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  1. #1
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    I REALLY miss 10 man Mythic(Heroic)

    Back in MoP, we had our own, very well running 10man raid who was able to compete on our server (around rank 2-3 throughout MoP).

    After Blizzard basically forced 20man upon us, we have been in nothing but trouble. We never managed to recruit the required players to continue playing on the same level, and it has been going downhill ever since. We couldn't keep up our old progression, became less and less interesting for players required to keep up with the progression we aimed for and that would result in players eventually leaving our Guild.

    It is so incredibly hard to find 10-15 People that fit the raid, 10-15 people who play on the same "level" as the rest of the Raid does.

    Now, in Legion, i have reached a point where i get anxiety to log in, click on the guild info log and see if another player left the guild because we can't keep up with what we used to be.

    I will never understand why blizzard took away 10man as a viable format for Mythic Raiding.Sure it might be easier from a balancing point of view, but it still screwed so many guilds and takes away so much potential from guilds who simply don't have the options to recruit needed players.

  2. #2
    I actually just finally gave up on raiding after the first week of Emerald Nightmare. I'm a fairly skilled tank (Rank #17 Blood DK on Ursoc H for the first Week, all legendary parses on WarcraftLogs for all 7/7 November and H Nythendra), but just couldn't be bothered with panticipating in a part of the game where the most difficult aspect is recruiting.

    So it's Mythic+'s and then deep around until the reset, praying for 10's to triumphantly return.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyersing View Post
    I actually just finally gave up on raiding after the first week of Emerald Nightmare. I'm a fairly skilled tank (Rank #17 Blood DK on Ursoc H for the first Week, all legendary parses on WarcraftLogs for all 7/7 November and H Nythendra), but just couldn't be bothered with panticipating in a part of the game where the most difficult aspect is recruiting.

    So it's Mythic+'s and then deep around until the reset, praying for 10's to triumphantly return.
    I always raided 10m Heroic (mythic now) over 25 mans. So recruiting an extra 10 players was originally a nightmare. I can't be bothered to micromanage/recruit that many people today which is why I don't really raid anymore. If they brought back 10m Mythic I would definitely get back into raiding.

  4. #4
    In my opinion 10 is too low a number as class balance can become an issue however I think 20 can be a bit of struggle to recruit consistent people. I prefer more around the 15-17 mark. But that just my 2c

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Sickjen's Avatar
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    For me 10 man was really special. I dislike 20 man a lot actually. The whole point of mythic was to make mythic bosses harder by tighter tuning i just don't see how any of the mythic fights are comparable to 10m herioc.

    For difficulty 10 man was much harder.
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  6. #6
    I like smaller raid groups more myself. Having to jump to 20 killed my long running raid and gutted raiding on that server. Without addressinf server issues by forcing the switch to 20 they really shit on a lot of people. It is on of the larger disservices Blizzard has sone to the player base. Sadly they were rewarded for it with thousands of dollars of server transfers made as a resjlt of this. Further increasing the problem for many as servers rapidly died.
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  7. #7
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    The claim made was that by fixing the raid size at 20 the devs could count on raids having certain classes and abilities in use that they couldnt if the raid size was to small or not fixed. How many actual fights in mythic are designed that need this constraint?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    The claim made was that by fixing the raid size at 20 the devs could count on raids having certain classes and abilities in use that they couldnt if the raid size was to small or not fixed. How many actual fights in mythic are designed that need this constraint?
    most of them, bring mages & hunters, the more you bring the easier the fight.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    The claim made was that by fixing the raid size at 20 the devs could count on raids having certain classes and abilities in use that they couldnt if the raid size was to small or not fixed. How many actual fights in mythic are designed that need this constraint?
    balance around the ability to have every class in the group or something like that.
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
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    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
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  10. #10
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zanjin View Post
    balance around the ability to have every class in the group or something like that.
    So for example they can expect youll have a priest. Is their any fight that you could not do on mythic without a priest?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    most of them, bring mages & hunters, the more you bring the easier the fight.
    Now is that cause mages and hunters offer exceptional dps or because their ability set allows you to overcome obstacles. And if all you need is mages and hunters how is that balancing around having one of every class?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #11
    I had a raid group that got established in Cata and we raided all three tiers. Continued in Mists and tried to go into Warloards but the change to 20 man destroyed our group. We were a pretty laid back group of people but we still liked bringing our A game and beating the raid encounters. We were all perfectly fine with 10 man even if it was less forgiving for mistakes. Adding the additional 10 people caused us to not be able to maintain the laid back style we had for two expansions. We ended up having to institute a loot system and assign officers and official leaders in order to manage, which is a part of larger groups and thats fine. The problem is the feeling we had with our ten man was completely lost by becoming a larger group and needing those management tools.

    Shortly into Warlords raiding we ended up breaking up the raid and eventually the guild also fell apart. The removal of ten man raiding was one of the biggest hits to my enjoyment of the game because it broke up the people who I enjoyed playing the game with. We still play together and are in touch but it isn't the same and that is what is truly sad about it to me.

  12. #12
    blizzard sucks at balancing.
    more news at 2.
    Anemo: traveler, Sucrose
    Pyro: Yanfei, Amber, diluc, xiangling, thoma, Xinyan, Bennett
    Geo: Noelle, Ningguang, Yun Jin, Gorou
    Hydro: Barbara, Zingqiu, Ayato
    Cyro: Shenhe, Kaeya, Chongyun, Diona, Ayaka, Rosaria
    Electro: Fischl, Lisa, Miko, Kujou, Raiden, Razor

  13. #13
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    My five friends and myself raided 10 mans exclusively back in BC and Wrath and it was a blast. We made a small guild with the release of legion, and decided to start casually raiding. We are working our way through normal, but I wish we had the option to experience mythic difficulty in a 10 man setting. I really do not like large raid groups. Finding reliable people to join feels almost impossible just for a 10m let alone twenty for mythic.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    So for example they can expect youll have a priest. Is their any fight that you could not do on mythic without a priest?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Now is that cause mages and hunters offer exceptional dps or because their ability set allows you to overcome obstacles. And if all you need is mages and hunters how is that balancing around having one of every class?
    Mythic Blast Furnace I believe required a priest to MC the guards to be able to kill the slags.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Abominable View Post
    For difficulty 10 man was much harder.
    Depended entirely on the fight. Some fights were harder on 10, some were harder on 25. The only time this didn't really reign true was T11 where all of the 10 fights were overtuned.

  16. #16
    Honestly balancing properly for such a small raid group and making so that certain comps were not required was next to impossible with top tier difficulties. Just be happy it is not 40 mans anymore because you needed atleast 35 people with a brain on their shoulders to do Naxx and AQ40.

  17. #17
    Honestly the mistake was making 10 on the same level as 25. If 25 had always awarded the better loot like back in wrath, we wouldn't have the issue that we do now.

  18. #18
    This thread is filled with QQ, 10 man doesn't make it harder it makes you lazier. If you want smaller content do M+ and be happy. If you want to do Mythic, get 10 more people and get the party started.

    I raided my fair share of WoW dating back from Vanila when you had to recruit 40 PEOPLE, yet people still found ways, managed. Reality check, you and your 5 imaginary friends are just crying for the sake of crying, you are not special you are part of a bigass MMO. Find more people do the content. If they suck boot them and repeat recruitment, its always been that way, especially easy now with the return of a lot of veteran players that came back for Legion.

  19. #19
    Was just talking to my best bud about this today, 10 mans were the best time in WoW, to bad they fucked it up.

  20. #20
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LudiMajk View Post
    This thread is filled with QQ, 10 man doesn't make it harder it makes you lazier. If you want smaller content do M+ and be happy. If you want to do Mythic, get 10 more people and get the party started.

    I raided my fair share of WoW dating back from Vanila when you had to recruit 40 PEOPLE, yet people still found ways, managed. Reality check, you and your 5 imaginary friends are just crying for the sake of crying, you are not special you are part of a bigass MMO. Find more people do the content. If they suck boot them and repeat recruitment, its always been that way, especially easy now with the return of a lot of veteran players that came back for Legion.
    As always progress is the enemy. To say nothing of appeal or popularity. Really we need 80 man raids back imho.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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