Why did Blizzard take Guard from Brewmasters and give Ignore Pain to Warriors?

[Siphonfilter20]

Blizzard removed Guard from Brewmaster monks because they didn't like us hiding behind it... and gave Ignore pain to warriors

Currently, this is what tanking classes look like

Heroic



Mythic



Mythic HFC (WoD version) for comparison



I'm sick and tired of hearing "Wow, a brewmaster" in groups I am in.



Wonder why the Spec is so under represented? Be right back, Rolling Warrior tanking master race at least they get a "Guard"

[TheWindWalker]

You should also ask why Vengeance DH is basically Blood DK from 6.2m down to even the constant death strike usage being tied to attack power rather than damage taken, and then went and redesigned Blood DK to something more reminiscent of their old form.

Or why Paladins and Bears now also have "heal yourself for [X]% of damage taken"-ish spells as part of their basic toolkit.

Or why Brewmasters somehow forgot how to Parry.

[Siphonfilter20]

Taken from Reddit post

"Blizzard please, for the 200 or so of us who still actually attempt to play Brewmaster Monk, could you throw is a frigging bone or something?

We're the most difficult to play tank spec in the game by a considerable margin and also mathematically the weakest by a considerable margin. This is a deadly combo that will quickly lead to the extinction of Brewmasters on two fronts: one, because no one wants to play like a goddamn fighter pilot to be less effective than a Warrior who knows how to press the "Ignore Pain" button, and two, because people will stop playing a spec if they can't get accepted into groups or serious raid guilds due to the spec being broken.

Think I'm exaggerating? Brewmaster is 3% of the tank parsing on Heroic Emerald Nightmare right now. For each single Brewmaster there's like 12 Prot Warriors alone. How did we get to this dark place, Blizzard? It baffles me that you would remove Guard because "tanks getting an absorption shield is bad mechanic design" and then turn right around and give Warriors an ultimate Super-Guard that shields for way more than Guard ever did but with no cooldown to it.

Personal vengeance aside, it is criminal to me that there were no buffs to Brewmaster in the recent balance tuning, nor are any being considered in the future. The 7.1 PTR changes right now have nothing for Brewmaster Monk except Crackling Jade Lightning having a energy cost added to it. Because that's what we need right, a nerf?

Blizzard, if your intention is for Brewmaster to not exist anymore you have much more direct methods available to you. You could just remove us from the game entirely and replace us with something else, like how you removed Discipline Priests and replaced them with Chloromancers. If this is what you are trying to do you should at least tell us and I will abandon my character altogether.

However, if your intention is NOT for Brewmaster to disappear from the game, then you need to buff us. You need to buff us a lot. What to buff, you might ask? Go read the Monk forums on your own website, there are tons of legitimate non-angry constructive suggestions across multiple hundred-page threads such as making Stagger tick slower, increasing brew recharge, making Elusive Brawler baseline, etc.

Please, Blizzard, I love this spec, I love the playstyle and theme, but right now I'm pretty much only allowed to play Windwalker / Mistweaver because people will NOT accept a Brewmaster into Mythic+ keystone runs and I don't blame them. I swear, I will get on my hands and knees and BEG for buffs to my beloved spec if that's what needs to happen here. But love for a theme and play-style can only carry me through so many dark places, and if something doesn't happen soon, I'm rerolling Prot Warrior, as the vast majority of former-Brewmasters already have."

Really sums up how most Brewmasters feel right now, while they level a warrior.

[Tribs]

You outline a fair and puzzling conflict.
I don't think anyone has access to a real answer.
Check hotfix notes later today to see the details of Ignore Pain's nerf however.

[Deleted]

You should also ask why Vengeance DH is basically Blood DK from 6.2m down to even the constant death strike usage being tied to attack power rather than damage taken, and then went and redesigned Blood DK to something more reminiscent of their old form.

Or why Paladins and Bears now also have "heal yourself for [X]% of damage taken"-ish spells as part of their basic toolkit.

Or why Brewmasters somehow forgot how to Parry.

Paladins have a heal based on their damage taken? Could've sworn it was healing a certain percentage of missing health

[Elbob]

Don't be in too much of a hurry, they plan on buffing BM and Prot is getting a 33% nerf on IP.

But more on topic: As uhg as this feels to say "Class fantasy". The drunken Brawler stagger theme is really good and def fits BM tanks but the implementation so far has been really poor. Where Prot warrior is suppose to be this sturdy shield tank. I think they are on point with class feels but just off on balance. I'm sorry you like BrM and it sucks right now.

Paladins have a heal based on their damage taken? Could've sworn it was healing a certain percentage of missing health

Pally heal is % missing health you are correct.

[Deleted]

I agree in that protection warriors shouldn't have an absorb shield, but just a ton of armor plus the ability to reflect direct spells with the shield. They should be an impenetrable cube of tungsten.

Warrior:

[Sierra85]

brewmasters have turned into a joke and its pretty embarrassing.

something must be done.

[Siphonfilter20]

I agree in that protection warriors shouldn't have an absorb shield, but just a ton of armor plus the ability to reflect direct spells with the shield. They should be an impenetrable cube of tungsten.

Warrior:

Yes... And brewmasters currently are

[Makorus]

Monk has ALWAYS been underrepresented though.

The main reason there actually were so many in HFC was because they were insanely strong and had a shit ton of utility compared to every other tank.

[skannerz22]

Blizzard removed Guard from Brewmaster monks because they didn't like us hiding behind it... and gave Ignore pain to warriors

Currently, this is what tanking classes look like

Heroic



Mythic



Mythic HFC (WoD version) for comparison



I'm sick and tired of hearing "Wow, a brewmaster" in groups I am in.



Wonder why the Spec is so under represented? Be right back, Rolling Warrior tanking master race at least they get a "Guard"

monks and paladins are suppose to heal them self between defensive cooldowns
that is how blizzard designed the class despite it not being how the majority play the class

blizzard sees it as warriors being unable to regularly heal them self so they gave them an absorb that should last them untill the next defensive cooldown
your stats are wrong for prot paladins
i got top heals in battleground by mostly healing my self if they did that in the raid then paladin should be much higher
monks can do the same
your heal is basically the same as absorbing 1 attack
you should be healing your self as much as a warrior can absorb with ignore pain
that's how the monk and paladin are designed
druids can't usually do it because they can only heal outside bearform which means less armour

if you start healing your self between defensive cooldowns than you will be surviving much better than that statistic you showed
but if you aren't healing your self then you might as well reroll warrior..
healing your self lets the main healers have more mana left over for long fights and it gives them more time to heal the rest of the group if you just healed your self giving them an extra 2 seconds to be able to click someone else

this is why paladins and monks have such high energy and mana despite most of the time it doesn't get used for attacks
we are suppose to be off healing people between cooldowns
there is even a pvp talent specifically for healing as prot paladin

[voidillusion]

Just out of curiosity, did you also complain in previous content when monks were godlike and prot warriors borderline useless?

[Pucek]

Just out of curiosity, did you also complain in previous content when monks were godlike and prot warriors borderline useless?

Could you please specify when was that?

[Hashcrypt]

You should feel happy now because of whiners like you, they took IP away from warriors.

[Deleted]

You should feel happy now because of whiners like you, they took IP away from warriors.

Whiners like me (main blood dk, off-tank spec BrM) don't want others nerfed but rather ours buffed. If nerfing warriors leads to a general re-think of tanking, so be it. It cannot be that Blizz drastically redesigns tanking, maiming blood dks while doing so, giving explanations as to how the "philosophy" of blood dk has to change but then introduce DHs which are basically old blood dks. Same with monks, as OP rightly states.

[Zigrifid]

Why did they took improved hamstring from warriors and gave it to the monks??

[Targom]

monks can do the same
your heal is basically the same as absorbing 1 attack
you should be healing your self as much as a warrior can absorb with ignore pain
that's how the monk and paladin are designed
druids can't usually do it because they can only heal outside bearform which means less armour

if you start healing your self between defensive cooldowns than you will be surviving much better than that statistic you showed
but if you aren't healing your self then you might as well reroll warrior..
healing your self lets the main healers have more mana left over for long fights and it gives them more time to heal the rest of the group if you just healed your self giving them an extra 2 seconds to be able to click someone else

this is why paladins and monks have such high energy and mana despite most of the time it doesn't get used for attacks
we are suppose to be off healing people between cooldowns
there is even a pvp talent specifically for healing as prot paladin

I can't tell if you're being legitimately serious about hardcasting a 1.5 second heal while tanking a raid boss. If you mean another heal, 15% of our health on a talent is not comparable to Ignore Pain and globes are RNG and not always available to top up before a big hit.

[Skaiz]

Could you please specify when was that?

Wasn't that around BRF?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Very disappointed to learn how weak they are, I wanted to make my first Monk to 110 a Brewmaster... Would they be better if guard was returned and the Ox statue made baseline again?

[Sixnalia]

Very disappointed to learn how weak they are, I wanted to make my first Monk to 110 a Brewmaster... Would they be better if guard was returned and the Ox statue made baseline again?

It's not as bad as it sounds. I've been playing mine quite a lot, ilv 848 currently. We are certainly rare, and healers don't understand how to heal us because of it. Many healers go oom trying to top my health off, but when I tell them to let me sit between 50-75% they'll sit at full mana during mythic 5 man runs.

We could use some buffs to make us a bit more effective, but we are far from unplayable. Our survivability only gets better as we lose health. And I normally like to pull 2-3 packs at a time, so being overwhelmed doesn't seem to be too bad.

Can't say much for raiding or mythic+ though. My guild normally has me heal those if we lack a healer. Otherwise I bring my main, a rogue.


As mentioned above, I'd love to see us maybe get the high parry chance back. Possibly make elusive brawler a weaker passive and have the talent either buff it or have a new one in its place. I currently run HT myself though.