WQ's cap at 835-840 gear(without titan/warforge) games raid or die again

[Deleted]

+7 drops 855 base
+9/10(or +8) are for 860-865
+8 isn't easy to do on non-raid gear.
Mythic is not a viable form of gearing on it's own.

That's bs... it's pretty much where 100% of my gear is from. It's also very doable without raid gear, I don't even have raid gear on me, because I outgeared what I kill or it simply won't drop (because the chance to get a useful item in EN is much lower than running Mythic+)

It's pretty much where more than half of the server population got it's gear from. The other half might not even play mythic+ dungeons.

In addition to that, getting warforged items is not "luck", it has a very high % chance.
Over the course of ~900 WQs and I don't know how many chests through M+ dungeons, I've seen the "upgrade arrows" pop up more often than not.

[mitre27]

Partly the same reason why people raid. Character gear progression. I very doubt people raid the same instance over and over again. Or spam dungeon over and over again for fun. It is for the loot. WoW has already been about acquiring loot.

Whether that loot should be obtainable outside of raiding is a different question.

It should be obtainable and is obtainable, the fact that you can get world boss loot and have the 840 WQ items titanforge is already enough for the casual solo content honestly.

[borisshayo]

I dunno, to have a reason to play the damn game? To have a reason to log onto the game? HELLO?
Did you play WOD?

The reason anyone should play the game is because they actually enjoy doing the content, not because of some arbitrary number nonsense. MMO players are sick freaks.

[Deleted]

It's pitched correctly.
You shouldn't expect normal/heroic raid quality gear from clicking on 10 squirrels.

[dakalro]

To be honest at the moment if you get 850 in every slot you're pretty much set for any content including starting heroic raiding. You're not going to +10 in a PUG but you could in an organized group. I can do any WQ pretty much solo, do well in Mythics and M+ and pretty sure I would do decently in Heroic EN if I had the time to play a couple of hours continuously.

I do not see a use for solo / group content below M+7 content to reward better gear since you don't need it. The current ilvl is better relative to world monsters than any other expansion before, it doesn't feel like you're crawling when questing, and that means gear is good.

[ShiyoKozuki]

To be honest at the moment if you get 850 in every slot you're pretty much set for any content including starting heroic raiding. You're not going to +10 in a PUG but you could in an organized group. I can do any WQ pretty much solo, do well in Mythics and M+ and pretty sure I would do decently in Heroic EN if I had the time to play a couple of hours continuously.

I do not see a use for solo / group content below M+7 content to reward better gear since you don't need it. The current ilvl is better relative to world monsters than any other expansion before, it doesn't feel like you're crawling when questing, and that means gear is good.

After afking in ashran for a day you were high enough ilvl to do any content in WOD too.
That was bad, as you had nothing left to do to progress your character. You could even do mythics for chance at warforging, but that was too RNG for anyone to care enough.

[Deleted]

if you dont raid you are at massive disadvantage to other people who do. If they have 860-880 gear and you are 850 they will do M+ 7 and more while you will do max 6. Sot hey will get even better gear than you.

Yeah system is heavily cattered towards raiders. YES. But we knew it will end like this . We knew it all. Legion was fine up to opening of M+. Raiders complained they capped WQ gear and simply we are going back to WoD again. This is how Blizzard wants shit to happen so buckle up and find a raiding guild Clear that Heroic and be happy again.

[faithbane]

<<<Breaking news>>>

to get high ilvl gear, you need to do harder content.. who knew? more updates on this at evening news!

You can get higher ilvl then lfr gear by collecting nuts and kicking fish with a chance to roll up to 895 and there is a chance to get legendaries from emissary boxes and heroic bosses. what is enough for you exactly?

[Dehdamned]

I'm having a really hard time following the "You don't need higher ilvl as non-raider"-argument.

Advocates of this are basically saying they are totally fine with the last boss in a dungeon / raid to NOT drop any gear. Or any boss/difficulty you/your party has allready cleared.
Yeah right...

[Super Kami Dende]

You have to raid to get easier accessibility to the best gear?

Holy shit! It's as if that is how this game has been for 12 years!

[ShiyoKozuki]

if you dont raid you are at massive disadvantage to other people who do. If they have 860-880 gear and you are 850 they will do M+ 7 and more while you will do max 6. Sot hey will get even better gear than you.

Yeah system is heavily cattered towards raiders. YES. But we knew it will end like this . We knew it all. Legion was fine up to opening of M+. Raiders complained they capped WQ gear and simply we are going back to WoD again. This is how Blizzard wants shit to happen so buckle up and find a raiding guild Clear that Heroic and be happy again.

Yeah, legion was basically so good and amazing until they released raids. Once raids were released, the entire expansion fell apart.
Most of my friends quit after raids release because they didn't want to raid and knew they'd be far behind if they didn't raid. Even PVPers get MASSIVELY screwed if they don't raid.

[Deleted]

Yeah, legion was basically so good and amazing until they released raids. Once raids were released, the entire expansion fell apart.
Most of my friends quit after raids release because they didn't want to raid and knew they'd be far behind if they didn't raid. Even PVPers get MASSIVELY screwed if they don't raid.

I didn't say this, i said Raids are fun and EN is super easy mode. All you have to do i find a guild who raids 1-2 a week and cleared EN 7/7 Normal with 3/7 Heroic apply and join their roster and get loot. I cleared 7/7 Normal with pug This isn't hard. But i can agree on one thing PVPers were fucked like a hot potato haha god damn those guys

[Deleted]

Game is basically raid or die again. Progressing past ~855 ilvl without being a raider is nearly impossible without insane luck. Mythic+ doesn't drop much loot and you have to do +6 or higher to get guaranteed 855+ loot, while being pretty difficulty to do in 845-855 gear. To do higher level M+ you're basically going to have to be in raid gear and be a raider. Anyone who does mostly M+ and world quests will be ~855 ilvl at this point.

Meanwhile, heroic raids are dropping 865+ and mythic raids are 880+. Anyone raiding will be 860+ ilvl at this point. As time goes on, the gap will get even bigger.

This is why we're seeing a lot of threads like this:
"Flawed gearing system I'm stuck at 845" (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ck-at-845-ilvl)
"RNG brickwall" (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-RNG-Brickwall)

As more and more people progress and get to this "wall", it will become more apparent and wide spread. It will become more complained about more and more as more people reach this plataeu of gear.

Game is raid or die again. The devs of this game can't get over their outdated archaic raid or die obsession and are going to kill their game two expansions in a row by catering too much to raiders and not giving non-raiders proper character progression.
Mythic +7 gives 855 BASE items.
Mythic +7 is as hard as heroic EN, perhaps harder to beat timer on in certain dungeons.

Game does not reward you for doing difficult content, unless said content is raids.
The devs are HEAVILY biased towards raiders.

You need to realize one thing. Image WQ's would give 880 loot. Mythic raid gear. Ok. Now, what would be different? You would still be done with WQ's cause you wouldn't get higher ilvl doing them at some point. You would come to these forums and bitch about how there's no way to further improve your character.

Right now, there are other ways to progress your character: Raids, Mythic+

You ask for more content like a little entitled BITCH and don't realize your suggestions would lead to LESS content in the game.

unsub already, the game is off better without people like you

[thilicen]

Enough with the entitled loot posts OP.

[Deleted]

Yeah, legion was basically so good and amazing until they released raids. Once raids were released, the entire expansion fell apart.
Most of my friends quit after raids release because they didn't want to raid and knew they'd be far behind if they didn't raid. Even PVPers get MASSIVELY screwed if they don't raid.

The game has always and will always be about raiding. It's the essence of WoW. Deal with it and quit. I'm pretty sure you got more serious problems to worry about in real life than about this game. Get some help and stop denying your real problems

[Deleted]

Imho OP is partially true, WQ max ilvl Cap should raise by 5 ilvl per week until 865 (from now this is 5 weeks or 6) because in Jan we will get to play NH and NH normal starts at 870 ilvl. I can agree this would be a good thing. And it wouldn't hurt anyone and wouldn't outdate any content. Also Guilds struggiling to do EN HC would have a small boost.

Now top end guilds are farming gear for NH there is no more race or anything like this

- - - Updated - - -

The game has always and will always be about raiding. It's the essence of WoW. Deal with it and quit. I'm pretty sure you got more serious problems to worry about in real life than about this game. Get some help and stop denying your real problems

"deal with it or quit" you are a cancer type of player and it is total BS what you said. Game is beyond the scope of "only raids". Srsly how do you get to this conclusion ? You have like 14 years and play the game for 8 months or less ? really ?

[dakalro]

After afking in ashran for a day you were high enough ilvl to do any content in WOD too.
That was bad, as you had nothing left to do to progress your character. You could even do mythics for chance at warforging, but that was too RNG for anyone to care enough.

You work on AP, you work on M+ (which you can probably do up to +10 or more even in 850 gear, with a decent group). And running Mythics for a chance of warforged/titanforged isn't so bad. Raiding also means you get an upgrade every other week, after the first reset. Once +2/3 boosting dies down and raiders get around 880 ilvl you'll have groups going for M+ without boosts.

At least for me it's fine for now. Yes I still feel driven to upgrade my gear (I've done high-end raiding - not very high end but have a few world top 20 heroic kills and many top 50 - for 8 years and took a 3 year break, and it's hard to get rid of the drive) but with a baby I can't stay at the PC for any kind of organized content longer than 1h or so (or I lose too much sleep time). So I settle for slow gearing, and at the moment this settling doesn't feel too bad.

[reauxmont]

Yeah, legion was basically so good and amazing until they released raids. Once raids were released, the entire expansion fell apart.
Most of my friends quit after raids release because they didn't want to raid and knew they'd be far behind if they didn't raid. Even PVPers get MASSIVELY screwed if they don't raid.

If you would be the new lead game designer, what would you change? How would you justify giving out loot of the same ilvl for WQs and for raiding, while keeping the huge commitment of raiders (if you're raiding in a guild, you'll have non-flexible planned raid times of probably 10-25 hrs/week) in mind? I wouldn't know of a proper way, other than removing raids entirely, which would certainly have a higher chance of killing wow than just leaving the system like it is.

Also, which expansion are you thinking of that did this in a different way?

[kamuimac]

Raiding game is raid or die..... so strange...... right.....

devs promised before legion launch that they will offer alternative to raiding - they lied and didnt deliver it - those who were responsible for thisk ind of decisions should be fired from blizzard imidiately

legion will fail even harder then wod - all we have to do is wait half of year till milion of youtube videos and threads will start

[Jewsco]

Oh look another complaint thread by the OP is that nice? What is he conplaining about to today? Oh he wants bis gear and has two options to get said gear raiding and/or mythics+ yet doesn't want to do either. So should the game just hand you bis gear? Or should you maybe work for it? Notice how their is another way to get said gear and it's called mythics+ or did you miss that? Why is OP allowed to make thread after thread like this?