Nighthold LFR 30 ilvls lower then Nighthold Normal

[avx81]

And if there aren't enough people in my guild on for that? +2s don't last forever because the keystone upgrades? If you pug you're not very likely to get more than 1 chest which actually gives give less ap than lfr and is such a waste of time unless your group is good which isn't guaranteed? Got anymore bro?

I run +2's/3s with pugs all night as a healer. Usually a quick invite. Most pugs even with a carry are able to get 2 chests if not 3. Not sure what terrible groups your running with. Very quick artifact power. I get much more from mythic+ than lfr. Who knows. Maybe I just don't suck at healing and my groups can chain pull. Also I got 2 of my legs from chain running mythic+ with mostly pugs.

Also I wanted to add. I don't agree with the item level difference being that big. Besides LFR being for casual its a catch up mechanic for those wanting to level up alts to get them to normal raids quicker OR for people who are late in the expansion. Nobody gonna be running EN except for some pugs when NH comes out. LFR is typically used as a quick catch up mechanic to get yourself to running normal

[kary]

I run +2's/3s with pugs all night as a healer. Usually a quick invite. Most pugs even with a carry are able to get 2 chests if not 3. Not sure what terrible groups your running with. Very quick artifact power. I get much more from mythic+ than lfr. Who knows. Maybe I just don't suck at healing and my groups can chain pull. Also I got 2 of my legs from chain running mythic+ with mostly pugs.

Shhh. Don't clue them in.

OT: Again, people will never be happy until they can afk in dalaran and get raid gear comparable to the people wiping all night on mythic bosses.

Also I wanted to add. I don't agree with the item level difference being that big. Besides LFR being for casual its a catch up mechanic for those wanting to level up alts to get them to normal raids quicker OR for people who are late in the expansion. Nobody gonna be running EN except for some pugs when NH comes out. LFR is typically used as a quick catch up mechanic to get yourself to running normal

Naw, LFR is where people stop wanting to progress, as you can see here. People don't want to fail, so they'll stick to heroics and LFR where wiping is mathematically impossible.

[Saintlel]

Well aside from the fact that vacation laws in my country are royally fucked. I do spend what little time i get off out of the cities and in places without internet and with my family.

I don't really want to spend the little time i get off trying to grind pixels. So yeah. Fuck sacrificing having a life so i can get pixels.

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Yeah i know why blizzard caters to the audience who spends the most time playing the game.

I just think they could do a lot more to cater to people who do not have that time to play the game but want a constant world in which they can socialise with their friends or meet new people.

LFR kills communities, not builds them, normal mode raiding is the best answer for socializing

[IIamaKing]

They should just make all raid tiers share a loot lockout.

That would end the crying from those that feel they have to run LFR because "Mah precious tier/trinkets!!!".

No, because that removes something to do from the people who have self control. I run lfr on off nights for legs, runes and uproll chances. Your "fix" breaks my off night enjoyment.

They did this a few years back, it sucked then, they fixed it back to loot lock outs per difficulty, and its great.

[Traveler Voltin]

30 ilvls lower is a huge gap especially with a raid coming in 7.1 that is suppose to be the in between raid.

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LFR kills communities, not builds them, normal mode raiding is the best answer for socializing

you mean the communities that would blacklist you for a minor mess up?

[NoiseTank13]

I was hopeful they'd return LFR back to the good state it was in during MoP, but nah. With such ilvl drops, it's even more irrelevant than in WoD.

This is a decent compromise in all honesty. Tier bonuses returned along with trinkets, and raiders no longer have the imaginary gun pointed at their head that compelled them to queue into LFR.

[SirReal]

They should just make all raid tiers share a loot lockout.

That would end the crying from those that feel they have to run LFR because "Mah precious tier/trinkets!!!".

What? No way man.

Based on the difficulty of this tier, which I think is on the easier side, there seem to be a lot of guilds doing H clears one night + Mythic progression the remainder of the nights.

For instance, we clear Heroic + Mythic Nyth and Ele on our first night. That gives a nice gear bump to the raid and we still have two more nights for new mythic progression.

Granted, there will be diminishing returns to this with more H clears under our belts but it's still a fun, relaxed start to the raid week that will most likely turn to alt gearing/roster bloat.

OT: the ilvl of LFR is fine

[Nitros14]

Zero challenge, zero reward.

[Saintlel]

30 ilvls lower is a huge gap especially with a raid coming in 7.1 that is suppose to be the in between raid.

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you mean the communities that would blacklist you for a minor mess up?

Yeah because normal guilds that are casual and laid back don't exist

Stop getting triggered over your anxiety about performance and throw yourself out there, I was literally 12 years old when I joined a Karazhan guild that wiped on Moroes and Maiden, I met people there that I still talk to and raid with to this very day, THAT is community, THAT is socializing, not waiting in queue for an hour and then doing a 20 minute "raid"

[chalon9]

They should make mythic raids give gear 100 ilvls higher than heroic, heroic should be 50 above normal, and normal should be 25 above lfr. I'm sure a lot of these pro normal raiders will complain when people have gear 150 ilvls higher than them. But they should just stop complaining and do mythic. Bunch of noobs

[Traveler Voltin]

Yeah because normal guilds that are casual and laid back don't exist

Stop getting triggered over your anxiety about performance and throw yourself out there, I was literally 12 years old when I joined a Karazhan guild that wiped on Moroes and Maiden, I met people there that I still talk to and raid with to this very day, THAT is community, THAT is socializing, not waiting in queue for an hour and then doing a 20 minute "raid"

stop assuming shit and move on with your life.

[Binko]

Mythic raiders often say that high level raiding is all about the experience of working together at a higher skill level.

In that case, we don't need any Raid gear higher than Normal. Groups that are more organized and more skillful can wear that same gear and go do Heroic. And the most skillful and organized can wear that same gear and go do Mythic.

That is logically true, but it would be highly unsatisfying. The nature of RPGs and MMOs is that you progress your character. Well, it's the same thing for LFR; people want a reasonable gear progression from the newer content.

People who mindlessly repeat the same tired old "it's tourist mode - just about seeing the content" have completely missed the point of LFR. LFR and LFD provided an alternate leveling path for players who don't like or don't want, for a variety of reasons, to manually form and join groups. It was designed to be it's own progression path separate from organized raiding and providing lesser but still meaningful rewards.

Blizzard used to be actively working to make WoW provide content equally to both groups. But they have changed and now they seem to want to revert to the ancient days of MMOs when you were forced to manually make groups. Immature players are happy with this because they want the entire game to be built along the lines that they like best. But as WoW becomes less inclusive many of those who feel that their preferred playstyle is now poorly supported will leave

[goblingirl]

They are like 200g each on my server. Also you don't have to use them even in Mythic. So again you are not stuck doing LFR because you do not need runes unless you really care about 325 of a missing stat.

You're either buying them and lucky, or you're selling them and unlucky - on my server I'm getting 800g each for 'em.

[Eleccybubb]

You're either buying them and lucky, or you're selling them and unlucky - on my server I'm getting 800g each for 'em.

Still doesn't mean you HAVE to own them for raiding. It's a very minor perk.

[kary]

Mythic raiders often say that high level raiding is all about the experience of working together at a higher skill level.

In that case, we don't need any Raid gear higher than Normal. Groups that are more organized and more skillful can wear that same gear and go do Heroic. And the most skillful and organized can wear that same gear and go do Mythic.

That is logically true, but it would be highly unsatisfying. The nature of RPGs and MMOs is that you progress your character. Well, it's the same thing for LFR; people want a reasonable gear progression from the newer content.

People who mindlessly repeat the same tired old "it's tourist mode - just about seeing the content" have completely missed the point of LFR. LFR and LFD provided an alternate leveling path for players who don't like or don't want, for a variety of reasons, to manually form and join groups. It was designed to be it's own progression path separate from organized raiding and providing lesser but still meaningful rewards.

Blizzard used to be actively working to make WoW provide content equally to both groups. But they have changed and now they seem to want to revert to the ancient days of MMOs when you were forced to manually make groups. Immature players are happy with this because they want the entire game to be built along the lines that they like best. But as WoW becomes less inclusive many of those who feel that their preferred playstyle is now poorly supported will leave

No, the point of LFR was always for people to see the content. People just latched on to it as an endgame because it dropped good purples. Now that it drops mediocre purples, it's back to what it was intended to be, a tourist mode.

[grandgato]

.

Normal is the new LFR. Just scrap LFR.

Make it queable through LFD matchmaking and you got a deal.

[Glorious Leader]

No, the point of LFR was always for people to see the content. People just latched on to it as an endgame because it dropped good purples. Now that it drops mediocre purples, it's back to what it was intended to be, a tourist mode.

This is close but not quite accurate. The point of lfr is to ensure that the assets produced when developers make raids are utilized to theit maximum degree. Obviouslg nerfing their rewards damaged this it did not stop it though.

[normiegonnanorm]

Mythic2+ is better than this raid's LFR. Maybe if only for some specific BiS items LFR's better.

[Blayze]

Mythic raiders often say that high level raiding is all about the experience of working together at a higher skill level.
In that case, we don't need any Raid gear higher than Normal.

Let's go one step further: LFR is the only raid mode that should reward gear.
After all, "real" raiders don't need crutches like that, and it WOULD fix the problem of iLevel inflation...

[Sansnom]

No, the point of LFR was always for people to see the content. People just latched on to it as an endgame because it dropped good purples. Now that it drops mediocre purples, it's back to what it was intended to be, a tourist mode.

Partially true. LFR was to allow MORE people to see the raid content in order to justify its existence.

Without LFR, raid development would most likely be drastic reduced and its resource diverted to other developments. Raiding is a niche. It still is. Yet it is probably the focus of content releases.