The RNG Brickwall

[shonist]

It's not about legendary for me. Problem is that everything is behind an RNG brickwall from regular dungeon gear to crafting professions.

You are saying that mythic dungeons doesnt drop 840, they drop 800 and you need luck to have 840??

Lucky ppl gets more than others, unlucky ppl doesnt get less than they should.

[Jtbrig7390]

Its not fun and i suspect the developers maybe are aware of this too some degree. They rail about how not fun the currency system was but they added virtually the same shit in the artifact weapon.

Yep I just hope there not stupid enough to wait until the fallowing expansion to fix the issues. Because waiting 2-3 years is not a good idea.

There lack with communication with the community is bad really bad. I camped the mob for the paladin hidden artifact skin for 12 hours and no spawn. People are reporting spawn timers anywhere from 40mins to over 24hours and blizzard hasn't said anything.

[chunx0r]

Its not fun and i suspect the developers maybe are aware of this too some degree. They rail about how not fun the currency system was but they added virtually the same shit in the artifact weapon.

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Well i did just to point out how inconsistent they are.

But this thread is still filled with people clamoring for a defined non RNG upgrade path. Which is AP?

[Seranthor]

But this thread is still filled with people clamoring for a defined non RNG upgrade path. Which is AP?

If I could spend AP to buy my profession recipes I would in a heartbeat.

[Borfl]

You kids need to watch out when you complain about merits. I have over 600 days /played time on my main. Nearly two hundred thousand pvp kills and almost all "ahead of the curve" raid boss kills since they have existed, nearly all heroic kills from Cata and MoP, and most heroic kills of WoD despite of a break during WoD due to its shitness. I've grinded myself to exalted with the most important Legion factions and progressing on hc difficulty on the latest raid. If some elitist cunt says I haven't invested time and effort in the game, I call them worthless sacks of human waste who can go fuck themselves and deserve zero respect -- as players, forum posters and human beings alike.

That's nothing special. 600 days /played and 80% of that spent AFK tabbed out, AOTC is achievable by most casual raiding guilds, rep grinding, bloodthirsty title grinding(10 years later lol)- maybe if you were a seasonal gladiator on a non-fotm class I'd say you've put in real effort.

Time invested mindlessly grinding a lot != effort. If you think you're amazing why haven't you joined a mythic progression guild? If you're simply defining your end game as heroic raiding then you are still playing at a casual level.

Heroic raiders are a dime a dozen its essentially what normal difficulty should be as normal is just easy mode while LFR is just sight seeing for soccermoms and literally free loot. Legendary gear should be legendary not the new "epic" as epics have essentially become "rares" since TBC. Only those who clear the highest level content deserve the best loot in the game; not some random lucky drop from critters or farming X/50 dogshits in "heroic/normal" raids praying for drops for months on end.

[Glorious Leader]

But this thread is still filled with people clamoring for a defined non RNG upgrade path. Which is AP?

It is but its inconsistent with the other designs in the game and is unecessary. If you put gear on a vendor it is functionallt the same. I suspect class fantasy was the intent behind ap. Lvling is also deterministic and if theirs one thing people come back for every single time....

[Propainn]

But this thread is still filled with people clamoring for a defined non RNG upgrade path. Which is AP?

Until the 34+ flat dmg increase talents, every grindy talent I get from AP is worth far, far less than a 5 ilvl upgrade on anything. You're not wrong, but grinding AP is hardly an engaging method of character progression, and it doesn't feel good at all.

Each artifact level is more of an inconvenience at this point, along the lines of: "Oh, dammit, now I have to jump back to Skyhold to get this 1% heal on MS, or 2% extra cleave damage. Hold on guys." I mean, they removed a lot of the "filler" talents to head up their pruning crusade, and then they slap a bunch of boring/borderline useless talents onto the artifact weapons. Cool, I guess, but most weapons are "done" by level 20 or so.

Yes, it is technically character progression, but it makes farming WQ mandatory, it's a forced grind, and way less rewarding than even a minor RNG win. That said, I would hate for them to make the game even worse by creating some form of RNG with AP.

[Gaidax]

I think it's way too much, what's worse, as a raider you suddenly now need to bloody farm your tits off hoping for legendaries or lucky items for progression sake.

I mean, in my guild I got some nolifers who are like 5 or more ilvls on me and better itemized simply because they bloody run M+2/3 nonstop for AP and lucky warforged and shit, and I just don't see how I, a guy with a job and in my 30s can compete with that shit, as where previously I could gear just fine by raiding without having to LIVE in WoW and play the game satisfied while having actual life.

[vaestmannaeyjar]

The RNG is needed as a business standpoint, to avoid having people calculate how long it will take to achieve item/recipe/whatever X... after which they stop paying and wait for a content patch. The game design is overall to keep people paying 12 months in the year if at all possible. Hence RNG and time-gated content, legendary quests requiring you to farm a gazillion tokens, etc. It's all about the bottom line directing the game development. They don't want people to be able to get everything by just playing 4 months in a year.

[Glorious Leader]

Until the 34+ flat dmg increase talents, every grindy talent I get from AP is worth far, far less than a 5 ilvl upgrade on anything. You're not wrong, but grinding AP is hardly an engaging method of character progression, and it doesn't feel good at all.

Each artifact level is more of an inconvenience at this point, along the lines of: "Oh, dammit, now I have to jump back to Skyhold to get this 1% heal on MS, or 2% extra cleave damage. Hold on guys." I mean, they removed a lot of the "filler" talents to head up their pruning crusade, and then they slap a bunch of boring/borderline useless talents onto the artifact weapons. Cool, I guess, but most weapons are "done" by level 20 or so.

Yes, it is technically character progression, but it makes farming WQ mandatory, it's a forced grind, and way less rewarding than even a minor RNG win. That said, I would hate for them to make the game even worse by creating some form of RNG with AP.

Heres the thing. For non raiders who.got the progression shaft in wod it feel a million times better.

[Maudib]

You are saying that mythic dungeons doesnt drop 840, they drop 800 and you need luck to have 840??

Lucky ppl gets more than others, unlucky ppl doesnt get less than they should.

Glass half full, half empty... you cannot have one without the other.

RNG to this level, in an MMO, is very unrewarding. A discouraging factor is just bad.

[shonist]

Glass half full, half empty... you cannot have one without the other.

RNG to this level, in an MMO, is very unrewarding. A discouraging factor is just bad.

how can i be enjoying it without issues? When i get something upgraded its "NICE", if not... its the same...

[Seranthor]

The RNG is needed as a business standpoint, to avoid having people calculate how long it will take to achieve item/recipe/whatever X... after which they stop paying and wait for a content patch. The game design is overall to keep people paying 12 months in the year if at all possible. Hence RNG and time-gated content, legendary quests requiring you to farm a gazillion tokens, etc. It's all about the bottom line directing the game development. They don't want people to be able to get everything by just playing 4 months in a year.

And when people get to the point where they feel that the reward for their time investment isn't worth it then they give up and walk away, often times they dont look back.

[Reyll]

If you want to experience a game with a shitfest of RNG that absolutely screws you over and has no bad luck protection, go play FFXIV and then compare it to WoW and you will see how good WoW has it.

I think it's way too much, what's worse, as a raider you suddenly now need to bloody farm your tits off hoping for legendaries or lucky items for progression sake.

I mean, in my guild I got some nolifers who are like 5 or more ilvls on me and better itemized simply because they bloody run M+2/3 nonstop for AP and lucky warforged and shit, and I just don't see how I, a guy with a job and in my 30s can compete with that shit, as where previously I could gear just fine by raiding without having to LIVE in WoW and play the game satisfied while having actual life.

No, you don't. You are 5 ilvls under them, but you call them 'nolifers'. Sorry, but 5 item levels is not going to make or break your raid and are you really going to complain about that small of a gap between you who has a 'life' and these so called 'nolifers'? There will always be people who can dedicate more time to something than you can. If two people began playing instruments at the same time and you dedicated 2 hours a day to it and the other guy dedicated 12 hours to it, who might be better at the end of the week? It could be him because he has spent a lot more time on it than you because you chose to do other things in the day and "have a life." However, it /could/ be you if you pick it up easier than he does (getting a random legendary from an emissary box that literally takes 10 minutes to complete), but that probably won't be the case.

If your raid is wiping or having problems, I sincerely doubt it is because you are 5 ilvls under some people who can dedicate more time to the game than you can. It sounds like you are 'competing' just fine.

[goblingirl]

To me, the biggest problem with ALL of it is that there is either no RNG protection (as there never has been in WoW before), or they coded one and it's broken. Have they ever even said that the RNG protection applies to anything other than legendaries this expansion?

Because I am getting sick to death of farming herbs trying to get rank 3, and giving Nomi food to burn. I've started backing off on both. I gathering 1 stack of each herb type per day in hopes of grinding my way to those rank 3 skills, but a few days ago I stopped doing them all, now I only do 1 or 2 stacks a day total of whichever one I feel like picking (usually fjarnkskaggl and roses). I only pick dreamleaf, aethril and foxflower if I stumble across them doing the daily worlds. And Nomi.... when the raw food from quest kills runs out I will stop bothering. It's just not fun to give him stuff when the last recipe I got from him was 2 weeks ago. I'm certainly not going to go out to grind raw mats just to feed him. I will live with my rank 2 recipes.

I have yet to get a single piece of equippable gear from a Mythic dungeon. Not kidding. Every mythic drop I have gotten has been 840 and I have that or better from questing. Mostly I just get gold and AP upgrade tokens though.

I have only equipped 1 new item over the last two weeks, and it was from a world quest, an 845 epic replacing an 835 blue that I cannot for the life of me seem to get an upgrade for.

And I'm done running M+ for the week because the keystone I last got is a +5 Court of Stars which nobody in their right mind wants to do. Including me.

Honestly I really hate the whole warforged/titanforged garbage. It's a trap, as Admiral Akbar would say. It teases you into rerunning quests and content a thousand thousand times hoping that you will be the guy that gets something that's worthwhile to equip. All I'm actually getting is a lot of chaos crystals. But if you don't govern yourself, you can fall into the trap of playing way too many hours in hopes of winning that RNG lottery within an RNG lottery within an RNG lottery. It's not healthy.

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And when people get to the point where they feel that the reward for their time investment isn't worth it then they give up and walk away, often times they dont look back.

QFT. I started considering taking a break until Nighthold last night... this just feels like a treadmill to nowheresville right now. I'm not convinced they have resolved the legendary bug. I believe that the chances of getting rank 3 in gathering professions is either bugged or simply set far, far too low. Same with Nomi. I've been treading water in all of these areas for a couple of weeks now and every day I just get a little more discouraged and it feels a little more futile.

And don't get me started on that fox mount that nearly everyone I know already has - I am now 1 day away from Exalted Nightfallen and that quest item will not drop for me no way, no how. I will be doing Nightfallen emissary days and that gods-be-damned scenario until the end of the expansion, given my sad luck.

ETA: I'm even stuck on the Fangs hidden appearance. I got the Hinterlands screech two weeks ago, clicked the stone, and nothing since. EVery day I log in after reset and port to the Dreamway, and every day I am... sigh.

There's just so many ways RNG is frustrating right now. There's simply too much of it. We've all come to expect it in raid drops, but it's everywhere now, even simple work orders for cooking.

[justinhalfout]

The RNG is needed as a business standpoint, to avoid having people calculate how long it will take to achieve item/recipe/whatever X... after which they stop paying and wait for a content patch. The game design is overall to keep people paying 12 months in the year if at all possible. Hence RNG and time-gated content, legendary quests requiring you to farm a gazillion tokens, etc. It's all about the bottom line directing the game development. They don't want people to be able to get everything by just playing 4 months in a year.

From a personal point of view they failed hard there since for the first time in years it edged me to unsub, can't speak for others but i'm sure there's a few people out there not best pleased by this rng shitfest.

[Propainn]

Heres the thing. For non raiders who.got the progression shaft in wod it feel a million times better.

I agree that the raid or die model isn't a good one, but what about the large population of those non raiders who fall on the wrong side of the bellcurve? They get shafted more than anyone by this system.

[goblingirl]

The RNG is needed as a business standpoint, to avoid having people calculate how long it will take to achieve item/recipe/whatever X... after which they stop paying and wait for a content patch. The game design is overall to keep people paying 12 months in the year if at all possible. Hence RNG and time-gated content, legendary quests requiring you to farm a gazillion tokens, etc. It's all about the bottom line directing the game development. They don't want people to be able to get everything by just playing 4 months in a year.

The way to handle that is more frequent content patches - monthly, even - rather than making the chances to advance your character miniscule. The former gives players something to look forward to. The latter gives players an excuse to OD on grindy content and then give up in frustration because they are tired of that particular repetitive behavior (whether it's 10-15 mythic dungeons a day or a pile of garrison chores), and unsubscribe because they are bored and know the next patch won't be out for 4-6 months.

[Seranthor]

From a personal point of view they failed hard there since for the first time in years it edged me to unsub, can't speak for others but i'm sure there's a few people out there not best pleased by this rng shitfest.

Personally, I have 2 accounts... only one of them I have bought Legion for... my current frustration and disgust gives me zero reason to continue paying for my 2nd account, nor does it give me reason to buy Legion for it.

[Glorious Leader]

I agree that the raid or die model isn't a good one, but what about the large population of those non raiders who fall on the wrong side of the bellcurve? They get shafted more than anyone by this system.

How so? They get ap rewards from world content.