WQ's cap at 835-840 gear(without titan/warforge) games raid or die again

[Jazzhands]

I'm 862, and don't have a single drop from raids. It's all M+ and WQs.

In fact, there are only like, 2 items in EN good for my class, literally the only place I can get good loot is WQs and M+.

[DarthMonk79]

Game is basically raid or die again. Progressing past ~855 ilvl without being a raider is nearly impossible without insane luck. Mythic+ doesn't drop much loot and you have to do +6 or higher to get guaranteed 855+ loot, while being pretty difficulty to do in 845-855 gear. To do higher level M+ you're basically going to have to be in raid gear and be a raider. Anyone who does mostly M+ and world quests will be ~855 ilvl at this point.

Meanwhile, heroic raids are dropping 865+ and mythic raids are 880+. Anyone raiding will be 860+ ilvl at this point. As time goes on, the gap will get even bigger.

This is why we're seeing a lot of threads like this:
"Flawed gearing system I'm stuck at 845" (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ck-at-845-ilvl)
"RNG brickwall" (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-RNG-Brickwall)

As more and more people progress and get to this "wall", it will become more apparent and wide spread. It will become more complained about more and more as more people reach this plataeu of gear.

Game is raid or die again. The devs of this game can't get over their outdated archaic raid or die obsession and are going to kill their game two expansions in a row by catering too much to raiders and not giving non-raiders proper character progression.

So if you're not a Raider why do you need gear above 855? I mean world bosses drop 860+. If you're not raiding all you're doing is dungeons, world quests and Suramar. There's no need to be in raid level gear. Go for rep, gold and Artifact Power at this point. There's no way you have 3+ artifacts maxed out... there's your point to strive for.. 4 if you're a druid

[Sansnom]

World quests are easy and should reward the loot they do, why the hell should it even come close to raid quality loot?

Partly the same reason why people raid. Character gear progression. I very doubt people raid the same instance over and over again. Or spam dungeon over and over again for fun. It is for the loot. WoW has already been about acquiring loot.

Whether that loot should be obtainable outside of raiding is a different question.

[BraveNewWorld]

What are you going to do with 855+ gear anyway if you are not going to raid?

[Stormspellz]

because the base ilvl won't go up over time...

[kary]

What are you going to do with 855+ gear anyway if you are not going to raid?

So they can complain that they have x ilvl gear and nothing to do and that the expansion is bad.

[Banquetto]

Probably because if the game is WOD again it will die again?
I dunno. Not being able to progress your character outside of raids or insane RNG luck is pretty bad and why WOD was a disaster.

Out of curiosity, can you remind me which era of WoW it was that raids did not provide gear significantly better than other areas of the game?

If anything, Legion is the least "raid or die" era I've yet seen, thanks to the (tiny) chance of any drop titanforging up to mythic raid quality.

[monkmastaeq]

yeah i got an 875 leg from breaking some mushrooms and killing some chick today, took maybe 3 mins

[Zantera]

Legion has been the most casual friendly expansion so far (in a good way) and we've gotten tons of things that earlier expansions could only dream of having, like WQs, 5-man dungeons that are competitive and can offer both challenges and good loot. World bosses on a weekly reset, and so on.

I just don't get the complaint, did you start playing WoW in Legion? Not to sound elitist but things used to be worse, MUCH worse. You could throw out "raid or die" back in TBC, WotLK or Cata, heck even up until (and including) WoD. There has never been a lot to do for casuals. Regular 5-man heroics (before Mythic) stopped giving upgrades after the first 2 weeks, meanwhile Mythic and Mythic+ can keep you going for a long time. Dailies were much worse than WQs because you maxed out the rep once, got maybe 1 gear reward from Exalted and then that was that. WQs however keep changing, rewards are constantly updating and with titanforged/warforged you can get lucky. Raids used to be for the serious raiders only, now we have a range of difficulties from LFR to Mythic.

I just don't get it, if Legion is THAT bad for a non-raider when it comes to gear progression, how did you play through the earlier expansions?

[Mysterymask]

>.>some of these people would complain about not being able to progress in Zelda without entering dungeons..

[lazorexplosion]

Do the hardest content get the best gear. How hard is that to understand?

Mythic 15+ is harder than mythic EN.

[giniyo]

arent you the guy who asked if this game was beta tested because you and your friend got rings from the mythic+ chest this week? holy shit dude...

also you can get the craziest gear right now without stepping a foot into EN... wait thats too much effort? too rng heavy? i give up, games dead youre right.

[Daedius]

Mythic raiders get a guaranteed chance of 665 minimum, and why shouldn't they? They're doing a lot harder content... That doesn't stop your gear from chancing a proc for 665+... people have had 875-895 from them WQ's...

[Deleted]

So, you ignore mythic + and you want to be able to keep up with raid gear without raiding...

Hmm... how about... you're not supposed to?

[ohshift]

So, what is it then...the game is raid or die or its catering too much to solo players (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...solo-players)?

Please make up your mind.

[giniyo]

So, what is it then...the game is raid or die or its catering too much to solo players (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...solo-players)?

Please make up your mind.

not sure if this guy is for real ...

[ShiyoKozuki]

So, what is it then...the game is raid or die or its catering too much to solo players (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...solo-players)?

Please make up your mind.

Nice personal attacks.
Any chance the moderation team can do their job properly and ban people for ad hominem and personal attacks? I'm getting sick of it.

[Joeydivision82]

Let's be real here, if you have time to sit around and look for a group for Mythic+ you have time to look for Emerald Nightmare On Normal, as it is only a few more people and it's stupid easy.

The game isn't "raid or die" it's "put in some effort or die" in regards to any aspect of the game, and it's gotten so easy to gear people practically just have to log in and idle to be in full Epic's.

If you want instant gratification, I heard Clash of Clans is looking for some more players.

[kary]

Nice personal attacks.
Any chance the moderation team can do their job properly and ban people for ad hominem and personal attacks? I'm getting sick of it.

how tf is that a personal attack?

[Joeydivision82]

Nice personal attacks.
Any chance the moderation team can do their job properly and ban people for ad hominem and personal attacks? I'm getting sick of it.

This isn't even remotely close to a "personal attack" you just got caught whining and playing two sides. This post us literally 100% contradicted the other post you started.