No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[-Joker-]

You're considering 'Legion' as a separate entity from World of Warcraft itself. The fact that any of us have paid and played WoW makes us customers. That makes us the voters. Legion changing game systems is akin to the government changing policies.

The analogy you present assumes that unsubbing is equal to not voting. It is actually more like having supported the losing side (in this case, wanting max-level flying). Unsubbing with intent (listing a reason) is a vote, one that carries a message of 'no confidence'. WoW isn't a 2-party system, so there is no choice in 'voting' other than to unsub with intent. It's not like we can place our money into servers that have flying.

And again. Still missing the point. Let me update the statement so it sinks in:

1. Purchase LEGION
2. Try LEGION
3. If dissatisfied, get refund for LEGION
4. Lodge complaint about quality of LEGION

You want:

1. Play without paying
2. Lodge complaint about product

I figured that part would be self-evident since every other expac has flight, save for a couple of TBC and MoP zones.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess not everyone can stomach the pro flying sensationalism quite as well.

I am all for constructive criticism and complaint, but I don't see any need to sit and bait fanatics. The thread exists to discuss the lack of flight with Legion and its speculative return.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly. Anyone who spent years playing WoW has invested a great deal of time and money into the game. Choosing to not purchase an expansion and cancelling a subscription because it is missing something the player needs in order to have fun is voting. If anyone should be criticized, it should be those who endlessly complain how bad the game is while continuing to give Blizzard money every month. Blizzard doesn't care if people are having fun if they keep paying a subscription fee every month no matter what.

But people who actually purchased, tried, and maybe even got a refund for Legion have the right to complain as a paying consumer. Trying the Beta and then not buying, at least for me, just means one less complaint to be heard.

[Eapoe]

Legion's world content is no longer relevant as of last week. Not even one month after launch and the world content is no longer relevant while sub system suffer with the removal of flight.

This is why flying binds and supports so many sub systems like archaeology, professions, and fishing which all promote world interactions that are not instanced focused like raids, dungeons and PVP.

Yep, 1 month in and already people have gotten max artifact power, legendary items, profession mats, class hall upgrades, and 880 gear...oh wait.

- - - Updated - - -

almost 5g to get to highmountain? no. instead of dala > azsuna > val'sha > highmountain route, this time i took dala > suramar crimson thicket > stormheim >highmountain, seem like a much better route.

game have tried hard to give me repair bills by putting my corpse on mountain slopes effectively forcing me to sickness res. (thank you CRZ lag) one of these days it may succeed and il be stuck as a ghost forever in a ghost world yelling even more to have flying and movement speed fixed. worst is those small areas where it IS activated because some blizz downie thought it was more needed here than anywhere else in the game.

Maybe while Blizzard works on increasing server response time and making CRZ flow smoother you could work on not falling off cliffs.

[Fenixdown]

It's not like we can place our money into servers that have flying.

Ya know, Blizzard should test that theory and see how right or wrong they really are. Make a select number of servers that allow flying at max level, and see how many people go there. I'd put pretty safe money on those servers being the only servers in the game with a queue line. But that would prove their "it ruins blah blah blah" mumbo jumbo completely wrong, so we know it'll never happen.

[Mafic]

Ya know, Blizzard should test that theory and see how right or wrong they really are. Make a select number of servers that allow flying at max level, and see how many people go there. I'd put pretty safe money on those servers being the only servers in the game with a queue line. But that would prove their "it ruins blah blah blah" mumbo jumbo completely wrong, so we know it'll never happen.

Blizzard doesn't do polling or such tests. They rather do a broad decision and see if there is enough of a backlash. Legion's mid expansion talk for flying to return is more A/B testing on Blizzard's part to see if they can make future expansions flight free and remove flying forever IMVHO.

Blizzard thought the A/B testing of WoD indicated they could proceed with future expansions with no flying forever as the early metrics showed WoD had more players return than previous expansion (eg MoP). This is why their metrics or reading of the tea leaves in WoD was incorrect as they presumed too much from their early metrics and not what players were saying a few months after patch 6.1. Players were saying flight is fun, and fun is a hard metric to measure as it is purely subjective with some tint of objectivity tied to it.

Legion is no different as Blizzard is confident that their A/B testing is working out based on player activity uptick, but by the three month mark Legion is going to suffer the same fate as WoD if they don't really listen to players regarding fun.

The true irony is Blizzard is privy to all these metrics and numbers to gauge the health of the game but they don't sit down and ask the players is this game still fun? Flying is fun to the majority of players, so based on that alone they should have resolved this issue long ago. But they are slaves to metrics showing they can cut corners, squeeze out more sub times, or even players interaction with a world designed to last one month max.

Fun > metrics

Flying is fun and isn't the best transportation method as that would be teleports.

[Idoru]

Yep, 1 month in and already people have gotten max artifact power, legendary items, profession mats, class hall upgrades, and 880 gear...oh wait.

One month in and I have done all zone quests, and 700 world quests. They all take place in areas I have already explored, and a lot (I didn't say all) of them are rehashed leveling quests.
I have seen the new world. I have experienced the exiting mystery of the new world. Now I just want to fly. Because I enjoy flying.

- - - Updated - - -

As have I, on 3 different characters, yet I am not lobbying in poor fashion for the implementation of flight.

Ah silly me, I forgot that I am not allowed to enjoy something that other people don't.

[rebecca191]

But people who actually purchased, tried, and maybe even got a refund for Legion have the right to complain as a paying consumer. Trying the Beta and then not buying, at least for me, just means one less complaint to be heard.

That is completely absurd. People aren't required to throw their money away in order to have a valid opinion on a design decision made to a game they already invested substantial time and money into over the years. Legion is not a brand new game. It is an update to a game that has been around for over a decade. I was a paying customer of Blizzard and World of Warcraft for many years and multiple expansions and would still be one today if not for their current stance on flying. Before the decisions about flying in WoD and Legion were made, I literally never unsubscribed for a game play reason over many years. I took a couple of breaks due to things going on in my life but never over a game design decision, until this. I am not required to throw my money away on a product I do not want in its current state just so I can open a ticket two days later asking for a refund I probably would not get. I was chosen to test the beta with whatever random process Blizzard uses, I played it, I gave my feedback, and I'm done giving Blizzard any additional money until the features that are needed for my personal enjoyment of the game are available again.

It's laughable that you criticize people who actually put their money where their mouth is, but don't say a word about the people on the official forums who complain and complain and complain about how much they hate WoW right now, but from their posting history, have clearly never unsubscribed despite months or longer of discontent with the game. When a player purchases Legion and is paying for a subscription, in Blizzard's eyes, that person has given their approval to the current game. Blizzard doesn't care how much fun the player is having as long as they keep giving Blizzard money.

- - - Updated - - -

ridiculous compromises can't replace the real thing. this thread have a way to big tendency at making up all sorts of excuses to keep flying out as long as it's circumvented by some cheating mechanic like the whistle.

The whistle honestly felt like cheating to me. It was one of the most immersion breaking things I've ever used in WoW and literally took maybe an hour of work at max level to get if you leveled by questing. But given how completely un-fun ground travel is for me, I used it because the alternative was worse. If I could have flown, for me there would be a real choice whether to use the whistle or not. Unless I needed to AFK for a bit or was in a rush to finish something before a daily reset, I'd likely use the flying mount and might stop for a pet battle or gathering. But since there was no flying I used that thing basically every 5 minutes between world quests for the two days it took to get 30 world quests for order campaign. It felt dumb, but I did it because the alternative felt dumber.

[bufferunderrun]

Peoples here have problem to accept that some see no fly a deal breaker, i personally think legion is an overall good xpack better than wod but some of the decisions blizzard made and certain stances on some arguments are deal breaker for me.

No Fly without an ETA.
Alt unfriendliness especially AK and reps not account bound (or a solid catch up system).
Mythic only dungeons especially Karazhan.
Autoflagging pvp when i chose a pve server to play.
Lfr super long delay (i think they changed it?)
Lfg/lfr hostile stance devs have taken

those are the thing that keep grating on my nerve and make me consider unsubbing even before 7.1 got released.

[Deleted]

Blizzard: No more flying, ever. We believe this is what is best for the game.
Players: We are not happy.
Blizzard: OK, flying is back.

In your infinite wisdom, please explain.

Stop confusing that with "we want flying at max lvl"
Most ppl do want flying, but are fine with flying coming later, and by that i dont mean in the last patch. 7.1 would be perfect.

- - - Updated - - -

Peoples here have problem to accept that some see no fly a deal breaker, i personally think legion is an overall good xpack better than wod but some of the decisions blizzard made and certain stances on some arguments are deal breaker for me.

No Fly without an ETA.
Alt unfriendliness especially AK and reps not account bound (or a solid catch up system).
Mythic only dungeons especially Karazhan.
Autoflagging pvp when i chose a pve server to play.
Lfr super long delay (i think they changed it?)
Lfg/lfr hostile stance devs have taken

those are the thing that keep grating on my nerve and make me consider unsubbing even before 7.1 got released.

What hostility have they taken against LFR/LFD?

[Idoru]

... and by that i dont mean in the last patch. 7.1 would be perfect.

And where have I ever claimed to want anything else?

[bufferunderrun]

What hostility have they taken against LFR/LFD?

they removed everything beside gear that still inferior to WQ, everytime someone rise the argument the answer is for a group, in general the seem not to accept that some peoples like doing it and won't switch to the manual pug.

[Eapoe]

One month in and I have done all zone quests, and 700 world quests. They all take place in areas I have already explored, and a lot (I didn't say all) of them are rehashed leveling quests.
I have seen the new world. I have experienced the exiting mystery of the new world. Now I just want to fly. Because I enjoy flying.

- - - Updated - - -



Ah silly me, I forgot that I am not allowed to enjoy something that other people don't.

Besides the point, when I stated that WQ's are still relevant.

[Deleted]

And where have I ever claimed to want anything else?

You havent, But as soon as someone says that this is a "vocal minority" it always comes back to when Blizzard changed there minds in wod.
PPL who want flying gift-wraped and granted is i minority, whilst ppl who want flying at some point sooner rather than later if i may add, is the majority.

[Idoru]

Peoples here have problem to accept that some see no fly a deal breaker, i personally think legion is an overall good xpack better than wod but some of the decisions blizzard made and certain stances on some arguments are deal breaker for me.

No Fly without an ETA.
Alt unfriendliness especially AK and reps not account bound (or a solid catch up system).
Mythic only dungeons especially Karazhan.
Autoflagging pvp when i chose a pve server to play.
Lfr super long delay (i think they changed it?)
Lfg/lfr hostile stance devs have taken

those are the thing that keep grating on my nerve and make me consider unsubbing even before 7.1 got released.

I'll just add world boss artifact appearance locked behind mythic only quests, mythic only faction quests and mythic only order hall mission quests.
Mythic players already have plenty of exclusive content and rewards. Why do they need more?

I really enjoyed playing the leveling game as an RPG, zone scaling has been my most wanted feature for 10 years.
But the only reason I'm playing right now is because I was gifted tokens. When they run out I'm done.

And their stance on flying coupled with their new-found hostility towards "match-making content" are the main reasons.

[Deleted]

[QUOTE=bufferunderrun;42659379]they removed everything beside gear that still inferior to WQ, everytime someone rise the argument the answer is for a group, in general the seem not to accept that some peoples like doing it and won't switch to the manual pug.[/QUOTE

Havent LFR/LFD always inferior gear to other groupe content? Dident you get tier sets back?

[bufferunderrun]

Havent LFR/LFD always inferior gear to other groupe content? Dident you get tier sets back?

lfr in ds and mop was inferior only to normal raiding (and world boss) and above it was at last on par (i don't remember with valor gear) that changed with timeless empowered item and beyond with baleful armor.

Now my point wasn't to derail the discussion i only want to show you and legion fan that different players have different priorities and different desires and thus the complains are different.

For me flying is a big issue first because i like it in all it's aspects and then because it is one of the wow most distinguish features, as today the number of mmo who allow fly like wow are almost non existent so there isn't an alternative.

[Vaelorian]

Without flight the artifact grind and gathering professions systems suffer greatly as the expansion progresses. The problem is there is no sense of adventure beyond the one month mark for world content.

That is why instanced content has started to open up a week ago for PVP and PVE. Blizzard knows it, Players know it. Pepperridge farm knows it. World content is considered irrelevant beyond the one month mark of an expansion and why gating flying to mid expansion does irreversible harm possibly to the longevity of the expansion.

Why do you assume that I don't know that this works like what you wrote for some players? It is not like this is the first expansion for me. But you know what... what I wrote works like that for ME. And you know who I truly care about?

While you may not know is that Blizzard ATTEMPTS (I am not saying they are succeeding) to make open world content last and for a part even replace raid gear. (insane luck required)

And your flight comment about prolonging content if we receive it further... this is the opinion of only so many players. Because flight in truth does not prolong content. But it might make it less tedious for some players. It in fact shortens the longevity, but postpones the threshold until it becomes TOO tedious to continue with activity X. So it shortens and prolongs at the same time
And no I am not saying I don't want flight in due course when the prerequisites are not TOO tedious to accomplish... then I will gladly fly by that time. Hopefully Blizzard will do that. If not... then I won't fly and won't care.

[Deleted]

pop·u·lar
adjective
1. liked, admired, or enjoyed by many people or by a particular person or group

Wildly simply means very. So something that is very popular.

Since you don't notice what i am talking about i mark your words. So you are claiming that "other games are wildly popular", while non of those games are even playing in the league of WoW even THOUGH they've lost a TON of people. The mistake i want to point out is that other games are popular, but not as much as you want to make it look like since WoW (the game i don't play myself right now) still is more and "wildlier" popular than any of the ones you listed. Probably even more than most of them you have listed combined.

Never said they are bad. But most of them ar far far far far away from being a major audience magnet, and more of a "back to the old days where MMORPGs have been a small niche" type of games.

[Deianeira]

It is going to be worse and that is by design. Most likely they had metrics that showed most players re-subbed to complete achievement late in the expansion cycle. So, to arm twist players to do it early they split it into parts and make it very long with rep grinds and raiding requirements.

But this will have the opposite effect as most players will wait it out or just washed their hands all together.

The harder they try to grasp water the easier it is to slip form their hands. That is what happening when they try to coax pro flyers into a box of what they define as "content". Forcing players to raid to unlock flying?

That is the white flag of admission from Blizzard that they have run out of ideas to with hold flying from the player base. This is Blizzard's last stand and if this fails like WoD's endeavor then maybe Blizzard goes into a better direction with flying in future expansions IMVHO.

- - - Updated - - -



Accept it isn't easily obtainable, hard to work on it if you are not actively scouring world quests daily/rep grinding.

And it is not just "world quests" alone. You need to complete a raid (downing Xavius) and then a serious of more quests and then even exalted status with Nightfallen.

There is nothing "easily" obtainable with Legion patchfinder part 1. It is designed to be difficult and to drop the number of participants (70% WoD flight pathfinder) down to below the 50% threshold.

Care to make a wager about that? Im pretty sure that the number will be about the same or even better for Legion.

And please dont say that downing Xavius is hard or unobtainable. Last i saw you could do it in LFR and even if you cant there will be pugs on normal long before they release the next part.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem is that if a player gives up on flying they also give up on their sub to the game as we saw happened in WoD. And there are many pro flyers like me still firmly in the no fly camp until flying is tangible and not some mystical way to be earned.

The vagueness with "mid expansion" for flying means that the wait can be up to a year or more. So, what do I lose as a player by waiting and calling Blizzard's bluff?

The fun thing is how do you know that the "masses" quit WOD becuase of flying? They probably had any number of reasons for quitting. But you guys always say well they quit because of flying in WOD and now they will do the same.

What you "feel" or have "heard/read" in a forumthread is in no way indicative of the reason for the losses of subs. Sure some people probably quit because of noflying but im sure just as many quit for completely different reasons for instance they felt they could not spare the time to play anymore OR they was loosing interest in the type of game or whatever.

[quras]

Ya know, Blizzard should test that theory and see how right or wrong they really are. Make a select number of servers that allow flying at max level, and see how many people go there. I'd put pretty safe money on those servers being the only servers in the game with a queue line. But that would prove their "it ruins blah blah blah" mumbo jumbo completely wrong, so we know it'll never happen.

I would love to see that particular experiment happen.

Servers that have no flying. No toys or gimmicks. Giving those players that love the ground so much that opportunity to do so.
Other servers that allow flying at max level like it used to be.

I wouldn't mind seeing the ability to transfer from no flying servers to flying servers cancelled as well. No option for that.

I'd love to see just how one really stacks up against the other with the wow populace as a whole. Like you, I have the feeling that a ground only server would be rather scarce of players.

and you're right. It will probably never happen. It just makes too much sense for blizzard to do it and it would likely blow holes all in their ground is somehow better theory in game design an development.

[Zalamander]

and you're right. It will probably never happen. It just makes too much sense for blizzard to do it and it would likely blow holes all in their ground is somehow better theory in game design an development.

Ofc it never happens. Those are just baseless false excuses while the real reason is that they don't implement flying because it takes extra time and cost in development. Would be an even greater waste of money for them to do it if only on some servers then.