Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[MrTharne]

But it is in the loot journal

It's not in the loot journal of BM and MM, Spontaneous is only on SV loot journal while Bloodthirsty is on every spec loot journal.

[Deleted]

How good is Unstable Arcanoshatter Crystal? Compared to the topdogs, Chrono Shard / Narax / Blodothirsty instinct?

nevermind, actually missed it in the trinkets sims from 1st post

[Effinhunter]

You sure you didn't choose overall hunter loot? Since last time I checked it was in neither BM nor MM dungeon journal loot.

Another point: Is it intended, that the new simc simulations for hunters (current 865ilvl one) are done with Twisting Winds and a 840 Fulmination Charge? Since that is kind of dumb tbh.

Where are you seeing a profile with these two trinkets?

- - - Updated - - -

P.S. Rerunning the spec and dungeon comparisons with TheJazz's APL changes (I've disabled one of the lines that was causing a simcraft reporting error, but otherwise, it's the same). I'll update when they're done.

First result is just the simple spec compare for single target (450s +/- 20%, 50k iterations, 850/880 ilvl).


I won't be able to supervise the sims for a while, but I'll hopefully post the rest before raid tonight once I get back to my computer (assuming nothing goes wrong with the batch)

[Deleted]

I`m just start to be curios after i saw updated stat weights for MM
Did Mastery is strong enough to bypass the 5% agility bonus from the wearing only mail?
After all blizzard want us to feel like old times and in old times every piece of gear was...well Hunter gear

[Jayeazy]

There are warnings because of the way I have it set up to handle multitarget Vuln tracking, it tries to target a second enemy if it can but should default to the main target if it can't but will still throw me warnings on the results page. There's probably a better way to do what I want to do but I don't know it yet. Anyway it was slightly changed in this update.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Ja...ter/mm_apl.txt
Messed with the apls MS/Aimed prio and got more out of the single target damage which was especially good for the Crows build since it was lagging behind the other apl last time. It should be easily in first place according to that last sim but it's not included. Also found a point for when a change in multitarget priority should happen in this apl. I see other apls prioritizing Marked Shot past a certain target count, like the default profile starting at 4. As I've already found, there were some very noticeable deficiencies regarding multitarget damage and the priority target sacrifices made when prioritizing for it, and maybe that number was a result that was true for those, but I've found it to be different on mine. This point is at 3 targets and was only the case when using Barrage. Other apls also begin to completely ignore Windburst at a certain point, which I did not think was good at all, but it was hiding a problem I ran into. Since Windburst extends Vuln on the main target, using the main target to know when it's still safe to get a buffed MS would result in a loss of buffed MS on secondary targets sometimes. This is why I started using enemy2 for targeting some abilities. In this update I use a variable that would track either the secondary target's Vuln or the main target if there isn't one. I have no idea if this will work with staggered adds if the enemy2 name is not reused or something.

All these are 360s +-20% at 10k with the t19H profile gear. I go up to 4 targets since the default apl has conditions that kick in for aoe at 4 targets and higher.

1 target PS/SW build and Barrage, variance is the only reason the top 3 aren't identical, they do the same thing still


2 target, top 2 still do the same thing


3 target, where a MS prio becomes better than normal priority


4 target


1 target PS/SW with Crows, top 3 identical still


2 target, top 2 will remain identical since they do the same thing with this build


3 target


4 target


Like Crows, the same held true for Volley. MS prio is only a gain with Barrage at 3+ targets. Makes sense when you think about the problems you'd have trying to prioritize MS without a constant focus dump like Barrage to offset the Vuln time you're clipping. As before, all builds saw boosts in aoe and prio damage during that aoe as well over default apl.

[Deleted]

Where are you seeing a profile with these two trinkets?

I'm sorry, that was not directed at you, just at the general simc results for 865 on the simulationcraft.org website.

[Effinhunter]

I'm sorry, that was not directed at you, just at the general simc results for 865 on the simulationcraft.org website.

Oh, I haven't taken a look at those. It would not surprise me if they were using the wrong trinkets. It's sort of normal at this point.

I've updated the spec and mythic dungeon comparisons (staggered add sims) in first post. Sorry it was late. These were with the APL before TheJazz's recent update. I'll try to get to another rerun this weekend.

Since Azor now seems ok with including Killer Cobra back in the breakdowns again, I'll try to reinsert KC back into the mix, likely replacing the newer BM build he had suggested. Another thing on my todo list is running trinket sims with 850 or 860 ilvl base, to show how things are scaling. I also need to work on some sims for gear slots, but adding all the items by hand is a bit daunting. I have some ideas on how I would like to change the trinket listings to be less overwhelming (and this would effect the eventual other gear slot sims too). I'll probably have to change Simcraft Explorer to generate an HTML file or an SQL database that can be queried and customized for what people are looking for. I mentioned this a month or so ago, but I really haven't had the time to program it yet. I'm still thinking on it, and I'll try to work toward that idea, but it may be a while (maybe even as late as Nighthold, it just depends on if I can get a few days to really focus on it).

[Azortharion]

No reason to replace Stampede for the "dungeon" sims, just gonna make BM look worse than it is for that.

[Deleted]

Is it worth blowing of Aimed shots even though there are no Vulnerble buff on and Barrage+WB on CD? Sometimes the Sidewinders dont proc that often and you just have to wait (autoattack) or load an Aimed, which seems like waste of focus. Any tips?

[Azortharion]

Read the guide next time.

[arrowintheknee]

Hey Azor thanks for the guide, I have not raided since wrath and now I'm top 3 dps in my guild runs (those damn shadow priests). I have a question about #4: Barrage: "Try to use it without vulnerable active, but do not delay it too much". What is the max number of seconds I can delay using barrage? I find barrage very disruptive to my rotation because of the high focus cost. Also, since the 20% nerf, simcraft ranks barrage below aimed shots in damage per execute time. Would that mean barrage should be lower priority than aimed shots?

[Azortharion]

You generally don't really want to delay it ever, but you can get an extra Aimed during Vulnerable by delaying it 2-3 seconds, then that is probably going to be worth it. You should also generally not ever Sidewinders into Barrage if they are both available, since you could just Barrage first and then also get the Aimed Shot benefit from the Sidewinders that's coming.

[GT4]

Also, since the 20% nerf, simcraft ranks barrage below aimed shots in damage per execute time. Would that mean barrage should be lower priority than aimed shots?

Unless you're always GCD capped/focus capped, you cannot just look at damage per execute time while ignoring damage per focus spent.

[Aneri]

I got my artefact finally to rank 24 and so to the 3th golden "Call of the Hunter".
Its looks really nice! But.. Boy its damage its really underwhelming over the lenghts of a fight.
Has somebody the knowledge: is there a internal Cooldown on "Call of the Hunter" and wich proccrate/proccchance does it has?

[Finbezz]

I got my artefact finally to rank 24 and so to the 3th golden "Call of the Hunter".
Its looks really nice! But.. Boy its damage its really underwhelming over the lenghts of a fight.
Has somebody the knowledge: is there a internal Cooldown on "Call of the Hunter" and wich proccrate/proccchance does it has?

Proc rate just seems really low. I've gone 2 minute fights and only gotten 1-2 procs. Hence why we get it last. I doubt there's an ICD or anything cause I've had it proc back to back multiple times.

[Aneri]

Thanks for the infos but i think there must be more known data about it. This Theorycraftig Guide have to use some data about procc rate/chance to be able to get infos about a dps gain.

And how i see it.. it even dont show in warcraftlogs.com

[Agiliter]

more improvements for mm apl, based on TheJazz's APL.
pastebin.com/b6HraRYz

[Thursley]

Wowhead's tooltip for call of the hunter says 1 RPPM.

[Effinhunter]

The Wowhead tooltips are often wrong, but the RPPM is indeed low on CotH. 1 RPPM sounds reasonably close. It's low.

[Flodorf]

It has been a while since I played WoW. I was used to being able to show advanced tooltips and finding out how the damage of an ability is being calculated. I can´t for the life of me figure out where I can find that now. For example, Aimed Shot states that is 215% weapon damage, but it obviously scales with Agility as well. Where can I find these equations now?

Thanks!