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  1. #381
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    "If I don't want something, then I'm entitled to not having to deal with it" - Gen OT (2016).
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  2. #382
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    "If i do not understand topics i will type random shit to show that i do not understand the topic" Gen OT (2016)

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    You can both choose not to have sex, it is just that the woman can choose when to become a parent, and the father cant.
    I would say that this is a very misleading statement.

    While in theory you are sort of correct, here in the real world, on a planet I like to call earth, most of the times this becomes an issue is when the women falls pregnant unintentionally. It may be as the result of making a stupid choice (or a series of stupid choices) but the choice to become pregnant is not made, it is an unintended consequence.

    And you may argue that it is still her "choice" whether to follow through with the pregnancy, a decision to terminate is not something arbitrary, like say, choosing to have sex with someone, or put on a condom, or take the pill.

  4. #384
    Are you comparing rape with you not taking responsibility after having sex?
    Here is a novel idea, if you don't want to have a kid, don't fuck. Don't expect the woman to kill the fetus just because you are dumb.

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I would say that this is a very misleading statement.

    While in theory you are sort of correct, here in the world, on a planet I like to call earth, most of the times this becomes an issue is when the women falls pregnant unintentionally. It may be as the result of making a stupid choice (or a series of stupid choices) but the choice to become pregnant is not made, it is an unintended consequence.

    And you may argue that it is still her "choice" whether to follow through with the pregnancy, a decision to terminate is not something arbitrary, like say, choosing to have sex with someone, or put on a condom, or take the pill.
    That is exactly the argument. The decision to terminate is something arbitrary in the sense that everyone will react differently to them. For some females it will be something that they regret, while others will not give it a second thought. I do not think that the feels that someone might have should be the reason to force males into parenthood when they do not want to or are not ready for it.
    She isn't forced to abort, she can still have the child, she just won't be able to force the male into parenthood any more.

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by gen0mex View Post
    Here is a novel idea, if you don't want to have a kid, don't fuck.
    Well, I guess that depends on how strongly you feel about the issue. You can, by taking the proper precautions, keep the risk very low and still have sex. But if you're absolutely adamant not accepting any risk whatsoever the, yes, the only solution is to abstain.

    Quote Originally Posted by gen0mex View Post
    Don't expect the woman to kill the fetus just because you are dumb.
    Or the two of you got unlucky (it does happen). But yeah I agree absolutely 100.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    The decision to terminate is something arbitrary in the sense that everyone will react differently to them.
    That does not make it arbitrary. It makes it arbitrary for some people. In no way does it diminish the seriousness of the decision for another individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    I do not think that the feels that someone might have should be the reason to force males into parenthood when they do not want to or are not ready for it.
    Don't do that - reduce a highly complex human response to a severe trauma as just "feels". By your logic, we should allow murder because in the end, the only real consequence is "feels".

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    She isn't forced to abort, she can still have the child, she just won't be able to force the male into parenthood any more.
    Yeah, it's so awesome being a woman. All that wonderful freedom. You know, she can even choose to kill herself, solving all the problems! Fuck, I mean how selfish are women these days that they still insist on forcing the other responsible party to take on some of the responsibility? Jeez!

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Yeah, it's so awesome being a woman. All that wonderful freedom. You know, she can even choose to kill herself, solving all the problems! Fuck, I mean how selfish are women these days that they still insist on forcing the other responsible party to take on some of the responsibility? Jeez!
    People are talking about choosing to abort, and being able to force males into parenthood. You take it 10 steps too far and start talking about killing herself. Is there something seriously wrong with you?

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    "If I don't want something, then I'm entitled to not having to deal with it" - Gen OT (2016).
    "If a woman wants a baby she can't afford, we should garnishes the wages of the men she sleeps with to pay for it, even if she rapes them, sabotages contraception, or steals their genetic material to artificially inseminate herself, and incarcerate the men who cannot pay, and increase the tax burden on everyone to finance the enforcement of this state of affairs. This is an example of how society hates and oppresses women." Gen OT (2016)

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    It's really ridiculous to compare saying no to an act, with saying no to the consequences of said act.

    You don't get charged for a crime for refusing to do a crime. You will get charged for a crime, if you did it, but now try to say no to the consequences of it.
    Using an analogy like yours:
    You and your partner are criminals.
    You commit a crime with a partner.
    You are both very good at evading the police.
    This time, you are both caught.
    Your partner is told: if you give us the stolen goods, we will let you two go.
    Your partner refuses, and you are both arrested.

    I know it's a bad analogy, but pregnancy really isn't analogous to committing a crime.
    The heart of the issue is that it breaks down to one person making a decision, and two people having to deal with the consequences.

    Honestly, parenthood should be an opt-in process for men. Both parents should be able to decide whether or not they wants to be financially responsible for the children, and as violation of an individuals bodily autonomy is unacceptable the only way that we can assure that men are capable of deciding whether or not they want to be the father is by allowing them the opportunity to decide if they are or not.
    This would mean that women would retain the ability to decide whether or not a child is born, but men would be given the ability to decide if they want anything to do (financially or otherwise) with said child.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destump View Post
    People are talking about choosing to abort, and being able to force males into parenthood. You take it 10 steps too far and start talking about killing herself. Is there something seriously wrong with you?
    It's called using hyperbole to illustrate a point. It's a perfectly legitimate debating device:

    A hyperbole is an extreme exaggeration used to make a point. It is like the opposite of “understatement.”

  11. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    That does not make it arbitrary. It makes it arbitrary for some people. In no way does it diminish the seriousness of the decision for another individual.
    That makes it arbitrary in the sense that not everyone react the same, just like i said. I have not said anything about the people who do have feels about it.

    Don't do that - reduce a highly complex human response to a severe trauma as just "feels". By your logic, we should allow murder because in the end, the only real consequence is "feels".
    And why should i not? It is exactly what it comes down to "feels". And no, that is your logic, because of these "feels" that these woman have they get to enslave someone for 18 years. By that logic it would indeed be okay to murder someone i guess, i'd have to check on how feminism views this. /s
    Yeah, it's so awesome being a woman. All that wonderful freedom. You know, she can even choose to kill herself, solving all the problems! Fuck, I mean how selfish are women these days that they still insist on forcing the other responsible party to take on some of the responsibility? Jeez!
    And you end it with some more feels, it is and will always be a choice for woman. And this choice is forced upon the man they had sex with.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    It's called using hyperbole to illustrate a point. It's a perfectly legitimate debating device:
    You're right, this is a great technique. Lets see, whats a good hyperbolic analogy?

    I want a Ferari. I drove a dude home in my old car once, so I should be able to force that dude to pay for half of a Ferari, and the government should garnish his wages so I can make my car payments, and should put his deadbeat ass in jail if he can't pay. He agreed to a car ride with me, so he's absolutely responsible for financing my new car, even if I don't drive him anywhere anymore.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Abortion is simply not something you can force on someone. Thats what it comes down to. It would be utterly cruel.
    Nature is not equal though. Don't tell me you didn't know this?
    Except I don't want to force anyone to abort. But if it's 100% her choice the man should also get the choice to opt out of fatherhood. Knowing this, the woman will have a choice to carry to term, abort, adopt, whatever.

    But if it's 100% her choice it should be 100% her responsibility.

  14. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    That makes it arbitrary in the sense that not everyone react the same, just like i said.
    That's not the definition of arbitrary.

    "ar·bi·trar·y
    ˈärbəˌtrerē/
    adjective

    based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system"
    The whole point I made is that the choice to abort is not something that everyone can make whimsically. It has to be carefully considered because the consequences are potentially severe either way. Just because a few sociopaths may view it as arbitrary does not make it objectively so.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    And why should i not? It is exactly what it comes down to "feels".
    Because that is the way a sociopath thinks and it has no relevance on the human population at large. Emotional trauma is a real thing, even though you would like to understate it as "feels". You cannot equate the sense of loss some crazy tree-hugger "feels" when you squash a cockroach with the sense of loss a parent "feels" when they bury their child

    And emotional trauma after an abortion is a well documented phenomenon that affects many women.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    And no, that is your logic, because of these "feels" that these woman have they get to enslave someone for 18 years.
    Stop exaggerating.

    Firstly, having to take responsibility for a child =/= enslavement.
    Secondly, the reason you have to take said responsibility is not her "feels". It's that you were stupid/reckless/careless enough to get the wrong woman pregnant. It's on you. YOUR FAULT. Own up, take responsibility, and act like an adult.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    it is and will always be a choice for woman.
    Yes, but the choice is not an arbitrary or easy choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    And this choice is forced upon the man they had sex with.
    This may be true, and it might even seem unfair, but it is not unjust. At the end of the day, you can complain all you like, but this is fundamentally about the biological differences between men and women and the implications this has in the case of an unwanted pregnancy (by either partner).

    Now you can sit there and lament how much it sucks to be a man in the modern world, or you can grow a pair and try to see things from the female perspective, at which point, if you have any semblance of empathy inside you, you'd realise that she doesn't have it any easier than you (in fact I find somewhat narcissistic when men "feel" they have it worse than women in this case - yes, that's irony mate, you are responding purely on "feels" yourself).

    But really, all that actually matters in the end is that you know what the deal is. If you don't like it then no one is forcing you to have sex with any woman who would "enslave" you into paying for a child. Take responsibility for your life, be careful with contraception and most importantly know who you're fucking.

    Lastly, and most importantly. Stop deluding yourself into the belief that you are entitled to "consequence-free sex". No one is.
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2016-10-03 at 03:21 PM.

  15. #395
    This reminds me of an old ferengi saying. A contract is a contract is a contract but only between ferengi.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Except I've never seen people making this argument. Because no one is that stupid. That's like saying that people who get behind the wheel of car want to have a collision. There is a world of difference between wanting to have a child and accepting that pregnancy is a possible consequence of sex.
    Actually, it was the very short sighted counter argument to abortions. People that claim to give a fuck about equality and feminists. Called it on on being stupid.

    You'll find plenty of people in this thread that bring up bodily autonomy readily tell men not to have sex if they aren't ready to be a parent. With zero sense of irony.

  17. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by pateuvasiliu View Post
    Except I don't want to force anyone to abort. But if it's 100% her choice the man should also get the choice to opt out of fatherhood. Knowing this, the woman will have a choice to carry to term, abort, adopt, whatever.

    But if it's 100% her choice it should be 100% her responsibility.
    No worries, let's call it 50.000001% her vote and 49.999999% yours.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DisposableHero View Post
    You're right, this is a great technique. Lets see, whats a good hyperbolic analogy?

    I want a Ferari. I drove a dude home in my old car once, so I should be able to force that dude to pay for half of a Ferari, and the government should garnish his wages so I can make my car payments, and should put his deadbeat ass in jail if he can't pay. He agreed to a car ride with me, so he's absolutely responsible for financing my new car, even if I don't drive him anywhere anymore.
    And the point you're trying to make??? At least mine was obvious. Yours is just plain nonsense.

    For a start every man knows what the deal is when they have sex with a woman.

    Why would anyone ever be expected to pay for half a Ferrari for you simply because you drove him home once?

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    That child has to be taken care of, one way or another, it's either going to be the father or the people (who pay taxes through the state handing out child-support).
    Why is your assumption that a single mother is incapable of supporting a child financially on her own?

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    And the point you're trying to make??? At least mine was obvious. Yours is just plain nonsense.

    For a start every man knows what the deal is when they have sex with a woman.

    Why would anyone ever be expected to pay for half a Ferrari for you simply because you drove him home once?
    How far does the technology for abortions have to come in your mind in terms of safety and lack of consequences for the woman before we can say that casual sex for men is just casual sex and if they use birth control they clearly aren't consenting to supporting a baby, otherwise what you are saying to them is, you can drive home with a woman if you want, but if there is a car accident and she wants a new car you have to help her pay for it. If you don't like it, walk home, or drive home with other men.

  20. #400
    Men are not being forced into anything. We choose to put our penis inside a vagina. There are consequences for all our actions, but this self entitled / man-child generation don't want to take responsibility for anything we do. If you are going to fuck, then be a fucking man and accept the consequences if the woman gets pregnant. Weren't you raised to take responsibility for your actions or is this a new concept to this shitty generation?

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