Israel approves 300 new West Bank settlements

[Deleted]

Gosh Logwyn, how do you not get this! We only roll back ownership of land to the point where it best benefits the muslims! Duuuuhhhhh.

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So you quote me something that not only doesn't prove that it was a directive from their commanders, but also shows that only 1 person died because of it,

Today on mmochamp: using children as human shields is OK if they don't die

and all of this took place over a decade ago, mostly after 9/11. Meanwhile, Hamas is currently, right this moment, using humans as shields, and bombs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...uicide_attacks

Just this year they used a suicide bomb.

What has that to do with anything. The point was that it wasn't an isolated case. I never made any comparison. That's idiotic.

That fact that you can look at these two entities and not just think they are equal, but that somehow Israel is more contemptible, goes to show not just how biased your view is, but how worthless it is.

I never said any of the things you claim I said so I don't know what you're on about or who you're talking to.

[Wells]

Blame for the situation, so far as such a thing can be assigned to hard discreet groups, is a difficult thing to allocate. On one side you have Israel, which has an open and functioning government that holds complete control over its own territory.

On the other hand you have a loose set of groups and government with varying levels of influence and control. This is due to both issues inside Palestine and Israel's own pretty clear disinterest in fostering a stable government inside Israel.

In such a situation Israel really is the only group with enough power and sway to effect lasting change.

[Deleted]

.... I do not care. Nobody cares to stop it, and none of those countries condemn it when others do it. So, the fuck I will care why?

None of "those" countries? What those countries? Everyone condemns Israel land grabbing.
When others do it? What others do it exactly?

[PC2]

Blame for the situation, so far as such a thing can be assigned to hard discreet groups, is a difficult thing to allocate. On one side you have Israel, which has an open and functioning government that holds complete control over its own territory.

On the other hand you have a loose set of groups and government with varying levels of influence and control. This is due to both issues inside Palestine and Israel's own pretty clear disinterest in fostering a stable government inside Israel.

In such a situation Israel really is the only group with enough power and sway to effect lasting change.

The Israeli government is not stable?

[Polyxo]

The West Bank is their land. They took it as the spoils of a war that was waged on them. Their land = theirs to settle IMO. If the Palestinians don't like it...well, they shouldn't have tried to attack Israel. If you pick a fight with a nation, lose horribly, and said nation takes ground...that's your own damn fault. Don't expect them to just give you back your land. America does it because we're gracious and we frankly don't need more land; we've got plenty of that within our own borders. Israel is surrounded by nations that would happily wipe them from existence if the threat of pissing off the United States wasn't a factor. If Iran, for example, were to attack Israel, Israel kicked their asses and counter-invaded and took half of Iran...well, Iran would have no one to blame but themselves. Ditto for the Palestinians.

Nope, it's not. Palestinians didn't invade, either.

[Deleted]

I agree that Israel should be the one that starts the talks... my only contention is that Palestine needs to stop throwing bombs across the border, and stop doing terrorist attacks.

Both sides are suffering, Palestine more than Israel, but again, that is due to their choice in government(on both sides really, but especially Hamas). And suffering aside, blowing up civilians is not going to win you anything other than more contempt from the people that you ultimately need to change the leaderships in Israel.

I do not see either side as "innocent" in what is happening.

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Russia?... not to long ago...

And.... that was accepted by other countries?

[Wells]

I agree that Israel should be the one that starts the talks... my only contention is that Palestine needs to stop throwing bombs across the border, and stop doing terrorist attacks.

Both sides are suffering, Palestine more than Israel, but again, that is due to their choice in government(on both sides really, but especially Hamas). And suffering aside, blowing up civilians is not going to win you anything other than more contempt from the people that you ultimately need to change the leaderships in Israel.

I do not see either side as "innocent" in what is happening.

Palestine last got to make a significant choice in their government in 2006. Its hardly fair to blame them for what that government does now, when anyone below the age of ~30 didn't have a say in making it and the normal electoral system hasn't continued since.

A populations moral culpability for their government's actions only extends so far as their ability to control that government. Palestinians have minimal ability to do so.

[Wells]

No defense of Hamas from me. I just think that people too often use the 2006 election as an opportunistic tool to blame Palestinians for what Hamas is doing today.

Not sure who has to fix that... Who is going to go in and remove Hamas from power? The US? Israel? We saw how well that worked in Iraq, and now Syria.

A strong Palestinian government without Hamas would help. Could start in the West Bank where Hamas has minimal power. But that would require Israel give concessions to such a government, which is unlikely to say the least. Israel's right wing seems to fear a unified Palestinian government.

[Deleted]

No, it was not. But I think the ship has sailed on Israel... At the time Israel was created, there was no "Jewish Homeland", outside what the Bible said was their land...

So most countries just made an arbitrary decision to stop another WW2 like extermination of a "race". Sort of like the talk now about creating a territory to hold Syrians.

When I talk about land grabbing I'm not referring to events that unfolded 70 years ago. I'm talking about what the OP was referring to.

[Dreknar20]

When others do it? What others do it exactly?

everyone?

Major powers don't become so through smiles and handjobs
The US grew from 13 colonies to a global super power.....how exactly do you think they achieved that?

[Deleted]

everyone?

Major powers don't become so through smiles and handjobs

Everyone.... who?

[Daws]

This whole Israel is evil and Palestine are the poor sweet innocent victims has been and always will be nonsense. Please read a history book or two, both sides have done various terrible things to each and both seem content to continue on in this fashion. Kindly leave them to it no amount of complaining or saber rattling will change this conflict it resolves when one side or the other is totally defeated or they decide it's time for peace.

[Deleted]

I think even if Palestine where to unify, they would still need support (weapons/resources) from either Israel (unlikely, as you noted), or some other Western Nation.

The fear from Israel's side, is that the weapons would end up with Hamas... the whole thing is kind of a catch 22.

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Oh... well, yes, I think Israel expanding now, is just causing their own problems with Palestine.

If they wanted to avoid conflict, they would build up, not out.

Israel has a number of ways to approach this problem. They could seek a long term solution which means reducing Hamas' influence on the general population, or they could seek a short term solution which means bombing them every X years and have a section of israeli population live in constant fear.

To reduce the influence of Hamas Israel needs to be actively engaged in the peace process. The moment people see that Hamas' way of doing things gives them LESS than the peace process, they will leave Hamas and extremism and follow the political way.

Hamas itself would shatter from the inside and eventually disappear or be greatly reduced in power.
As it stands now, Israel is only proving Hamas right everytime. People are left with no hope and hopelessness is a great fertiliser for extremism.

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This whole Israel is evil and Palestine are the poor sweet innocent victims has been and always will be nonsense. Please read a history book or two, both sides have done various terrible things to each and both seem content to continue on in this fashion. Kindly leave them to it no amount of complaining or saber rattling will change this conflict it resolves when one side or the other is totally defeated or they decide it's time for peace.

Who are you even talking to. No one made this point.

[Klaiden Potugye]

No. They use other people's children as human shields.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...B54BBBAE4B4E60

LOL

Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper.

And the soldier was CONVICTED, which means he was bloody punished and have got some jail time, and was never praised as hero.

Get some bloody perspective.

[Deleted]

LOL

Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper.

And the soldier was CONVICTED, which means he was bloody punished and have got some jail time, and was never praised as hero.

Get some bloody perspective.

Maybe read up about the matter instead of talking?

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I agree, which is why I said both are trainwrecks... and Netanyahu was the wrong person to elect if Israel wanted peace.

I think both sides are disingenuous, at this point, about peace, and peace talks.

And I agree Israel should step in and start the peace talks in earnest, and inflaming the Palestinians with what they are doing now, and electing Netanyahu is not how you do that.

Absolutely.

[Dreknar20]

Nope, it's not.

yes it does
To the victor goes the spoils.

Land 'rightfully' belonging to a country is just some idealistic delusional bullshit
Borders are not forged by some divine right. They are made by people, they can be changed by people

[Klaiden Potugye]

Or the Israelis can stop being a force of oppression in the first place.

The news from Middle East aren't that interesting. Syria, Iraq, Kurdistan, Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey etc. Who gives a fuq about these guys. Let's concentrate on Jews. Your inner judeophobia become more and more apparent with your every post. You are not the first, nor the last. Sieg heil!

[Wells]

The news from Middle East aren't that interesting. Syria, Iraq, Kurdistan, Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey etc. Who gives a fuq about these guys. Let's concentrate on Jews. Your inner judeophobia become more and more apparent with your every post. You are not the first, nor the last. Sieg heil!

Expecting more from a stable western democracy that is founded on human rights than we expect from Assad's government isn't a slight against the Israeli people, its an expression of our greater regard for them.

[Klaiden Potugye]

What was there to read?

Israeli newspaper published it, unlike it's Arab "brethren" who will go out of the way to praise any atrocity committed against Israel and Jews in particular.

[Polyxo]

No defense of Hamas from me. I just think that people too often use the 2006 election as an opportunistic tool to blame Palestinians for what Hamas is doing today.


A strong Palestinian government without Hamas would help. Could start in the West Bank where Hamas has minimal power. But that would require Israel give concessions to such a government, which is unlikely to say the least. Israel's right wing seems to fear a unified Palestinian government.

Well, it's more that Israel's right wing advocates for ethnic cleansing, and in many cases full on genocide. I'm not talking about fringe elements either. Their defense minister and justice minister both advocate full on extermination of Palestinians, while their agricultural minister and educational minister support mass ethnic cleansing.