To the Discs that raided HC/Mythic by now

[Goshko]

Every healer is going to rank higher and show better numbers with more innervates. Disc is no different.

Slight problem with this - they could but they don't have to. Because the majority of holy logs (as in more than half) don't have innervates. Want to guess how may of the top disc logs are without innervate? It's one on Nythendra, no need to guess.

But top parses show that Disc is competitive or superior to Holy on all fights.

Disc is shit on butthole boss.

Choose one. Also explain spiderbird.

Conclusion:
Most people playing Disc aren't capable of playing the spec well enough to perform as well as they could playing an easier spec such as Holy.

Discs collectively need to either git gud or the spec needs to be made easier to play.

Conclusion: Your statements are opinions, mine are facts.

[Deleted]

Conclusion:
Most people playing Disc aren't capable of playing the spec well enough to perform as well as they could playing an easier spec such as Holy.

While I'm personally trying to just git gud (or at least better), I don't think this statement is very good for stating a spec is fine. Sure, if you would say "some people" or "half the people" or "a lot of people just didn't get enough time to practice it yet", it would be a case of just "git gud bro", but when you say a month after release that "most people can't play it well enough" to keep up with another rather subpar spec, it kinda does show a problem. Does this mean it's a spec made exclusively for elites?

[Araetha]

Does this mean it's a spec made exclusively for elites?

Comparing to the traditional "see health bar drops > heal", there's a lot more decision making for disc to do at all time. Even when everyone is at full health, you still need to decide if you want to smite or blanketing atonements.

Disc is not that hard to play, but it is much harder to master. With the discussion right now seems to focus on only the highest level play, then yes only elites can get disc there. But being a spec that is harder to master doesn't mean it doesn't perform well. It means it takes more time for people to get to the same level as other specs.

[Deleted]

Comparing to the traditional "see health bar drops > heal", there's a lot more decision making for disc to do at all time. Even when everyone is at full health, you still need to decide if you want to smite or blanketing atonements.

Disc is not that hard to play, but it is much harder to master. With the discussion right now seems to focus on only the highest level play, then yes only elites can get disc there. But being a spec that is harder to master doesn't mean it doesn't perform well. It means it takes more time for people to get to the same level as other specs.

I'm not complaining myself - I think I do alright so far (especially considering I had no beta) - on some bosses better, on others worse (same bosses that every disc is better or worse), and I know I still have things to improve - on some bosses, while on others I can't really see what more I could do (looking at you, eviltree). I'm also not advocating that disc skill cap should be lowered - from my pov. However, looking at it objectively, something is not right when you are being told "the majority can't play it" in order to keep up with the last spec in terms of performance (we're not really debating how easy holy is, but even as easy as it is, it's not really booming on charts). This basically spells out "the spec is tailored for a handful of people" - and considering my ranks these days always have that * that means there's less than 50 parses for the spec in that bracket, that handful of people is awfully small.

I'm playing in a half casual guild, which doesn't really focus on optimal organizing. If I ask my fellow resto druid "when will you be using your tranq so I can time my atonements" he is just telling me "When I feel it's needed". Obviously in such an environment, my overhealing is through the roof. Still, even like this, I'm getting decent enough ranks - which isn't because I'm good, but because there's so few disc priests, you get to rank top 200 disc priest by being in the raid (prolly exaggeration, but you get my drift).

There's also been something bothering me. We keep being told that if we play well, we can keep up with other healers and bring some dps. That is all well and good, but all healers have various utilities, and - apart from the said dps - disc priest doesn't really have much. Our own survivability isn't stellar - cloth, our defensive requires us to get smacked, no instant large heal. I've had times in mythic+ where I had to use Pain Supp on myself to survive various things (issue shared by holy as well). We don't have CR, we don't have mana for the rest of the healers, we don't have a plethora of useful totems. Our raid cd, albeit very strong in the right moments, is very situational. Sure atonement+burst can be seen as a miniraid cd, but all healers are capable of burst, and they don't risk getting sniped so much as us. I'm not saying we need to have all those things, but for some reason our dps is considered the "bonus" for being really strong, while we bring little else in terms of utility and team synergy. Especially the overhealing issue for me atm is horrendous - whether it will get better with harder content or it won't get better unless I find a more organized guild, that remains to be seen.

Outside raids, let's talk mythic+. As we all know, the higher we go, the higher smend spam becomes, to the point where your "utility" is becoming less and less. Can we really say "playing really well will get you good enough results"? Honestly, in some nelth lair +8 I was just spamming my smend and praying the mobs die before they kill my tank. No real skill in mashing one button. Even casting PWS felt like a mistake, because tank was actually dropping more from a shield than from smend.

I fell in love with disc for its precision, for the capacity of doing triage and always have something to do. While current play style is fun (enough for me to not have any inclination towards speccing holy and preferring to sweat double as disc), it's not as satisfying, because I feel like a one trick pony: you can blanket atonement and burst heal and pretty much anything you do outside that is a case of "can I do this and have enough mana left for my unicorn pony?". If any boss deviates from the pattern of "predictable raid wide dmg" or "constant enough raid dmg to be counted as predictable", we're sitting ducks. You say it's about "making choices" - but it's not really a lot of choice, is it? You can raid heal very well and that is about it.

Again, I'm not saying disc is broken. I've got triggered a few times on the wow boards by people saying it's unviable and can't heal anything but farm, and got accused of being masochistic for defending something "obviously wrong". Since there are disc priests that cleared mythic in week one, obviously it can pull it off. However, it's pretty hard to defend a spec that a handful of people in the world can make it work. If I'd have seen similar representation on rankings of any other spec in the past, I'd have said something is off with that spec.

[Al Gorefiend]

Do people forget smite is a healing spell? Stack haste, go ham on smite, and on fights like Ursoc you'll be the only healer on the logs until a roaring cacophony goes out, you don't even need atonement on the tank unless you want to overheal. And if you're preemptive about that mechanic and the large AoE damage when he charges, stack atonement on the raid, then smash a light's wrath the moment the damage hits. Your other healers will be bored the entire fight.
You're also guaranteed to be above most tanks doing this.

Disclaimer: less effective in mythics. Only viable in tank-o spank-o fights like Ursoc without adds.

[Deleted]

Do people forget smite is a healing spell? Stack haste, go ham on smite, and on fights like Ursoc you'll be the only healer on the logs until a roaring cacophony goes out, you don't even need atonement on the tank unless you want to overheal. And if you're preemptive about that mechanic and the large AoE damage when he charges, stack atonement on the raid, then smash a light's wrath the moment the damage hits. Your other healers will be bored the entire fight.
You're also guaranteed to be above most tanks doing this.

Disclaimer: less effective in mythics. Only viable in tank-o spank-o fights like Ursoc without adds.

That would almost be true, if light's wrath healed everyone up and didn't have a 1.5 minute cooldown...

[Deleted]

Do people forget smite is a healing spell? Stack haste, go ham on smite, and on fights like Ursoc you'll be the only healer on the logs until a roaring cacophony goes out, you don't even need atonement on the tank unless you want to overheal. And if you're preemptive about that mechanic and the large AoE damage when he charges, stack atonement on the raid, then smash a light's wrath the moment the damage hits. Your other healers will be bored the entire fight.
You're also guaranteed to be above most tanks doing this.

Disclaimer: less effective in mythics. Only viable in tank-o spank-o fights like Ursoc without adds.

Yepp, with that 50-60k healing from smites, we would rock the world.
I'm stacking atonement before charges, my overhealing is impressive .

[Supliftz]

Do people forget smite is a healing spell? Stack haste, go ham on smite, and on fights like Ursoc you'll be the only healer on the logs until a roaring cacophony goes out, you don't even need atonement on the tank unless you want to overheal. And if you're preemptive about that mechanic and the large AoE damage when he charges, stack atonement on the raid, then smash a light's wrath the moment the damage hits. Your other healers will be bored the entire fight.
You're also guaranteed to be above most tanks doing this.

Disclaimer: less effective in mythics. Only viable in tank-o spank-o fights like Ursoc without adds.

it's not that people forget smite is a healing spell, it's just smite is a worse healing spell compared to more atonements.

[Deleted]

Do people forget smite is a healing spell? Stack haste, go ham on smite, and on fights like Ursoc you'll be the only healer on the logs until a roaring cacophony goes out, you don't even need atonement on the tank unless you want to overheal. And if you're preemptive about that mechanic and the large AoE damage when he charges, stack atonement on the raid, then smash a light's wrath the moment the damage hits. Your other healers will be bored the entire fight.
You're also guaranteed to be above most tanks doing this.

Disclaimer: less effective in mythics. Only viable in tank-o spank-o fights like Ursoc without adds.

Smite heals for what, 80-100k crit? All the setup just to get an 60-100k heal out to 5-7 people, do you have any idea what any of the other healers put out in that time?

Oh, and dont forget: Shockadins are actually better at dealing damage AND healing than Discs.

[Pearl1717]

Oh, and dont forget: Shockadins are actually better at dealing damage AND healing than Discs.

Glad I can still come to mmoc and get a giggle out of peoples beliefs.

[Deleted]

Glad I can still come to mmoc and get a giggle out of peoples beliefs.

t. 1/7M lul

[Pearl1717]

t. 1/7M lul

lul. quit raiding. But, hommie G, whats your toons name? So I can laugh at just how much I'd trash all over him?

But, here.

K, so lets actually take a look at top dps parses for both hpally and disc.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...adin&spec=Holy

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...pec=Discipline

Surprise surprise, hpallies don’t actually come close. Oh wait! Theres one, single parse where a hpally got approx. equal dps to what discs do on Nythendra. But wait, did that dps come at a price? Oh Purl, it did. Look! He did abysmal healing! Especially on a fight where hpallies do well on.

Sure, hpallies can do some good dps numbers but they can’t passively do it like disc priests can, all while maintaining the same throughput.

Or taking a look at all fights on average:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...&class=Healers

Wow. Hpallies sure are doing some dank dps! So much more than disc!

Oh wait!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=90&metric=hps

All while doing soooo much more hps than disc too!

[MDWiemann]

This popcorn tastes good mmmm

On topic, disc is fine, difficult yet rewarding, though I wouldnt argue with people complaining and getting me free buffs

[MendUS]

Oh, and dont forget: Shockadins are actually better at dealing damage AND healing than Discs.

Glad I can still come to mmoc and get a giggle out of peoples beliefs.

I registered just to lol at this comment too.

[Al Gorefiend]

it's not that people forget smite is a healing spell, it's just smite is a worse healing spell compared to more atonements.

Smite heals for what, 80-100k crit? All the setup just to get an 60-100k heal out to 5-7 people, do you have any idea what any of the other healers put out in that time?

Oh, and dont forget: Shockadins are actually better at dealing damage AND healing than Discs.

Its a more effective tool than just spamming a heal. Smite hits for 90k, which directly transfers into an absorb, capping at what? 20% of the priests health? When you're dealing with a single mob, no adds. So you're now healing for 90k right off the bat, plus for 40k-50k for each party member with your absorb. And you can get 3 of these out in 5 seconds. I'm not saying this is da sooper most OP mechanic ever, but its just as effective as rolling multiple HoTs over the raid + tank. AND you're contributing to as much DPS as an extra tank. I'm not buying the argument that Discs are only effective at farm content, I roll with a resto druid and hpal and I'm only the bottom healer in Nightmare dragons and Il'gynoth (where im assigned to mass dispel anyways and im mana-starved)

[PosPosPos]

Its a more effective tool than just spamming a heal. Smite hits for 90k, which directly transfers into an absorb, capping at what? 20% of the priests health? When you're dealing with a single mob, no adds. So you're now healing for 90k right off the bat, plus for 40k-50k for each party member with your absorb. And you can get 3 of these out in 5 seconds. I'm not saying this is da sooper most OP mechanic ever, but its just as effective as rolling multiple HoTs over the raid + tank. AND you're contributing to as much DPS as an extra tank. I'm not buying the argument that Discs are only effective at farm content, I roll with a resto druid and hpal and I'm only the bottom healer in Nightmare dragons and Il'gynoth (where im assigned to mass dispel anyways and im mana-starved)

Or, maybe, just maybe, you could save the mana used to cast smite to cast more PWRs instead.

[Deleted]

Its a more effective tool than just spamming a heal. Smite hits for 90k, which directly transfers into an absorb, capping at what? 20% of the priests health? When you're dealing with a single mob, no adds. So you're now healing for 90k right off the bat, plus for 40k-50k for each party member with your absorb. And you can get 3 of these out in 5 seconds. I'm not saying this is da sooper most OP mechanic ever, but its just as effective as rolling multiple HoTs over the raid + tank. AND you're contributing to as much DPS as an extra tank. I'm not buying the argument that Discs are only effective at farm content, I roll with a resto druid and hpal and I'm only the bottom healer in Nightmare dragons and Il'gynoth (where im assigned to mass dispel anyways and im mana-starved)

First of all, you don't get a 90k heal out of a 90k hit, you get 40%+your mastery - so your smite will heal for 50-60k but that is also not necessarily translated into 50-60k hps, unless you have enough haste to lower the cast time to 1 second . Second of all, while the shield may cap at 20% of the disc priest's health, you never get to actually stack so much. Third of all, it won't proc the absorb for every party member, only for the people the boss is actually damaging at the time, tank or raid member, whichever happens first.

This doesn't amount to much really.

[animus123]

So all this bickering about the viability of disc or priests in general is fascinating, but I have a more specific question. Are discs just supposed to suck on the Evil Tree boss? I mean sure, I'm fine once we're inside but I feel so useless outside. I'm actually about to just switch to Holy for this specific fight. I usually raid in a group that has just one priest and I honestly feel the only thing I bring is a mass dispel for when we mess up blob kiting. I feel as though I'm right up there with the other healers on the other heroic bosses but Evil Tree makes me feel pathetic. Are there any tricks people have to keep up healing numbers on the outside phase? I read that someone switched to CoW for this fight and I'll definitely try that, but there has to be something else I can do to help my raid as Disc. Thank you.

[Pearl1717]

So all this bickering about the viability of disc or priests in general is fascinating, but I have a more specific question. Are discs just supposed to suck on the Evil Tree boss? I mean sure, I'm fine once we're inside but I feel so useless outside. I'm actually about to just switch to Holy for this specific fight. I usually raid in a group that has just one priest and I honestly feel the only thing I bring is a mass dispel for when we mess up blob kiting. I feel as though I'm right up there with the other healers on the other heroic bosses but Evil Tree makes me feel pathetic. Are there any tricks people have to keep up healing numbers on the outside phase? I read that someone switched to CoW for this fight and I'll definitely try that, but there has to be something else I can do to help my raid as Disc. Thank you.

Only for norm/heroic: Take grace, focus the eye, spam SM on whoever the eye targets. Literally all there is to do on that fight. Its all about sniping whoever the eye targets before the other healers. Its a dumb fight. Or just go holy and do the same thing.

[Al Gorefiend]

Or, maybe, just maybe, you could save the mana used to cast smite to cast more PWRs instead.

I don't like PW:R. I rarely cast it in raids to be honest. And I must be doing something right because I'm still contributing to the most healing in the group on most fights. I cast it in dungeons prior to a big burst phase only to save a few seconds spreading atonement then never touch it again. It's too expensive to be reliable I think.