We have been heard!

[Deleted]

The only reason I dont start on good topic is because my English stinks :/

Really need someone that can make good use of words so we can follow up the ran/discussion/good feedback and make them move.

I dont think DPS is problem, at least not before mythic, but mobility for sure it is!

Anyway, we need to complain about anything, but we need do it and need to be done "yesterday"!

i do think dps is bit of problem , slow but hits hard when in range, stronger in undeath then in life. yet Basicly almost all living specs beat us
I wouldnt want pressences back unless theyre some kind of minor cd fpr ourself or aura for us and others around us.(then even if for certain fighst were our dmg is not great we atleats bring utlility.) like say for UH pressence :20sec gives you 10%haste and 10%movement speed for 12sec?
If id get them bakc like in wod id rather not have.

Also make glyphs affect our pet even if its a abomination!!!!!

[Darsithis]

Give us DRW on a 1 minute cooldown and call it a day!

[Grimdeeds]

We should flood the forum again guys... Please, someone start a topic and link here, so everybody can go there and complain like a little biotch. Workd for warriors, DH, locks... lets go guys!!!!!!!!

I would really encourage anyone that wants to help out, to visit this link and put in a word about how you feel about DK dps, tanking, and/or our lack of mobility.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...e=57#post-1140

I'll just say again what I've said before:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...y=4&dataset=99

What I take from that link is that essentially, the better the entire raid performs at their respective dps jobs, the worse Deathknights will look in comparison. I feel like no matter how hard I prepare and execute, as long as my teammates are doing the same, I can't compete really.

Doesn't seem to be any fight that DK's actually shine at, only some fights that we aren't terrible on.

Unholy single target is so poor, it's really depressing. Our cleave and aoe is solid but not enough, as the statistics above show.

Target switching and movement KILL my dps.

Blizzard if you are listening, DeathKnights cannot be this slow in mobility and this mediocre in damage at the same time. Please address.

[Kronik85]

My wishlist:

All Specs
-Baseline Purgatory
-AMS back down to 45 secs
-Give us back passive Movespeed

Blood
-Lower CD on DRW
-Stop persistent ticking effects from removing BS charges

Unholy
-Damage buffs
-Baseline Epidemic (Solidifies the theme as a master of disease)

Frost
-Damage buffs especially to Sindy

[Schizoide]

99th percentile is basically useless when talking about class balance, all it tells you is the theoretical maximum if all the stars line up in your favor, your RNG flips heads 100 times in a row, and you have top gear. That's interesting if you're trying to rank world bests, but beyond that not so much.

The default is 75th percentile for a reason-- that's where good players will perform. That performance level is substantially over the mean, and if you're hitting that you're doing well. It's a great point to talk about class balance.

Regarding Unholy single-target it is, again, middle of the pack.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...le=7&boss=1841

[sunbrother]

Its not very hard to do 90% parse. Maybe 95-99 has more ring, but 75% means you are making a lot of mistakes.

Even if we are middle of the road spec, we are the worst class in heroic, and worst specs in mythic.

[Deleted]

I would really encourage anyone that wants to help out, to visit this link and put in a word about how you feel about DK dps, tanking, and/or our lack of mobility.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...e=57#post-1140

I'll just say again what I've said before:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...y=4&dataset=99

What I take from that link is that essentially, the better the entire raid performs at their respective dps jobs, the worse Deathknights will look in comparison. I feel like no matter how hard I prepare and execute, as long as my teammates are doing the same, I can't compete really.

Doesn't seem to be any fight that DK's actually shine at, only some fights that we aren't terrible on.

Unholy single target is so poor, it's really depressing. Our cleave and aoe is solid but not enough, as the statistics above show.

Target switching and movement KILL my dps.

Blizzard if you are listening, DeathKnights cannot be this slow in mobility and this mediocre in damage at the same time. Please address.

That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

Overruled.

[Grimdeeds]

99th percentile is basically useless when talking about class balance, all it tells you is the theoretical maximum if all the stars line up in your favor, your RNG flips heads 100 times in a row, and you have top gear. That's interesting if you're trying to rank world bests, but beyond that not so much.

The default is 75th percentile for a reason-- that's where good players will perform. That performance level is substantially over the mean, and if you're hitting that you're doing well. It's a great point to talk about class balance.

Regarding Unholy single-target it is, again, middle of the pack.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...le=7&boss=1841

The issue I take with your argument is that I am not going for world bests. I'm not good enough for that. But I do go for 90 percentile and above, and so do the other players in my raid. It's nice to have that competition, I find it fun. Well, it's fun when you feel like you have the capacity to compete. I feel a bit hamstrung at the moment by tuning.

I think the point I was trying to make with linking the 99 percentile wasn't to say "that's where I live" but rather to show the trend that as all specs move closer to whatever their theoretical maximum is (I get that RNG will always play a role), then the further that Deathknights, of both dps specs, fall behind. As my teammates and I improve in execution, skill, and gear, then the better they seem to look in comparison. And that's where a lot of the fun of competing with friends starts to feel like a fixed race.

Hope that makes sense.

[Darsithis]

Stop persistent ticking effects from removing BS charges

Yeah it's ridiculous how the ticks just eat your shield so fast.

[Schizoide]

If you personally are going for 90th percentile, that's totally what you should be looking at when measuring your own performance. It just isn't what should be used to balance across classes and specs.

Also people saying it's easy-- it's certainly easy as frost. Getting 90th percentile as Unholy isn't trivial.

[sunbrother]

It's pretty trivial had 3-4 90-95% parses last night in H EN and we are just a casual 2 night guild, doing nothing special in particular, and without bracers.

I don't know if what you said about balancing around 75% is true at all, or if it's been confirmed by blizzard. If it were true, then any decent player should.provably give up on dk and reroll because we are a solid 15%+ behind top classes.

[frychikn]

so you've supposedly been heard, but they dont do any kind of follow up.

its crazy how blizzard gets away with so much smaller companies cant

[Grimdeeds]

If you personally are going for 90th percentile, that's totally what you should be looking at when measuring your own performance. It just isn't what should be used to balance across classes and specs.

Also people saying it's easy-- it's certainly easy as frost. Getting 90th percentile as Unholy isn't trivial.

I've been thinking on this. So it seems like the idea here is that it isn't possible to balance both at the middle and at the higher end. If that's true and they are mutually exclusive goals, that's disheartening because your link does indicate that the closer to the middle you go (even looked at the 50th percentile), then the better things look for Unholy (but not Frost).

I don't really have anything else to add other than like I said being a little disheartened with the idea.

[Deleted]

99th percentile is basically useless when talking about class balance, all it tells you is the theoretical maximum if all the stars line up in your favor, your RNG flips heads 100 times in a row, and you have top gear. That's interesting if you're trying to rank world bests, but beyond that not so much.

The default is 75th percentile for a reason-- that's where good players will perform. That performance level is substantially over the mean, and if you're hitting that you're doing well. It's a great point to talk about class balance.

Regarding Unholy single-target it is, again, middle of the pack.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...le=7&boss=1841

Except were not middle of the pack. Because aside from demon hunter, all classes have specs that perform better then unholy OR frost. So in reality, we are the worst class atm, because DH tanks are at least playable.

[Freedom]

At least our class hall isn't a joke and we have some lore behind us and our artifacts. Warriors may haven the tanks, and the deeps, but... VIKINGS! MADE UP LORE!

(If they're saying "We're looking at MM and hunter complaints" when MM is high on the charts, maybe they WILL actually touch DK mechanics as well? Because I know a lot of hunters don't like the new MM...)

[Schizoide]

Except were not middle of the pack. Because aside from demon hunter, all classes have specs that perform better then unholy OR frost. So in reality, we are the worst class atm, because DH tanks are at least playable.

That isn't true, ret and warriors are lower than Unholy.

Even if it was true, what actually matters is total performance and variance.

[Rothulean1]

As I've said multiple times in the general forums thread, unholy needs a big buff to Death Coil. Expecting all kinds of buffs and changes is probably unrealistic. But making Death Coil not feel horrible to use would be nice.

[Schizoide]

Feel is subjective, so sure. But the data doesn't support Unholy needing a buff to overall performance.

[sunbrother]

Arms warrior and ret are both superior, please see mythic logs

[Schizoide]

Mythic yes, heroic no. You can pick your poison. Unholy parses in mythic have a sufficiently large sample size to be valid.