Urgent: I need advice, critique, anything.

[Nikkitine]

My guild is getting ready to head into Mythic, and we're gutting our team down to 20. We have about 30 people right now wanting to raid and I'm one of them. I'm doing decently as Disc but I feel like I could do better.

If there are Disc priests or anyone in general that can give me some tips I sorely need it. I can take it! I'm a big girl.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...251061/latest/

I don't really know how these work so let me know if I need to link something else.

Also it's important to point out in my armory that I am infact wearing a Holy legendary. I was holy for the beginning of the xpac, and my stat priority is also more torwards holy. Let me know if that could be a problem as well. Thank you!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...foxsake/simple

[spiritsurge]

Personally I would suggest dropping Power Infusion for Twist of Fate, in Mythic people will definitely be dropping low enough for you to get use out of it and honestly it just feels like Disc can't really utilize PI effectively enough.

[Einzweidrei]

My guess is you are working too hard to keep atonement up constantly and not focusing enough on spreading it for big bursts of healing like after a tank explodes on nythendra or on some of ursocs charges/roars or during pulsing aoe from Drake add on denarius, etc. Keeping atonement running often is a huge mana drain and lower overall healing than doing big bursts with lights wrath, (schism), penance, mindbender and being more conservative between bursts.

You have fights where penance does more damage than sw but sw does more atonement healing, gain suggesting you are keeping up atonement all over instead of controlling bursts of healing with periods of conserving (and maybe spotting on tanks or someone getting hit with rot or spew corruption or something).

You don't use lights wrath at all?

[Nikkitine]

Personally I would suggest dropping Power Infusion for Twist of Fate, in Mythic people will definitely be dropping low enough for you to get use out of it and honestly it just feels like Disc can't really utilize PI effectively enough.

I could try that, yeah. I just feel like I'm missing something, I have a higher ilvl than some of the higher end disc priests, I can't put my finger on it.

- - - Updated - - -

My guess is you are working too hard to keep atonement up constantly and not focusing enough on spreading it for big bursts of healing like after a tank explodes on nythendra or on some of ursocs charges/roars or during pulsing aoe from Drake add on denarius, etc. Keeping atonement running often is a huge mana drain and lower overall healing than doing big bursts with lights wrath, (schism), penance, mindbender and being more conservative between bursts.

You have fights where penance does more damage than sw but sw does more atonement healing, gain suggesting you are keeping up atonement all over instead of controlling bursts of healing with periods of conserving (and maybe spotting on tanks or someone getting hit with rot or spew corruption or something).

So how would I fix that? Just, not applying atonement all the time? I tend to do really well on the spider/bird boss. I apply my atonements when she goes up then when she slams the ground I penance/halo and end up pretty okay on that fight. Am I just applying atonement at the wrong time on the wrong people?

EDIT: I always tend to forget my Light's Wrath, that's something I need to remember for bursts and just in general.

[Deleted]

Yes thats exactly what you should do on every fight, pre-atone people before big bursts of damage. It´s the challenging part of playing Disc, you have to know when dmg spikes come and react to them before they even happen, that might be your problem on other bosses.

[Nikkitine]

Yes thats exactly what you should do on every fight, pre-atone people before big bursts of damage. It´s the challenging part of playing Disc, you have to know when dmg spikes come and react to them before they even happen, that might be your problem on other bosses.

I thought that's what I was doing, but I oom rather quickly, and torwards the end I am completely oom. I've started using radiance more but I think maybe I am letting my atonement fall off too much? I am pretty confused.

[xhisors]

My guild is getting ready to head into Mythic, and we're gutting our team down to 20. We have about 30 people right now wanting to raid and I'm one of them. I'm doing decently as Disc but I feel like I could do better.

If there are Disc priests or anyone in general that can give me some tips I sorely need it. I can take it! I'm a big girl.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...251061/latest/

I don't really know how these work so let me know if I need to link something else.

Also it's important to point out in my armory that I am infact wearing a Holy legendary. I was holy for the beginning of the xpac, and my stat priority is also more torwards holy. Let me know if that could be a problem as well. Thank you!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...foxsake/simple

You don't use lights wrath at all?

This. in the one night of raiding of 17 boss pulls you used lights wrath 6 times. Thats a huge amount of burst healing. You could easily use it twice a fight.

[Nikkitine]

This. in the one night of raiding of 17 boss pulls you used lights wrath 6 times. Thats a huge amount of burst healing. You could easily use it twice a fight.

Noted, I'll put it somewhere more noticeable. What about stat priority? Do you think lacking haste is affecting me that much?

[Einzweidrei]

How many atonements do you tend to keep up all the time? How many do you try to have out before a big burst (corruption nova, ursoc's charge, etc etc)?

Your dps seems high relative to your hps I think. Backing off on dps rotation when there are lulls and you only have atonement on a tank or leftovers from a burst is a part of conserving mana as disc i think.

[xhisors]

Noted, I'll put it somewhere more noticeable. What about stat priority? Do you think lacking haste is affecting me that much?

No I don't think so. Your gear isn't terrible at all, just keep working on getting more haste/crit gear. You do want more but that will come over time. Someone else said to take twist of fate over PI. Personally I like PI over ToF but they both have their place - this is purely for the mana cost reduction more so than haste. Also because PI + Mindbender healing is absolutely nuts.

Things you are doing well:
-Keeping Pennance on Cd
-Keeping Atonement out

Things That need to improve(I'll explain why):
-Spreading your atonement more efficiently
-Using shadowmend and PW:S more for both atonement and throughput
-Mana efficiency

What I mean by spreading your atonement more efficiently is that you are not using near enough PWS just for spreading atonement. I'm looking at a bunch of top disc logs and they are trippling your pws casts in single fight. Use less PW:R - this is great to use when you absolutely need to, but really its more efficient to use other means such as plea(up to 5 i believe? would have to look that up), pws, shadow mend to get atonement out to the targets you need. Also PW:R you can't control where it goes so it in the end could be less overall throughput and mana efficiency just because of that RNG factor alone. So unless EVERYONE is taking damage and you can guarantee to land atonement on the targets that would benefit from the healing, i've noticed its not worth it.

Lastly mana efficiency will play a huge role with how you are playing currently in mythic. Right now with how much you are casting smite you won't last in mythic. But if you become better with getting atonement on the targets with your other spells(shadowmend, plea, pws) and make use of your artifact during the periods of bursts(you have to learn the fight well to excel) you will improve 10 fold.

This is just my 2(or 4) cents - other players might have better tips or thoughts.

[Nikkitine]

No I don't think so. You do want more but that will come over time. Someone else said to take twist of fate over PI. Personally I like PI over ToF but they both have their place - this is purely for the mana cost reduction more so than haste.

Things you are doing well:
-Keeping Pennance on Cd
-Keeping Atonement out

Things That need to improve(I'll explain why):
-Spreading your atonement more efficiently
-Using shadowmend and PW:S more for both atonement and throughput
-Mana efficiency

What I mean by spreading your atonement more efficiently is that you are not using near enough PWS just for spreading atonement. I'm looking at a bunch of top disc logs and they are trippling your pws casts in single fight. Use less PW:R - this is great to use when you absolutely need to, but really its more efficient to use other means such as plea(up to 5 i believe? would have to look that up), pws, shadow mend to get atonement out to the targets you need. Also PW:R you can't control where it goes so it in the end could be less overall throughput and mana efficiency just because of that RNG factor alone. So unless EVERYONE is taking damage and you can guarantee to land atonement on the targets that would benefit from the healing, i've noticed its not worth it.

Lastly mana efficiency will play a huge role with how you are playing currently in mythic. Right now with how much you are casting smite you won't last in mythic. But if you become better with getting atonement on the targets with your other spells(shadowmend, plea, pws) and make use of your artifact during the periods of bursts(you have to learn the fight well to excel) you will improve 10 fold.

This is just my 2(or 4) cents - other players might have better tips or thoughts.

Anything is helpful, and I appreciate you taking the time to write it all out for me. I tend to just run around like a chicken with my head cut off, applying atonements but not really looking at who could actually need them. Also I was under the impression I needed to smite spam, I'll have to watch that. On the PWS note, I should be using rapture more then to get those out? Because with the CD I couldn't see it being spammed? Unless I am missing something, my guild leader also pointed out my DPS vs HPS. I'm keeping atonement out but probably not on the right targets.

- - - Updated - - -

How many atonements do you tend to keep up all the time? How many do you try to have out before a big burst (corruption nova, ursoc's charge, etc etc)?

Your dps seems high relative to your hps I think. Backing off on dps rotation when there are lulls and you only have atonement on a tank or leftovers from a burst is a part of conserving mana as disc i think.

On average with burst, say on the spider boss, I radiance probably 4 times, pulling atleast 15 atonements. Average, I couldn't tell you. I've probably been really careless on when/where those are going.

[anon5123]

torwards the end I am completely oom..

That's the best possible scenario. You WANT to be oom right at the end of the fight, because if you're not oom, that means there was more healing that you could have done.

Disc however, you have to play it like an arcane mage: only go full ham at specific times, and ease up the rest of the time. It's really awkward and counter-intuitive compared to other healers, and past expansions where you wanted to always be casting.

When there's little damage going out, you just use PWS on cooldown, maybe a couple Pleas to keep 2-5 Atonements out, and hit up some Smite. If only the tank is taking damage, just don't cast at all to conserve mana (only if you're below 90% mana)

As Disc, you have to know beforehand when the big raid damage is coming, and about 6-8 seconds before, you throw out some more Plea's and maybe a PWR or two, then use Mindbender or Light's Wrath, and Penance/Smite for the next few GCDs. This is what Disc excels at: burst healing predictable raidwide damage.

If you try to heal everyone all the time, you're going to OOM very fast because Disc is not suited for spot healing like other healers are.

say on the spider boss, I radiance probably 4 times, pulling atleast 15 atonements.

Yeeaaahh, that's a bit too much. If you're casting PWR 4 times for every raidwide damage, then it's no surprise that you're OOM'ing so quick.

You want to hit Plea/PWS until about 6 Atonements, then PWR twice, leading to 12 atonements. You can't be trying to heal the entire raid every single time, because if you do, you'll burn your mana bar with all those PWRs.

Oh, and don't use Plea if you have more than 6 Atonements out, because it starts getting really fucking expensive. At that point, it's much more mana-efficient to use PWS, or Shadowmend if the target is below 70% or so.

[Nikkitine]

That's the best possible scenario. You WANT to be oom right at the end of the fight, because if you're not oom, that means there was more healing that you could have done.

Disc however, you have to play it like an arcane mage: only go full ham at specific times, and ease up the rest of the time. It's really awkward and counter-intuitive compared to other healers, and past expansions where you wanted to always be casting.

When there's little damage going out, you just use PWS on cooldown, maybe a couple Pleas to keep 2-5 Atonements out, and hit up some Smite. If only the tank is taking damage, just don't cast at all to conserve mana (only if you're below 90% mana)

As Disc, you have to know beforehand when the big raid damage is coming, and about 6-8 seconds before, you throw out some more Plea's and maybe a PWR or two, then use Mindbender or Light's Wrath, and Penance/Smite for the next few GCDs. This is what Disc excels at: burst healing predictable raidwide damage.

If you try to heal everyone all the time, you're going to OOM very fast because Disc is not suited for spot healing like other healers are.



Yeeaaahh, that's a bit too much. If you're casting PWR 4 times for every raidwide damage, then it's no surprise that you're OOM'ing so quick.

You want to hit Plea/PWS until about 6 Atonements, then PWR twice, leading to 12 atonements. You can't be trying to heal the entire raid every single time, because if you do, you'll burn your mana bar with all those PWRs.

Oh, and don't use Plea if you have more than 6 Atonements out, because it starts getting really fucking expensive. At that point, it's much more mana-efficient to use PWS, or Shadowmend if the target is below 70% or so.

It's odd to think that we can pull 300k HPS by just waiting for big spikes when other healers are healing constantly, it's taking some time to wrap my head around it. I am definitely used to being able to blanket a raid not worry about specific times, all things I can improve on. Thank you. Do you think disc is a viable part of a mythic group?

[xhisors]

Anything is helpful, and I appreciate you taking the time to write it all out for me. I tend to just run around like a chicken with my head cut off, applying atonements but not really looking at who could actually need them. Also I was under the impression I needed to smite spam, I'll have to watch that. On the PWS note, I should be using rapture more then to get those out? Because with the CD I couldn't see it being spammed? Unless I am missing something, my guild leader also pointed out my DPS vs HPS. I'm keeping atonement out but probably not on the right targets.

For PWS - you indeed use rapture to spam out the atonement. But I saw gaps in your logs where you went 10-13 seconds between PWS casts sometimes more. Thats 7-12 seconds roughly where PWS is off CD. It adds up over the course of a 5-7 minute fight. Smite spam is good and all, but only if you need to help with DPS for something like adds, also its only good to spam when you have a bunch of targets with atonement. But since atonement falls off so easily - smite spam usually doesn't get its full potential. It really shines when you find a nice pace of keeping a minimum of 6 atonements out and keep them rotating throughout the raid(except tanks - they should have it almost 100% of the time.)

EDIT:

It's odd to think that we can pull 300k HPS by just waiting for big spikes when other healers are healing constantly, it's taking some time to wrap my head around it. I am definitely used to being able to blanket a raid not worry about specific times, all things I can improve on. Thank you. Do you think disc is a viable part of a mythic group?

Most of the 7/7M guilds have a disc priest in the raid for the majority of fights. So yes its viable. Surprisingly, you don't see many holy priests.

[Nikkitine]

For PWS - you indeed use rapture to spam out the atonement. But I saw gaps in your logs where you went 10-13 seconds between PWS casts sometimes more. Thats 7-12 seconds roughly where PWS is off CD. It adds up over the course of a 5-7 minute fight. Smite spam is good and all, but only if you need to help with DPS for something like adds, also its only good to spam when you have a bunch of targets with atonement. But since atonement falls off so easily - smite spam usually doesn't get its full potential. It really shines when you find a nice pace of keeping a minimum of 6 atonements out and keep them rotating throughout the raid(except tanks - they should have it almost 100% of the time.)

Thank you very much.

[Einzweidrei]

Don't forget disc has some great tools.bdsides just burst healing: dps is something even if jt isn't a big deal, pain suppression is great for helping tanks deal with big damage or for surviving a speed corruption or placing poison on spider phase stacked up. Pw:barrier has a lot of spots it can get use to reduce damage, and when you have your pw:b talent it is better still. Mass dispel, etc.

[anon5123]

It's odd to think that we can pull 300k HPS by just waiting for big spikes when other healers are healing constantly, it's taking some time to wrap my head around it.

It sounded really fucking dumb to me when I first heard it as well, but it works. On H Ursoc I was neck-and-neck with the other healers (druid and monk) every pull, all of us resting around 260k hps.

I am definitely used to being able to blanket a raid not worry about specific times

Yeah, you can't just go full ham anymore. The "ABC" (always be casting) rule doesn't really work for Disc because you'll burn through your mana bar in 2 minutes if you do that.

Do you think disc is a viable part of a mythic group?

It was brought to world-first progression and did fine, so yes.

[Nikkitine]

It sounded really fucking dumb to me when I first heard it as well, but it works. On H Ursoc I was neck-and-neck with the other healers (druid and monk) every pull, all of us resting around 260k hps.



Yeah, you can't just go full ham anymore. The "ABC" (always be casting) rule doesn't really work for Disc because you'll burn through your mana bar in 2 minutes if you do that.



It was brought to world-first progression and did fine, so yes.

Thank you all so much. Hopefully I can take from this and gain some experience in tonights pulls on Cenarius and Xavius.

[Potta]

The previous comments about rotational aspects are all good. You're smiting too much and trying to keep atonement up too often. You need to condense your healing into times when you know it'll be most needed. Besides what other people have pointed out though, I'd suggest the following:

1. Replace Grace with Purge the Wicked. It's more damage, it costs less mana, and it lasts longer. You're not getting much effective healing out of Grace in a raid at all.

2. You should use Arcane Torrent more often. Use it early and often. I haven't looked through all your logs, but you seem to be using it about half as much as you could be. Get an WeakAura or TMW for that and pop it off CD without even thinking about it.

3. You need to change your trinkets. The ones you have currently are pretty bad, especially given that you've mentioned having mana problems. There are multiple to choose between, but the best one to get is also the easiest, the DMC: Promises deck. Looking at a Nythendra kill, you have the following spell casts:

Smite: 68
Plea: 43
Penance: 29
PWS: 24
SWP: 22
Halo: 4
Shadowmend: 2
Pain Supp: 1

Total: 193

Assuming you had the Promises deck, and averaged 1.1k reduction in costs, you'd have saved 212k mana here. That's more than another mana potion.

4. Speaking of potions, you should swap to Leytorrent Potion. The downtime is fine for a Disc priest, we should be healing in bursts. That's another 100k mana per fight.

[Nikkitine]

The previous comments about rotational aspects are all good. You're smiting too much and trying to keep atonement up too often. You need to condense your healing into times when you know it'll be most needed. Besides what other people have pointed out though, I'd suggest the following:

1. Replace Grace with Purge the Wicked. It's more damage, it costs less mana, and it lasts longer. You're not getting much effective healing out of Grace in a raid at all.

2. You should use Arcane Torrent more often. Use it early and often. I haven't looked through all your logs, but you seem to be using it about half as much as you could be. Get an WeakAura or TMW for that and pop it off CD without even thinking about it.

3. You need to change your trinkets. The ones you have currently are pretty bad, especially given that you've mentioned having mana problems. There are multiple to choose between, but the best one to get is also the easiest, the DMC: Promises deck. Looking at a Nythendra kill, you have the following spell casts:

Smite: 68
Plea: 43
Penance: 29
PWS: 24
SWP: 22
Halo: 4
Shadowmend: 2
Pain Supp: 1

Total: 193

Assuming you had the Promises deck, and averaged 1.1k reduction in costs, you'd have saved 212k mana here. That's more than another mana potion.

4. Speaking of potions, you should swap to Leytorrent Potion. The downtime is fine for a Disc priest, we should be healing in bursts. That's another 100k mana per fight.

The vial I got from a bonus roll, but the senses seemed to be bis everywhere I looked. I could be wrong, of course. I ended up trying some things discussed in this thread last night on Cenarius & Xavius, while I did see a notable HPS increase, it wasn't as high as I anticipated. I feel like on Xavius especially I tend to panic when we switch phases and a lot of damage goes out. Of course I'm still learning where I need to be active in fights, I also admittedly still have trouble telling when something is going to happen, so on that end I need to make more of an effort to read/learn when those things are going to happen. My Cenarius kill should be up there unless I have to relink it. Any feed back again would be helpful. Also I'll look into the DMC trinket atleast to replace my vial.