[Legion] Brusalk's Destro Guide

[Deleted]

Saying "I don't know much about Wriggling but I think Spiked Tongue is overvalued" isn't saying that it isn't better than sinew; it was a comment about spiked tongue. Most of what people have seen are based on sims, which I believe overvalue the trinket. It's not "out of thin air" to suggest that you won't be getting full use out of it in real situations, because it shows up less on your meters when you have to position yourself closer to the boss/target. Being at 20 yards isn't usually all that practical so if it's just "edging out" for him, that's something to consider. though, I imagine the difference is pretty negligible either way. Trinkets are in a very underwhelming place right now.

From what I could tell, the majority of progression locks were running 2x flat stat trinkes until they got plaguehive. So the idea would be to work towards that. And even now, the two most common trinkets on logs I'm seeing are research vial and plaguehive.

I'm just going by logs, which seem about as real-world as you can get, not sims.
Spiked Tongue seems to consistently be outperforming Wriggling, both on warlocks that have both equipped and when looking at what they contribute to outputwith just one.

I've only managed to get a Chronoshard and Stat stick myself (Albeit 850 and socketed, so I can't complain about that one), no raid drops or tongue, but everything I've looked at indicates that Tongue is outperforming Wriggling, usually by a pretty notable margin. Wouldn't be surprised if it was just a case of Tongue being tuned so high that even when you can't minmax it it's competitive / better than Sinew and when you can it's significantly so.

I don't think the passive stats are enough to offset the numbers I'm seeing, but I'm no mathmagician, so maybe my shallow trawling of logs isn't seeing something.

[Shimejii]

I've done an 11 so far personally, don't really see the point in taking rof dmg over incinerate. Especially when incinerate is a large chunk of your aoe as well as your st.

It depends on the dungeon and the tanks route of pulling, but ROF will do a nice amount of damage in most of those dungeons, esp EOA, DHT, and VOTW. Incin it does okay damage, but its the lowest per cast of all your spells (with shadowburn being close). Yes it is your most used spell, but ROF is still a great chunk of damage.

[Jondar]

I'm just going by logs, which seem about as real-world as you can get, not sims.
Spiked Tongue seems to consistently be outperforming Wriggling, both on warlocks that have both equipped and when looking at what they contribute to outputwith just one.

I've only managed to get a Chronoshard and Stat stick myself (Albeit 850 and socketed, so I can't complain about that one), no raid drops or tongue, but everything I've looked at indicates that Tongue is outperforming Wriggling, usually by a pretty notable margin. Wouldn't be surprised if it was just a case of Tongue being tuned so high that even when you can't minmax it it's competitive / better than Sinew and when you can it's significantly so.

I don't think the passive stats are enough to offset the numbers I'm seeing, but I'm no mathmagician, so maybe my shallow trawling of logs isn't seeing something.

Right. But sims are what increased the usage of Spiked Tongue because it resulted in many pre-raid BiS lists having it as the best trinket. But that's, as far as I know, only at max range. Which is a pretty rare condition to maintain 100% of the time on boss fights, let alone trash pulls. I don't mean to argue that it's better - I didn't bother with Wriggling - I just mean to point out that it might be worth pursuing other options if those are your only two.

[Baconeggcheese]

Yes it is your most used spell, but ROF is still a great chunk of damage.

Extremely situationally, as in when you have like 6+ targets. Incinerates objectively better to have since it isn't so extremely limited. The higher the dungeon you go the less you're able to pull.

That thought process for getting the RoF trait originated when they nerfed incinerate to 170% spellpower. When it was that weak it was so bad that the 9% to it was a total waste and you would never in your right mind take FnB. When they buffed it back up to 210 it once again made more sense to take incinerate.

[SpikeySquad]

Depends on your guild, if they're doing it right then elereth is a ST fight for us. You get 2 sets of adds iirc that both just get practically globaled, and the 3rd set you get from crossing the bridge is killed by people with feathers so any damage you do to those is wasted dps.

If the bigger spiders are up for 25-40 seconds that sounds like something your group is slightly struggling with. If that's true, it's definitely worth it! Wreak Havoc on one big spider, nuke another and then move WH back to the boss for the last one.

GoSac might be worth it for the groups of small spiders on Elerethe if you snipe shadowburns, but I haven't really tried it personally. For my group's setup (and because the legendary ties me to WH) I took Serv for extra boss damage and WH for extra add damage. Pretty sure this is not the end-all be-all answer though, so hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks both for the replies. Yeah it seems we are not doing it right so to speak. The spiders are up a silly long time though it doesn't seem to be killing the tank so that's something (of course there is "wasted" heals).

Both Destros did go WH/GoSac in the end. Still not sure it was the best choice (going compare the Demonic Power to Pet and Grimoire now) but yeah it's the fastest way to kill the spiders.

[Deleted]

Hey guys just a quick question regarding gear, at which point does item level outweigh priority stats ? Because at the moment I have a crit haste head at 845 and a 860 versatility mastery one and have been leaning towards the crit haste but I've had a few suggestions that a 15 ilev difference outweighs priority stats ?

Any help would be great

Thanks.

[penquinn]

Hey guys just a quick question regarding gear, at which point does item level outweigh priority stats ? Because at the moment I have a crit haste head at 845 and a 860 versatility mastery one and have been leaning towards the crit haste but I've had a few suggestions that a 15 ilev difference outweighs priority stats ?

Any help would be great

Thanks.

your priority stat is int

[Deleted]

Hey guys just a quick question regarding gear, at which point does item level outweigh priority stats ? Because at the moment I have a crit haste head at 845 and a 860 versatility mastery one and have been leaning towards the crit haste but I've had a few suggestions that a 15 ilev difference outweighs priority stats ?

Any help would be great

Thanks.

An advice for this kind of questions : Take the "Pawn" addon, configure it with the stat weight you want and it's gonna tell you which item is the best.
It's really helpful to quickly know which item is better or not.

The only problem is to find the good stat weight :
-take it from icyveins or from another source.
-sim your char from time to time

[Deleted]

An advice for this kind of questions : Take the "Pawn" addon, configure it with the stat weight you want and it's gonna tell you which item is the best.
It's really helpful to quickly know which item is better or not.

The only problem is to find the good stat weight :
-take it from icyveins or from another source.
-sim your char from time to time

Thanks I'll have a look at the addon later Tonight see what its saying

[Jaman]

Hey guys just a quick question regarding gear, at which point does item level outweigh priority stats ? Because at the moment I have a crit haste head at 845 and a 860 versatility mastery one and have been leaning towards the crit haste but I've had a few suggestions that a 15 ilev difference outweighs priority stats ?

Any help would be great

Thanks.

As someone else said, Intellect is your priority stat, not haste or crit. The 860 piece is better. If something is 5 item levels higher than better secondary stats may be better than the small intellect/item level increase: but even then the two items are probably going to be around even.

Necklaces and rings are an exception since they don't have any primary stats : but even then the secondary stats are closer than most people think and the higher item level piece might be better even if it doesn't have crit and haste.

[Deleted]

As someone else said, Intellect is your priority stat, not haste or crit. The 860 piece is better. If something is 5 item levels higher than better secondary stats may be better than the small intellect/item level increase: but even then the two items are probably going to be around even.

Necklaces and rings are an exception since they don't have any primary stats : but even then the secondary stats are closer than most people think and the higher item level piece might be better even if it doesn't have crit and haste.

True !

I often have that problem that I got a really good ring but with versatility or mastery instead of haste and since there is no int on those pieces I can't even swap them although I'd love to.

My haste is too low. I am at 22% and my mastery is at 70%. So if I put on all my highest ilvl stuff my haste would drop to 19% or something. Really sad that there is no reforging

[Duckz0rs]

True !

I often have that problem that I got a really good ring but with versatility or mastery instead of haste and since there is no int on those pieces I can't even swap them although I'd love to.

My haste is too low. I am at 22% and my mastery is at 70%. So if I put on all my highest ilvl stuff my haste would drop to 19% or something. Really sad that there is no reforging

I personally kind of gave in on that aspect. I was running around with 13% crit, 20% haste and 70% master/5% vers because of terrible itemization. Decided to bite the bullet and start crafting gear instead, item level be damned :\. It helps, but just takes forever...

[Deleted]

I personally kind of gave in on that aspect. I was running around with 13% crit, 20% haste and 70% master/5% vers because of terrible itemization. Decided to bite the bullet and start crafting gear instead, item level be damned :\. It helps, but just takes forever...

I can feel you :3

Though I decided against it, because basically something can drop in every dungeon, raid or even worldQ that is better than crafted gear. I was thinking about getting the haste cloak, haste ring and darkmoon trinket, but that is soooo much gold with the obliterum.

Haste is a fun stat and I would love to be at 30%, but right now it's not possible for me

[TKSaga]

So I was looking at the top performers for destro on several mythic bosses and I noticed something interesting.

Most of the warlocks parsing high are running 30%+ haste, <20% crit, but 50%+ Mastery.

Is there a reason for this? Is mastery somehow better than crit now? I cant imagine these warlocks accidentally forgetting to have above 20% crit.

[Baconeggcheese]

@TKSaga In the tuning pass they buffed everything affected by mastery and none of the things not affected by mastery. Which means mastery's value goes up, and then you look at the majority of encounters where an even larger portion of your dmg is coming from things that are affected by mastery, and mastery is stronger still.

But really tho I imagine it has nothing to do with purposefully getting that amount of each stat and everything to do with what gear is available right now and what people have just managed to get. I'm basically just wearing the highest ilvl pieces I've found while trying to favor haste and crit where possible and I'm at 22.63 crit, 29 haste, 47 mastery.

20% crit isn't a magic number or anything, and all 4 stats are practically equal value. So really you just favor things where you can and go for higher ilvl most of the time.

[Deleted]

Which stat weights are correct? Not's or Furty's?

FURTY
Intellect: 1.00
Haste: 0.90
Critical Strike: 0.82
Versatility: 0.70
Mastery: 0.66


vs

NOT:
Intellect: 1.00
Haste: 0.84
Critical Strike: 0.81
Versatility: 0.70
Mastery: 0.64

[Jondar]

As someone else said, Intellect is your priority stat, not haste or crit. The 860 piece is better. If something is 5 item levels higher than better secondary stats may be better than the small intellect/item level increase: but even then the two items are probably going to be around even.

Necklaces and rings are an exception since they don't have any primary stats : but even then the secondary stats are closer than most people think and the higher item level piece might be better even if it doesn't have crit and haste.

The golden rule about Necklaces and Rings are to always opt for the socket. I think a socket on those items is worth something like 25 iLvls, so an 835 with a socket is about as good as an 860. For PvE anyway.

[Deleted]

Which stat weights are correct? Not's or Furty's?

FURTY
Intellect: 1.00
Haste: 0.90
Critical Strike: 0.82
Versatility: 0.70
Mastery: 0.66


vs

NOT:
Intellect: 1.00
Haste: 0.84
Critical Strike: 0.81
Versatility: 0.70
Mastery: 0.64

Would love to know too =)

[Dwill]

Which stat weights are correct? Not's or Furty's?

FURTY
Intellect: 1.00
Haste: 0.90
Critical Strike: 0.82
Versatility: 0.70
Mastery: 0.66


vs

NOT:
Intellect: 1.00
Haste: 0.84
Critical Strike: 0.81
Versatility: 0.70
Mastery: 0.64

Would love to know too =)

Those are used mainly as a rule of thumb. Stats weights are dynamic,not static, which would explain why they are not the very same so you're better doing a simulation of yourself and then proceed from there.

[Deleted]

Those are used mainly as a rule of thumb. Stats weights are dynamic,not static, which would explain why they are not the very same so you're better doing a simulation of yourself and then proceed from there.

Will try, but I am really bad with complicated programs :S