"No way back, Sweden will never be what it was"

[Deleted]

So would you prefer living at home with your parents than living in that apartment? I doubt it. That's the point; If you can't afford a good apartment, then you can't afford a good apartment. But people should at least be able to make the choice; Most low-income people can't get a place to live, and I think many would love to live in your apartment given the chance.

No, because it's cheaper to live here than with my parents.

[nextormento]

for example, laws about sound reduction between walls have been suggested to be lowered.

Fulfilling sound requirements is not particularly taxing. It's a pain because it's complicated to model. But any architect with a bit of training can come up with very simple and cheap solutions to any of the problems: reverberation, air transmission or impact.
Transmission across walls, for instance, is most taxed by gaps in the horizontal structure: flanking transmission via ceilings and floors. The hollow ceramic pieces, or the polystyrene pieces concrete slabs often are made with, need be filled or replaced with something massive, something dense, right above and bellow the area we want sound to not travel.

But, since it's all profit driven, and developers want it fast and cheap, who's gonna care about those solutions. Raising the standard through legislation is the response to our carelessness as an industry.

[Deleted]

Hopefully Denmark will never go down that route that sweden went for. Sweden is ruined.

[Deleted]

No, because it's cheaper to live here than with my parents.

Right. Point still stands.

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Fulfilling sound requirements is not particularly taxing. It's a pain because it's complicated to model. But any architect with a bit of training can come up with very simple and cheap solutions to any of the problems: reverberation, air transmission or impact.
Transmission across walls, for instance, is most taxed by gaps in the horizontal structure: flanking transmission via ceilings and floors. The hollow ceramic pieces, or the polystyrene pieces concrete slabs often are made with, need be filled or replaced with something massive, something dense right above and bellow the area we want sound to not travel.

But, since it's all profit driven, and developers want it fast and cheap, who's gonna care about those solutions. Raising the standard through legislation is the response to our carelessness as an industry.

What would you suggest to ease up on the housing crisis?

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Hopefully Denmark will never go down that route that sweden went for. Sweden is ruined.

I keep hearing this but I wonder if any of you Sweden-is-doomed-guys has ever been here for a prolonged amount of time.

[Deleted]

Hopefully Denmark will never go down that route that sweden went for. Sweden is ruined.

And Norway as well, would be a shame to lose a country with such a rich culture. I used to think the same about Sweden but sadly I dont see a way for them to come back from this.

[Deleted]

Hopefully Denmark will never go down that route that sweden went for. Sweden is ruined.

Sweden is not ruined by more non-Swedes living in Sweden. The Sweden Democrats are more likely to destroy the country than non-Swedes living here.

[Deleted]

If you look at policies passed in bordering countries, a collapse of Sweden seems almost inevitable at this point. It's basically going the way of Kosovo with various groups coming to blows in the long run over whom will ultimatively dominate and control what emerges from it or at least manage to grab the most ground. It's not going to be pretty and for many other European countries it might very well dictate their own future.

Personaly I hope that countries such as Norway will do as they say and so will others and refuse any refugees from Sweden, including native Swedes. As all it would do is reproduce the same outcome over and over again. This way Sweden might actually work as the canary in the coal mine or a wake up call for other European countries to fundamentally change a lot of their policies.

http://speisa.com/modules/articles/i...collapses.html

Sweden is not ruined by more non-Swedes living in Sweden. The Sweden Democrats are more likely to destroy the country than non-Swedes living here.

Anything whatsoever to back this back? It's similar to the whole "diversity is strenght" chant. Both are usually screamed without any kind of data or arguments to back them up and expected to stand on their own. While there's ample evidence that diversity tends to lead to segregation, conflict and outright civil war amongst other things. It's one of the reasons certain African and Middle Eastern countries are in such a terrible state, because they have different groups fighting for control of the state and land who draw very clear lines. The same is increasingly happening in countries such as Sweden and will spin out of control the moment the current government can't pay them off anymore/quell the growing unrest.

[Flarelaine]

I don't have the means to move around freely as it's going to take me 2-3 years to get enough points in the queue system to get a new apartment.

I live close to Mora.

Points? Queue system? I've heard rants (mostly from rabid right-wingers) of Sweden being a pithole of Communism, but this surprised me. I thought Sweden was still basically capitalist, you know? Free market and all?

[Deleted]

And Norway as well, would be a shame to lose a country with such a rich culture. I used to think the same about Sweden but sadly I dont see a way for them to come back from this.

Come back from what?

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Points? Queue system? I've heard rants (mostly from rabid right-wingers) of Sweden being a pithole of Communism, but this surprised me. I thought Sweden was still basically capitalist, you know? Free market and all?

Yes, you get one point every day. Once you have accumulated enough points so you are in the front in the queue system and you get the apartment you want, provided you want it and can afford it.

[nextormento]

What would you suggest to ease up on the housing crisis?

Yours, I don't know.
Ours sorely needed to slow down. We had the opposite problem: we built more than there were buyers, so now we have entirely empty neighborhoods, and prices on decline.

[Deleted]

Come back from what?

Self destructive PC, leftist madness where criminals are given a free pass cause it would be racist to persecute them while victims are punished and silenced.

[Deleted]

Anything whatsoever to back this back? It's similar to the whole "diversity is strenght" chant. Both are usually screamed without any kind of data or arguments to back them up and expected to stand on their own. While there's ample evidence that diversity tends to lead to segregation, conflict and outright civil war amongst other things. It's one of the reasons certain African and Middle Eastern countries are in such a terrible state, because they have different groups fighting for control of the state and land who draw very clear lines. The same is increasingly happening in countries such as Sweden and will spin out of control the moment the current government can't pay them off anymore/quell the growing unrest.

It's you who will have to back it up that the country is going to get ruined by non-Swedes living here. You're saying that my mother, that my friends who are not Swedish, are somehow ruining this country even though they love the country.

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Self destructive PC, leftist madness where criminals are given a free pass cause it would be racist to persecute them while victims are punished and silenced.

No criminals are given a free pass on those grounds.

[Deleted]

No criminals are given a free pass on those grounds.

I havent really seen many reliable reports about this in Sweden however in the UK and France, this is happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwxSNeD7tbI

Stuff like this, and frankly, I couldnt care less if you think hes racist or whatever. Feelings shouldn't matter when it comes to laws. However none of these .. gentlemen got in any trouble while Robinson has has to stand trial and even went to jail on false charges.

[Deleted]

I havent really seen many reliable reports about this in Sweden however in the UK and France, this is happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwxSNeD7tbI

Stuff like this, and frankly, I couldnt care less if you think hes racist or whatever. Feelings shouldn't matter when it comes to laws. However none of these .. gentlemen got in any trouble while Robinson has has to stand trial and even went to jail on false charges.

I do not care about what happens in the UK or France in a discussion about Sweden. It's not happening here.

[Deleted]

It's you who will have to back it up that the country is going to get ruined by non-Swedes living here. You're saying that my mother, that my friends who are not Swedish, are somehow ruining this country even though they love the country.

Sweden is not ruined by more non-Swedes living in Sweden.

You made this claim. You have to back it up. Crime statistics, numbers of social welfare recipients, the situation in "diverse" countries featuring different groups, increasing conflicts between groups in formerly peaceful and monolithic European societies etc all speak against your claim. Meanwhile, you have nothing going for it.

You can start by showing that for example crime statistics show that both groups are equal on that footing and it does not lead to increased crimes rates. You can then follow up by useage of welfare and such.

Afterwards you'll have to explain how exactly "diversity is a strenght" and how it benefits a country. Rather than leading to civil unrest, conflict, fights for supremacy ranging from clannish behaviour and self chosen segregation to open conflict and genocide as seen in Kosovo and Rwanda.

[Deleted]

I do not care about what happens in the UK or France in a discussion about Sweden. It's not happening here.

Just because they tend to call rape "cultural enrichment" there doesnt mean its not happening. Im just personally not that familiar with the individual cases so Im not really qualified to provide you with more specific facts as Im not really willing to put a few hours into doing my research about it.

[Deleted]

You made this claim. You have to back it up. Crime statistics, numbers of social welfare recipients, the situation in "diverse" countries featuring different groups, increasing conflicts between groups in formerly peaceful and monolithic European societies etc all speak against your claim. Meanwhile, you have nothing going for it.

The only conflict I'm seeing is that right-wing extremists are attacking non-Swedes for no reason at all. Crime statistics does not show that the country is getting ruined by non-Swedes. Is there a problem among some immigrant groups with crime? Yes, but that does not ruin the country.

[Deleted]

The only conflict I'm seeing is that right-wing extremists are attacking non-Swedes for no reason at all.

Your refusal to address any of these points, then fleeing into something that is statistically insignificant but might very well escalate in the future BECAUSE of the situation people like you have brought about and helped foster really doesn't make your position particularly strong or appear reasonable. In fact it undermines it.

It's the nationalism and the desire to remain seperated and isolated that creates the segregation, conflict and 'outright civil war'. (Don't think there is an example of the latter in a modern society).

IF everyone agreed that diversity was okay, there wouldn't be any conflict.

Quod gratis asseritur gratis negatur, you need to back these claims up. While you're at it you also need to dispell ethnoc centrism, in group preference and various other human traits which are both sound and logical and can be seen in pretty much all other species aswell. You would also need to tell which groups you see exactly at fault for the divide and what you think about different ideologies and cultures coming into conflict here and how you'd want to sort that out.

As some of them reject very decisively the right to exist of others or expect them to subjugate themselves under them.

[Deleted]

Your refusal to address any of these points, then fleeing into something that is statistically insignificant but might very well escalate in the future BECAUSE of the situation people like you have brought about and helped foster really doesn't make your position particularly strong or appear reasonable. In fact it undermines it.

You have no points, you are basically fearmongering. That there are some groups that have a higher crime rate than Swedes does not somehow mean non-Swedes are ruining the country. It's a problem, yes, but not of the magnitude you portray it as.

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Quod gratis asseritur gratis negatur, you need to back these claims up. While you're at it you also need to dispell ethnoc centrism, in group preference and various other human traits which are both sound and logical and can be seen in pretty much all other species aswell. You would also need to tell which groups you see exactly at fault for the divide and what you think about different ideologies and cultures coming into conflict here and how you'd want to sort that out.

As some of them reject very decisively the right to exist of others or expect them to subjugate themselves under them.

I don't think you know how in group preference work for humans.

[Deleted]

You have no points, you are basically fearmongering. That there are some groups that have a higher crime rate than Swedes does not somehow mean non-Swedes are ruining the country. It's a problem, yes, but not of the magnitude you portray it as.

False claim, followed by buzzword, followed by relativism and excuses. All of them without anything whatsoever to back them up or give them substance. You can do better than that (Nah, just kidding. We both know you can't but obviously you wont ever admit that.).

I don't think you know how in group preference work for humans.

And I think this is the very first time you've heard about them, the same as ethnic nepotism and other human behaviour. A lot of them which are logically sound. Ethnic nepotism is btw the best long term strategy as it combines altruism with a focus on the own group, while still allowing them to benefit from other groups unchecked altruism.