Pirate servers are also NOT kept to the same standard as Blizzard has to meet because they're a big international company and their reputation is one of the most important things.
Old content servers wouldn't be run by volunteer workers, servers won't be run by donations and that's where the big costs are.

*That's exactly what I'm saying...
If you want to play old content because you enjoyed it more, great, awesome! But you still have to pay a monthly fee for it. Since old content isn't in development anymore you wouldn't have to pay for future development like the live subscription does.

Imagine the live monthly sub is divided in 3 parts.
$5 for running costs.
$5 for staff.
$5 for development and profit.
total: $15

However for old content servers it would look like this.
$5 for running costs.
$4 for staff.
$1 for profit.
total: $10

and this would be completely fine, but hey- what if I want both?
well...
$10 for running costs.
$9 for staff
$6 for development and profit.
total: $25

[Duronos]

But.. You are a criminal. That's the truth of it all.

Knowingly using a stolen product does not clear you from guilt, far from it, you are a partner in crime which is in this case - theft.

The fact that the games changed versions since then does not change the copyrights.

Well then call the cops on me.

[Deleted]

Hello guys, first time posting here.

I would like some help from everyone that wants legacy servers, we need help getting our message across the entire wow community. The message is the following :

"The current retail wow is a different game from what it was back in 2004-2008, there is nothing wrong with it, it's the best mmo on the market but it's targeted at a different crowd, that is why most players that want legacy servers do not enjoy retail.

Being two completely different games due to the design philosophy it's is normal for current retail players to say the game was bad/unplayable back then, but the people that want legacy servers know how the game was and they like it that way, don't see the point in arguing with what people find entertaining or not because it comes down to personal preference and not everyone is the same/likes the same things.

I don't get why some retail players are so against the legacy servers, and here are some points why all the wow community should support legacy servers:

- Blizzard will not change the current game in any way and blizzard will not force you to play on legacy servers.

- Legacy servers, if blizzard chooses to do so, will have an extra fee, that extra fee will not go to legacy servers development but instead it will go to the development/ improvement of the current retail wow.

- Maintaining the server up for legacy will be a minimal cost because there will not be that many people playing it compared to the live game.

- Being able to play a game in its older version is something that blizzard has been doing since diablo2 expansion, giving the players the option to play a Classic character or and expansion character, so why not also do it on world of warcraf, some mmo's have done these "old school" servers runescape and everquest and they are successful servers.

- Giving the players the option to go back and play an old games is good, for example you can always go back and play your old single player games that you have already beaten, but playing them again is still fun because you enjoy the game, Legacy servers are no different and as long as blizzard is profiting from them i see no reason no to make them available to the community

On a final note, I think, if blizzard releases these servers, that they should fully disclose to all legacy servers players that no content patches/updates will be added to the game, so people do not expect any more extra content from what is already is the game."

Feel free to share this with everyone one I believe that a lot of players see legacy servers as a bad thing for them, that is not true, I hope this changes their minds