[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

As for trinkets, there is a lot of debate, much of which centers on whether you want more dps or more survivability from your trinkets. Some favor the "we're tanks, defense is all that matters" approach, others favor the "if we're alive that's good enough, get as much dps as possible" approach. I personally think the latter is superior, but that does depend at least a little bit on your raid group, figure out what works best for you. Nothing wrong with hanging on to different trinkets and swapping out or experimenting to see what works best for you. A fully upgraded DMC:Immortaility is a decent survival choice, as is a decent ilvl Shivermaw trinket, those are the two that come to mind, if you want defensive trinkets. If you want something more offensive or multi-purpose, the Chrono Shard is a decent choice, as is any Strength/Haste or Strength/Versatility trinket.

Someone trying to be a voice of reason in forums?
I use one of each: DMC Immortality & Chrono Shard, both 850. As you suggest I collect trinkets, so I always have the option of going more DPS or more survival if either seems to be our problem on a given fight. Our guild is 3/7H atm and really it's all about mechanics at this point. So a balanced approach feels appropriate.

[avoidconfusion]

Is Grotesque Statue a decent trinket for Paladins? I think it is because of the proc and because Mastery helping with block and SotR ?

[blargh312]

Sorry if this has been asked already but is block chance actually bugged for Prot?

[Simulacrum]

Sorry if this has been asked already but is block chance actually bugged for Prot?

No. People just misunderstood how it all works out.

[Deleted]

So, I just started paladin tanking, and I'm having trouble finding some good weak auras. Basically, I want to know when my main rotation abilities are off CD in a way that I will notice. Any tips?>

http://pastebin.com/h5xDKxPU

You can set the order to whatever you want, they simply line up with my keybinds (AS = 1, BH = 2, J = 3, Consec = 4). I place mine between my own health bar and that of my target. At the moment I'm just using ElvUI with an actual bar there, but the weakauras serve the same purpose.

[Vergilius]

After reading few comments of "experts" here now i totally know why most people consider prot palies - trash ;D
It is beyond stupid to value Crit as 6.9 like "Pawn" does cuz in reality crit gives little to nothing to your survivability(That is the main thing Tank should care about - right?) - i.e it's "real" value is waaaay below other stats. Not going to talk about Tank-DPSers as in 99% cases "good" DPS on tank comes with survivability loss.

Also you shouldn't EVER gear protpally "by item lvl" - it doesn't work like that.

I've also seen "some pros" here calling DFM trinket useless ;D while in reality it is one of the best Tanking trinkets in the game@current patch, even if compared to 880+ ones Dunno if need to add anything else. Maybe my logs? Not going to talk about Ursoc and completely random Xavius but the rest.. Yeah.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking.../#metric=ehrps

Top percentile EHRPS, bottom 29th percentile damage done. Yeah I'm sure glad you came here to tell us all how to play

[sage]

Is Grotesque Statue a decent trinket for Paladins? I think it is because of the proc and because Mastery helping with block and SotR ?

It is, but not because of mastery. I'm pretty sure it's bugged, at least on ursoc. 100% uptime on 15 stacks (22% DR) seems... good.

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Top percentile EHRPS, bottom 29th percentile damage done. Yeah I'm sure glad you came here to tell us all how to play

Not to mention, on the logs he posted, he was eating 375 crit food? lol.

[Pu3Ho]

Top percentile EHRPS, bottom 29th percentile damage done. Yeah I'm sure glad you came here to tell us all how to play

Top percile EHPRS, but measuring DPS by Renferal is beyond stupid LUL - i will simply say that i had ~50% downtime on 2nd platform due to 2 times solo surviving Long pushback Aoe ability and running with my bare legs to boss after that..... u can check my HC kill on the very same Renferal - I have 81th percile in exactly same build/trinkets.

Honestly, i understand why some people here "angry" @me, but as a matter of fact - You sacrificing your survivability(sometimes in HUGE amounts) for a very little and neglectable damage boost which can only be justified on Ursoc and MAYBE(ofc not after "hotfix") on Ilgynoth. <<<<That is simply wrong from tanking perspective and overall common sense, but of course if your guilds have good healers who can carry you either way - i can't argue and can only be jealous cuz in my guild 3 of 5 healers are utter shit and it was hard for me to survive even with Top EHPRS LuL.

[Deleted]

EHRPS is a terrible metric for tank survivability. Just like almost every other metric ever thought of. It's impossible to quantify tanking.

Sims are useful for isolated scenarios and simulating phases of bosses, but there has never been a good sim for the same reason. You can't sim every fight and find an overall really strong build, it just doesn't happen.

As a side note, every top guild logs privately for several good reasons. So looking at rankings is also not the best thing to do when an instance first comes out. Because there are several good players that simply don't have logs.

I only ever use logs for uptimes, spell usages etc, but I actually hardly ever see myself scouring logs because I know when I make a mistake or how to correct it next time. It's a shame there isn't a good metric for tanks, but it is so conditional on the raid that there is just no point trying to look through logs and find the best tank based on logs. So please let's stop. Logs should be used to analyse CD usage and rotational abilities and to see if there is anything which can be done better, nothing else. If you want to focus on logs, play a dps spec and go to town with them.

[Deleted]

Top percile EHPRS, but measuring DPS by Renferal is beyond stupid LUL - i will simply say that i had ~50% downtime on 2nd platform due to 2 times solo surviving Long pushback Aoe ability and running with my bare legs to boss after that..... u can check my HC kill on the very same Renferal - I have 81th percile in exactly same build/trinkets.

Honestly, i understand why some people here "angry" @me, but as a matter of fact - You sacrificing your survivability(sometimes in HUGE amounts) for a very little and neglectable damage boost which can only be justified on Ursoc and MAYBE(ofc not after "hotfix") on Ilgynoth. <<<<That is simply wrong from tanking perspective and overall common sense, but of course if your guilds have good healers who can carry you either way - i can't argue and can only be jealous cuz in my guild 3 of 5 healers are utter shit and it was hard for me to survive even with Top EHPRS LuL.

How did you get 50% downtime on the 2nd platform, and why would that knock your damage output to such a degree? I still got 137k without prepotting (kill appeared out of nowhere after we got to 3rd platform without ever being there before) solo-soaking both Violent Winds. Blaming your lack of damage on healers isn't exactly conducive of improving as a player.

[saphka]

Any idea if the Unstable Arcanocrystal from Withered J'Im world boss is any good? Giant stat stick.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Any idea if the Unstable Arcanocrystal from Withered J'Im world boss is any good? Giant stat stick.

Compared to what? What are your other options? It has lots of stats and is certainly of some use, but it's all relative.

[Pu3Ho]

How did you get 50% downtime on the 2nd platform, and why would that knock your damage output to such a degree? I still got 137k without prepotting (kill appeared out of nowhere after we got to 3rd platform without ever being there before) solo-soaking both Violent Winds. Blaming your lack of damage on healers isn't exactly conducive of improving as a player.

"I sacrificed my damage to be better tank - what have you given?" Now Look : Your's KRSI - 1,540,640.0, Mine - 790,775.0. So, you telling me you traded ~50% survivability for ~30k DPS boost on boss which doesn't even require DPS? Nice decision making ;P

I would rather spend 1 day spamming Mythics+ with guildies and give them gear which drops to me to raise their DPS instead of making "such magnificent trades".

Not to mention that Sera which you used alone gives you around ~22-23k Dps Boost but in my case takes too much of survivability - Sera requires good amount of Haste to be effective and even then it's a survivability loss.

[Sepelio]

Pu3Ho dear god stop posting in here, KRSI means nothing, literally nothing to anyone with a brain.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

This one is very simple. It flashes "TAUNT" on the screen, as well as an audio cue, whenever your focus is hit with Overwhelm or Rend. It really makes the entire fight easier, since you don't have to pay any attention at all to your taunt swaps, and can instead focus on surviving and dps and moving the boss.

Shared your WA with our lead tank and we both used it on heroic Ursoc tonight. This made the fight SO much easier! Thank you very much for this excellent WA.

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All these passionate - and sometimes rude - debates over spec'ing for survival vs dps seem to leave out a key point, the same point that makes it difficult to sim for tanks - our performance is multi-dimensional and certainly doesn't happen in a vacuum. If you are unsure whether to take the offensive or defensive trinket/talent/artifact trait, discuss it with your healers, co-tank, and raid leader. The correct answer doesn't depend on some over-riding philosophy you're trying to champion in these forums; it depends on where your team is and what will help them most in taking the next step. Neither trinket nor talent choices are written in stone, so you can always swap if you're dying prematurely or the team is 20k dps short of success. For our team, 3/7H EN, avoiding premature tank death and extending the fights for more practice on the mechanics feels a lot more valuable than the extra dps I might contribute with a different trinket. But I did link my options in raid chat tonight, after my latest drop, and told them I'd be happy to equip which ever they felt would most help the team.

[Pu3Ho]

Pu3Ho dear god stop posting in here, KRSI means nothing, literally nothing to anyone with a brain.

Your opinion means nothing, literally nothing to any good player and what i'm doing is trying get people actually Play Tank in fucking tanking thread.

The thing which u've never done due to being arrogant trash(which was already confirmed one time in the past) and not knowing how to play Tank yourself.

So yeah, ty for reading my posts - maybe one day u'l learn something, except shitposting while being 100% useless to the "community".

[Sepelio]

By all accounts everything you're posting is you saying you're too shit at the class to play anything offensive, and as a result you've committed to believing krsi is a metric which anyone cares about, notice how no one ever comments on what you say and goes oh that makes sense.

You link someones krsi and laugh that its double yours, if he didn't die in the encounter, it means nothing, in fact, he did more dps than you, so if he didn't die in the encounter, regardless of having double your KRSI, he was of more value than you were.

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In fact, you've killed all of what 1 mythic boss, and you're gearing versatility>haste, your opinion is beyond invalid, you're terrible.

Actually, i may aswell go a step further than just calling you terrible. You're prattling on about how good a tank you are and how relevant your KRSI metric is, why exactly are you playing incorrectly then?

Looking at your most recent heroic xavius kill - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...uras&source=95

Whats going on with your sotr uptime? Better yet, whats going on with your consecrate uptime? You had numerous lengthy periods of recasting your sotr buff without consecrate up, thats a massive survival loss.

[Pu3Ho]

By all accounts everything you're posting is you saying you're too shit at the class to play anything offensive, and as a result you've committed to believing krsi is a metric which anyone cares about, notice how no one ever comments on what you say and goes oh that makes sense.

You link someones krsi and laugh that its double yours, if he didn't die in the encounter, it means nothing, in fact, he did more dps than you, so if he didn't die in the encounter, regardless of having double your KRSI, he was of more value than you were.

Are you stupid? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...05064/latest/# Look@DMG HC Logs - 4/7 bosses - ~80th percile W/O trading survivability for DPS at all.
You really think i can't play "offensive"? In mop 5.0 patch I was in top 15 Ppalies on every single boss which we killed and had Top1 @Garalon LUL.

But i was doing that ONLY cuz my guild required to do that and healers were able to carry. Nothing more, nothing less

[Sepelio]

Yea, and now you play badly and do no dps, so where exactly is the benefit of someone like you in the raid, you either have the knowledge of how to play correctly and don't, or you lack the knowledge. You're terrible.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...17008/latest/# 99th percentile without being at risk at all, so whats your point?

[Pu3Ho]

Yea, and now you play badly and do no dps, so where exactly is the benefit of someone like you in the raid, you either have the knowledge of how to play correctly and don't, or you lack the knowledge. You're terrible.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...17008/latest/# 99th percentile without being at risk at all, so whats your point?

And bottom 10-15th perciles on Survivability? Very nice. As i said - thank your healers for being good. Healers in my guild is fucking trash and it was kinda hard for me even with top EHPRS on Elereth LUL.