"No means no!" but only for women

[Deleted]

Either don't have sex, use contraception, or have sex with someone you trust and know uses contraception.

Yes, abortion must be made illegal.

They have a term for people who don't take responsibility as parents, they're called deadbeats.

i call them women.
There is less than a million deadbeat dads in the US, there is like 80 million dead children.

They expect the rest of the population to contribute to their kin because they didn't pull out,

That' does not actually work.

and feel they shouldn't be responsible because they made a poor decision.

Another great anti-abortion argument.

- - - Updated - - -

2) Sex is the signature on a contract that says, "I give up my rights to bodily autonomy, should a pregnancy be the consequence of this action."

I wasn't aware so many people had a problem with abortions.

[May90]

If you want equality, it's should be equality in ALL matters..

Are you advocating for copying female reproductive organs to males and male reproductive organs for females?! I'm all for it!

[Quibble]

Are you advocating for copying female reproductive organs to males and male reproductive organs for females?! I'm all for it!

Sure, if you go ahead with the research that will allow men to carry children too, then I will back you up..

But since this isn't currently possible, could you stop making stupid arguments..

This is about, how currently, our laws allow woman to enslave men for 18 years, because they suddenly, doing an unwanted pregnancy from protected sex, change their mind and want to carry the child to term..

Forcing someone to your choice, after you break the agreement that neither party wanted a child from the protected sex you had, is morally wrong.. It's down right despicable.

Men that have had protected sex with a woman, that suddenly change her mind and want to carry to term, should have the option to legally abort that child.. It was the womans choice to suddenly keep the child, and that choice should not be forced on anyone else.

[MatadorMedia]

Consenting to sex is also consenting to the consequences of that sexual encounter, which may involve child rearing or child support for the male.

[May90]

Sure, if you go ahead with the research that will allow men to carry children too, then I will back you up..

But since this isn't currently possible, could you stop making stupid arguments..

This is about, how currently, our laws allow woman to enslave men for 18 years, because they suddenly, doing an unwanted pregnancy from protected sex, change their mind and want to carry the child to term..

Forcing someone to your choice, after you break the agreement that neither party wanted a child from the protected sex you had, is morally wrong.. It's down right despicable.

Men that have had protected sex with a woman, that suddenly change her mind and want to carry to term, should have the option to legally abort that child.. It was the womans choice to suddenly keep the child, and that choice should not be forced on anyone else.

If you are so concerned with protection not working, then just sign a prenup...

[Dispraise]

I don't know how I've gotten this far in life without any of those evil, heartless womenfolk attacking me in some back alley and forcing me to become a father against my will. Maybe they all think I'm ugly? Or poor?

Or maybe I just don't have unprotected sex with women I barely know like a fucking moron.

[Dhrizzle]

Sure, if you go ahead with the research that will allow men to carry children too, then I will back you up..

But since this isn't currently possible, could you stop making stupid arguments..

This is about, how currently, our laws allow woman to enslave men for 18 years, because they suddenly, doing an unwanted pregnancy from protected sex, change their mind and want to carry the child to term..

Forcing someone to your choice, after you break the agreement that neither party wanted a child from the protected sex you had, is morally wrong.. It's down right despicable.

Men that have had protected sex with a woman, that suddenly change her mind and want to carry to term, should have the option to legally abort that child.. It was the womans choice to suddenly keep the child, and that choice should not be forced on anyone else.

Here's a solution to your problem. When you get with a lady, after they've consented to sex, pull out your camera-phone and ask them to declare that if the contraceptives fail they promise to get an abortion or raise the child without any support from you. Explain that you are worried she'll enslave you for 18 years because nature is sexist and biased against men.

I can pretty much guarantee that this will prevent any sort of problems with accidentally reproducing.

[Revi]

Consenting to sex is also consenting to the consequences of that sexual encounter, which may involve child rearing or child support for the male.

Not going to throw myself into this whole debate again, but that argument doesn't hold up as a support for any particular consequence that we have decided sex should have.

The first part is legally true, in that you are accountable for the consequences - but that is not a defense of the consequences that are legally attached. If tomorrow legislation attached a $1000 fine for extra-marital sex, the first part of what you said would still hold true, but it would not be a defense of the fine itself.

There's two parts to this:
#1: consensual sex is binding you to the legal consequences of that sex.
#2: the legal consequences that exist.

#1 is a logical necessity of how sex and our legal system works. #2 is purely a moral and practical decision, which is very debateable and is in constant change.
Defense of #1 does not equal a defense of #2.

Your argument could just as easily be copy-pasted into a defense of a ban on abortion, stoning of gays, prison for adulterers or whatever else. Because it doesn't touch on the consequences at all.

[Mehrunes]

If you are so concerned with protection not working, then just sign a prenup...

Other than preemptively agreeing on how custody will be set up in case of a divorce (which may have the enforcaebility of toilet paper in court) prenup protects against nothing in case of protection failure and isn't particularly relevant.

[THE Bigzoman]

No one is going to force anyone to have an abortion, we're talking about the difference between this choice:

"You'll have to choose between a safe medical procedure to terminate the pregnancy and a lifelong commitment to parenthood, where the responsibility for the child's well being and care rests entirely upon your shoulders."

and this choice:

"You'll have to choose between a safe medical procedure to terminate the pregnancy and the baby you've always wanted. Don't worry about the finances, they are tough but we the state are going to extort the man you slept with into paying a significant percentage of his earnings to you for the care of the baby using the threat of incarceration. And don't worry, if we can't extort it from the farther, we'll just extort everyone else via taxes to pick up the slack. And when your kids end up making the same shitty decision you did, it'll just be another expense the taxpayer will deal with, directly or indirectly. We're going to do that even if you raped him, even if you sexually assaulted him by tampering with his birth control, even if you stole his sperm from a used condom after he slept with someone else, even if you cheated on him and the baby isn't actually his. We'll take care of everything, you just focus on having that baby."

I felt compelled to fix this for you. It really tells the entire story.

[Laerrus]

like forcing men to become parents

Dude, you made the decision to fuck her. While yes, once your load leaves you, the ball is in her court as far as whether to carry the baby to full term... you could have easily said no to her in the first place and opted for VR porn and a pocket pussy.

[Espe]

Dude, you made the decision to fuck her. While yes, once your load leaves you, the ball is in her court as far as whether to carry the baby to full term... you could have easily said no to her in the first place and opted for VR porn and a pocket pussy.

But... but... that would take self awareness and personal responsibility. Sounds like wayyyy to much work for most mmoc genoters. Better to just keep women as chattel like the conservatives are always pining about.

[Deleted]

Or better yet just make sarcastic posts because you have zero argument.

I felt compelled to fix this for you. It really tells the entire story.

If people don't like paying these taxes then the law can get changed to either remove abortion or place equal rights so having unconsented pregnancy carry harsher penalties to discourages the situation we have now.

[Stelio Kontos]

I'm probably just gonna be seen as an idiot traditionalist, but being that I'm pro-life in my view of abortion, I believe if two people having sex leads to pregnancy, that both of them are responsible for raising that child.

But I know I don't live in a world where every individual has my viewpoint. We live in a world where men want to have all the good parts of sex with none of the responsibility, and same for women, they can just terminate their unborn child without a second thought.

So, I do think that if women are allowed an out, that men should be allowed one as well. Even if I believe either or both are shitty people for choosing that out.

[Azadina]

I'm probably just gonna be seen as an idiot traditionalist, but being that I'm pro-life in my view of abortion, I believe if two people having sex leads to pregnancy, that both of them are responsible for raising that child.

But I know I don't live in a world where every individual has my viewpoint. We live in a world where men want to have all the good parts of sex with none of the responsibility, and same for women, they can just terminate their unborn child without a second thought.

So, I do think that if women are allowed an out, that men should be allowed one as well. Even if I believe either or both are shitty people for choosing that out.

They are. How many times have you seen men paying 18 years of child support for an aborted child? None? The out for the woman, is an out for the man aswell.

[Stelio Kontos]

They are. How many times have you seen men paying 18 years of child support for an aborted child? None? The out for the woman, is an out for the man aswell.

But the man's out in that case only exists if the women takes hers. Not really fair.

[Azadina]

But the man's out in that case only exists if the women takes hers. Not really fair.

Tough luck. Biological difference between men and women isn't fair, and never will be. You don't see women here complaining about lower physical strength and lower metabolism. Should we?

[Stelio Kontos]

Tough luck. Biological difference between men and women isn't fair, and never will be. You don't see women here complaining about lower physical strength and lower metabolism. Should we?

If a woman has a right to terminate or bring to term an unborn child, I don't think it's unreasonable to allow a father to choose, with similar conditions, if he will financially keep the child. Personally I'd find him as repugnant for abandoning his child as I would a woman liquidating her unborn child, but that would be equitable.

[Azadina]

If a woman has a right to terminate or bring to term an unborn child, I don't think it's unreasonable to allow a father to choose, with similar conditions, if he will financially keep the child. Personally I'd find him as repugnant for abandoning his child as I would a woman liquidating her unborn child, but that would be equitable.

Then it's not unreasonable to ask for legislation about the advantages you have over me, which I named in last post. How will you legislate to make up for that unfairness? Should women be paid 20% more for same job by default to make up for it?

Or men just want to have their cake while eating it too?

[Stelio Kontos]

Then it's not unreasonable to ask for legislation about the advantages you have over me, which I named in last post. How will you legislate to make up for that unfairness? Should women be paid 20% more for same job by default to make up for it?

Or men just want to have their cake while eating it too?

Sure, when my superior upper body strength leaves you financially crippled for 18 years, make it happen.

I believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander. You don't. So we'll agree to disagree.