"No way back, Sweden will never be what it was"

[Hell-Nicø]

Sounds good to me. A country with diversity beats one with no diversity.
Not to mention that immigrants help the economy.

HAHAHAHAHA !
Good one mate, good one. For a sec I was thinking you were seriou...

Ho....

Ho you were serious didn't you ?
My god he is serious !

[May90]

No, they do not.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel...rtikel=6272001

In the past year, property prices in Sweden have risen by over 15 percent. The increase can no longer be explained by increased household income, negative interest rates and tax break, the National Institute of Economic Research (NIER), writes in its latest economic report.

"Prices have continued to rise. The rate of increase is 10 to 15 percent per year and it cannot go on forever," says NIER Director General Mats Dillén, to SVT News.

This is just an example of a non-perfect free market. That said, property prices rise and drop for a large variety of reasons, and explaining it by intentionally providing low supply to high demand seems overly simplistic and, probably, wrong.

Your response is as right-wing as it gets. Maybe liberal, which is also right-wing.
They're telling you it's an issue of profitability. Which is poor wording for a lending problem:
At some point they lend easily, then the economy contracts, they lend less, building is not profitable for a while, then economy expands... Sweden may control their own currency, but they're subject to those cycles all the same.

What's with the "left/right" obsession on these forums? Come on, folks, it is a bit more complicated than two straw manned terms.

[Deleted]

But to get back on topic, this is a poor reason to refuse to help refugees.

No, it's a very good reason since we don't have the means to without comprimising parts of our own systems.

[Wells]

Exactly how will you make companies build more if they profit from not building more?



How, exactly?

Because if the supply of housing is not sufficient for the demand, which is clearly isn't with your wait times, then there's a profit to be made in constructing additional housing units.

The only way that profit wouldn't be realized is because either the government or a cartel is preventing someone from doing so. The government can fix both.

This is really just like bottom barrel basic economics.

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No, it's a very good reason since we don't have the means to.

Observably false as you're already doing it.

[Hell-Nicø]

are migrants/refugees committing any crimes that citizens don't? amounts?

Well, I not your google bitch so find the source yourself, but in short, YES.
By A LOT !

[Deleted]

Observably false as you're already doing it.

In case you are not aware the government has implemented a series of measures aimed at stopping refugees getting into Sweden. They have also made it far harder for them to bring over their relatives. We got 160k last year, after the measures were implemented we have received 20000 this year.

[Wells]

In case you are not aware the government has implemented a series of measures aimed at stopping refugees getting into Sweden. They have also made it far harder for them to bring over their relatives.

So? You're claiming you can't help refugees because of the housing situation. This is clearly incorrect as you're already doing it.

[Deleted]

Mother of God.......

[Deleted]

So? You're claiming you can't help refugees because of the housing situation. This is clearly incorrect as you're already doing it.

We're not already doing it, there's huge issues with getting the refugees places to live. Many have been stuck in the asylum facilities for a long time, something which they are not meant to be. They are supposed to move out after their application has been accepted but they can't in far too many cases since there's nowhere for them to live. In some cases they can find some place to live but they live in really cramped conditions. I have seen about 10 people sharing a 60 sqm 2-room apartment myself as a result of this.

[Wells]

We're not already doing it, there's huge issues with getting the refugees places to live. Many have been stuck in the asylum facilities for a long time, something which they are not meant to be. They are supposed to move out after their application has been accepted but they can't in far too many cases since there's nowhere for them to live. In some cases they can find some place to live but they live in really cramped conditions. I have seen about 10 people sharing a 60 sqm 2-room apartment myself.

Well, better get around to addressing your housing supply issue then.

[Deleted]

Well, better get around to addressing your housing supply issue then.

Which isn't as easy as you claim it to be.

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Well, better get around to addressing your housing supply issue then.

Which isn't as easy as you claim it to be.

[May90]

We're not already doing it, there's huge issues with getting the refugees places to live. Many have been stuck in the asylum facilities for a long time, something which they are not meant to be. They are supposed to move out after their application has been accepted but they can't in far too many cases since there's nowhere for them to live. In some cases they can find some place to live but they live in really cramped conditions. I have seen about 10 people sharing a 60 sqm 2-room apartment myself as a result of this.

The system is overloaded more than expected. It happens, and it is unfortunate - but it by no means implies that Swedish government can't handle refugee housing, it simply implies that it doesn't handle it as well as expected.

---

Ultimately, I feel like all these debates are just clashes of extremes. Yes, refugees drain the economy - no, they don't destroy it. Yes, refugees increase the overall crime - no, they don't increase it dramatically. Yes, refugees are very numerous - no, they are not numerous enough to cause cultural shift in the country. If we stop looking at extremes and see the picture more objectively, then suddenly we can discuss actual issues, instead of seeing "neo-nazi vs hippie" arguments.

[Wells]

Which isn't as easy as you claim it to be.

Easy? Of course not. But you obviously need to do it, refugees or no refugees. So instead of acting like the refugees are the issue here, address the laws and tax incentives that make it undesirable or impossible to build more housing.

[Deleted]

The system is overloaded more than expected. It happens, and it is unfortunate - but it by no means implies that Swedish government can't handle refugee housing, it simply implies that it doesn't handle it as well as expected.

Yes, that's why there were tent camps set up, because we have no problems with housing them.

Easy? Of course not. But you obviously need to do it, refugees or no refugees. So instead of acting like the refugees are the issue here, address the laws and tax incentives that make it undesirable or impossible to build more housing.

I never said they are causing it. They are simply aggravating the problem.

You are still trying to simplify it rather than seeing it for what it is, a complex problem in which a slight mistake could crash the whole market, which would obliterate any help we can give.

[May90]

Easy? Of course not. But you obviously need to do it, refugees or no refugees. So instead of acting like the refugees are the issue here, address the laws and tax incentives that make it undesirable or impossible to build more housing.

I feel like the problem here is not that housing isn't being built fast enough, but, rather, that it is hard to distribute such high arrival flows among the built places.

Much like water shortage problem in Africa. It is not that there isn't enough water (there is enough fresh water in Africa to feed billions people for billions years) - it is that African countries don't handle its distribution well, which causes "clumps" and shortage of water in some regions, while its extreme overabundance in others.

[Deleted]

I feel like the problem here is not that housing isn't being built fast enough, but, rather, that it is hard to distribute such high arrival flows among the built places.

Sure, that's a problem too. There's plenty of places up north but almost nobody wants to live there, not even Swedes. You can get pretty cheap houses up there, if you want to have like 1 hour to your closest neighbour by car and maybe even more to a store. Need help from the police? Forget about them arriving in time to help you, it will take them hours. In some places they might only have one patrol for a very large area. House caught on fire? No firefighters will ever be able to reach you in time before it's burnt to the ground since they are hours away from you.

You are pretty much on your own in those cheap places up there.

[Grummgug]

Russia is funneling as many Syrian refugees into Sweden as it can. The reason is that these people are not friends of NATO or the EU and actually see Russia as a positive force for good in the world. THAT is the culture shift Russia seeks. While Europe spreads bad press about Russia, these Syrian refugees will reject it. The goal here is civil unrest and a revolution when they get the numbers of refugees high enough in Sweden. The revolutionaries will DEMAND Russia intervene to stabilize the new Sweden. So, one day you will wake up and Russia will have simply moved its military into Sweden and announce a transition phase.

If you don't believe me, you can read about it in the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/wo...-traveled.html

Here's a photo of Syrian refugees in SWEDEN, displaying the Russian flag. Its basically a Russian invasion of Sweden using immigrants.

[Hell-Nicø]

It has been already posted but I feel it need to be reposted.
Their is some cringworthy random anarchist image between the segment but otherwise it's really interesting and should be eye opening to people who think they their is no problem. Look especially the last part.



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Here's a photo of Syrian refugees in SWEDEN, displaying the Russian flag. Its basically a Russian invasion of Sweden using immigrants.

So ... since when Syrian are black people again ?

You obviously don't know what you are talking about mate and all these guy are nether Syrian nor refugee.

[Deleted]

Here's a photo of Syrian refugees in SWEDEN, displaying the Russian flag. Its basically a Russian invasion of Sweden using immigrants.

Those are not syrians.

[Grummgug]

It has been already posted but I feel it need to be reposted.
Their is some cringworthy random anarchist image between the segment but otherwise it's really interesting and should be eye opening to people who think they their is no problem. Look especially the last part.



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So ... since when Syrian are black people again ?

You obviously don't know what you are talking about mate and all these guy are nether Syrian nor refugee.

So the new york times doesnt know what its talking about either? Interesting.