[Druid] Healing Help Mythic Nythendra

[Actarius]

Hey, I just started healing for the first time around 2 weeks into the expansion. I was hoping to get some advice on mythic Nythendra. We were able to kill her but I felt that I could've done better. Most guilds are 4 healing her, whereas we needed 5.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2&type=healing

Also, if anyone has time, a glance over my heroic kills on Tuesday would also be quite welcome .

I always use 1/1/3/3/1/2/3 for raid healing

- - - Updated - - -

Edit: Sorry I'm Kubeba in the logs

[Alltat]

Warcraft Logs is down right now, so you'll unfortunately have to hang on for a while.

[ryklin]

#1 cd's, you only got 1 good tranq due to how cd's timed out which does a bit worse for meters, and that's fine, but you used tree and innervate once when you had enough free time to just pop them for some more mana efficiency around the 2nd breath when damage finally does start to get high as bombs get closer to breaths and rot stacks get higher, and you barely used flourish or essence of g'hanir at all either (so basically 4 really big abilities you probably could've used all of them at least twice as much)

2. regular spell usage: you didn't use efflorescence, I know people move a lot, but it's still mana efficient with 2 people in it and really great at 3+, swiftmend you could probably bother to use a lot more too, and the biggest one, you didn't use wild growth much, in 8 casts it used, you should at least be using it for every tank bomb and later in the fight when the # of rots is higher (also you can trace out your random wg targers with rot and give them rejuvs to increase mastery benefit), but you did great with clearcasting proc usage and lifebloom uptime, and your tank healing is really low, that's easy efficient and meaningful healing you can put out by just parking a rejuv, lifebloom, and OoC regrowth on a tank

the follwing isn't completely accurate since I'm ignoring how tree of life affects hpm:

in 8 casts, WG did 8.21M healing for 598,400 mana (technically a bit higher since it looks like you went south in the artifact tree so the mana value there is wrong and it probably did some more healing through power of the archdruid), while you spent 3,146,000 mana for 34.84M healing on rejuv,

so the hpm for WG did was about 13.7 health per mana, while rejuv did about 11 health per mana, and this is without you having the dreamwalker or nature's infusion traits while having the rejuv duration trait, which says a lot about how good WG is right now and it's better healing per cast time and mana than rejuv, so use it more if it'll have people to heal


3. talents: I'd prefer inner peace here, but it's not that big of a deal if the cd rotation is still covering everything, and spring blossoms isn't very worthwhile here since to really get everything from it you want a LOT of people in the shroom, while germ is great for people with high rot stacks and tanks, and in general try playing around with your talents more,

tree is pretty lackluster at a 7% uptime for the pull so you could also try out using more sotf wild growths, but if you need it to get through a tight part and it saves the fight, than that's more justifiable than just doing more constant healing, and cultivation is effective, but on this fight, it'll be a bit weaker than sotf since people don't actually dip low enough for (although do note your higher mastery levels do help cultivation's performance and it does kinda' reward the way you are currently playing resto with a crapton of your stuff going into rejuvs)

and if flourish still feels a bit complicated to you, just take MoC it's not all that terrible until really tight fights where the duration buff matters more (and honestly just hitting a rot target with single target heals before a tank explodes is not a bad use of time or mana), or just use flourish more freely in general

4. artifact: you kinda fucked up by going down towards power of the archdruid, although it may look better for mana efficiency than up top, being able to get healing when you need it is a really big deal and still increases mana efficiency by just creating more raw throughput by almost as much as the lower traits (and you're close enough to looping back up that I can't really tell you what you'll be better off with)

smaller things: you used barkskin once, just do that more, even if it's a mediocre use of it, it's better than never using it, and spam wrath whenever you have time, not just at the start and end

a lot of these things my seem small but also have to remember that the other drood in your guild only actually did 40% more healing than you so the small increases add up and get you that high

[Deleted]

@ryklin, are you sure you are commenting about the right resto druid? You seem to be talking about Kardea, who runs Tree of Life and Germination, while OP is Kubeba, running SotF and Inner Peace.

[ryklin]

oh crap lol, who the fuck recruits 2 people of the same spec who both have 3 syllable K names, well then op is basically doing everything right other than maybe using a few more efflo's and he needs to be using lifebloom and OoC procs (the big one really) and possibly park some more hots on the active tank, and he could probably get in a few more WG's later in the fight and efflo's, also 0 barkskins and ironbarks is not good, seriously use that shit, bind both of them in an easy place to use, they're going to make or break some parts of elerethe mythic

but overall major cooldowns are being used efficiently and you used the talents you took properly, you could be using swiftmend and WG a few more times on some fights though so watch out for when you're capping on swiftmend charges on some fights

most the deaths on their later pulls were just people doing retarded shit like getting no heals with rot (probably from being out of range), bugs, or standing under the tank bomb, so not really the healers faults at all

the only big thing I think to do is coordinate healing cd's more for when each mc breaks as a unit as some of the mc breaks get really close to tank bombs and people can get really low as that seemed to be the on, and be quicker on b-rezzes (and then establish an understanding that people wait for some officer to confirm them taking it)

[Cheze]

I mean, you're 83rd percentile for overall and you killed the boss, which is well within the circumstances where I say to myself 'eh, good enough.' tbh it seems like you probably could easily four heal, unless you just really want the spare to account for possible healer death.

effloresence is pretty good in phase 1, depending on how you position the raid. Usually I can get it over 2-3 melee in such a way that ranged can also dip into the outer edge. You could probably squeeze a leytorrent in there too, if you really wanted to max out your rejuv spam

[Alltat]

I mean, you're 83rd percentile for overall and you killed the boss, which is well within the circumstances where I say to myself 'eh, good enough.'

Definitely. At some point, trying to optimize further will just get you to obsess over details and lose sight over the things that really matter. While things like 100% Lifebloom uptime sound nice, it's not something you actually want in practice, because it probably means you wasted at least one or two GCDs at times when you could have spent them on something more immediately useful and then put the Lifebloom back up a few seconds later.

If you're above 75% ranking and the boss died, just have a cookie and relax until the next fight.


...though in this particular case, you really should work on your Lifebloom uptime. It heals for twice as much as Rejuvenation (Dreamwalker procs included) and gives you free Regrowths. Casting it on a tank is optional.

[RestoSpirit]

Definitely. At some point, trying to optimize further will just get you to obsess over details and lose sight over the things that really matter. While things like 100% Lifebloom uptime sound nice, it's not something you actually want in practice, because it probably means you wasted at least one or two GCDs at times when you could have spent them on something more immediately useful and then put the Lifebloom back up a few seconds later.

If you're above 75% ranking and the boss died, just have a cookie and relax until the next fight.


...though in this particular case, you really should work on your Lifebloom uptime. It heals for twice as much as Rejuvenation (Dreamwalker procs included) and gives you free Regrowths. Casting it on a tank is optional.

Hey,

I think lifebloom uptime is not that important, mine in this log -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...3&type=healing
is at around 30% and I'm still doing a lot of healing.

As for OP, maybe you should try different talents Cultivation is really good on mythic fights since the raid damage is so high it proccs all the time. I fucked up a lot in this fight and still got 95%.. just by comparing your healing curve over the fight and mine I would say you should anticipate the predictable damage better and prehot the raid, especially right before MC hits you should have hots on everyone to procc insane dreamwalkers after they get out. Your tranq did quite a lot of overhealing, maybe tell your fellow-healers that you use it so they can save their mana and you get more out of your CD.

EDIT: Just checked your log again, in a 7 sec longer fight you have 35 reju's less then I have, thats 35 GCD's you missed, probably the most important problem to work on. That's a whooping 10million heal you missed there.

Cheers
RestoSpirit

[Alltat]

I think lifebloom uptime is not that important...

Well, you uptime as such doesn't really matter, but you can't deny that it's a better spell than Rejuvenation in pretty much every way except the target cap. A low uptime means you're not using it very much, which is wasted potential. It's not like previous expansions where there was any particular point to keeping it rolling on a target, but it's by far the best single target HoT we have, so casting Rejuvenation when you could be casting Lifebloom is bad.

...is at around 30% and I'm still doing a lot of healing.

But you could be doing more! It's basically a powerful spell with a 15 second cooldown that you're only casting every minute.

[RestoSpirit]

Well, you uptime as such doesn't really matter, but you can't deny that it's a better spell than Rejuvenation in pretty much every way except the target cap. A low uptime means you're not using it very much, which is wasted potential. It's not like previous expansions where there was any particular point to keeping it rolling on a target, but it's by far the best single target HoT we have, so casting Rejuvenation when you could be casting Lifebloom is bad.


But you could be doing more! It's basically a powerful spell with a 15 second cooldown that you're only casting every minute.

You are absoluty right, spell by spell LB beats reju in every way, but reju has a few benefits (not sure about the exact math but Im sure someone will calculate it):
a) Dreamwalker proccs on Reju not on LB
b) Cultivation proccs on targets effected by reju below 60%

So the question now: Is it more important to keep LB rolling or make sure an additional target has reju to have the chance to procc cultivation and dreamwalker?

EDIT: I used to swap LB to targets who dropped low in WoD, but since the manacosts got nerfed I don't think its worth anymore.

Cheers
RestoSpirit

[Alltat]

You are absoluty right, spell by spell LB beats reju in every way, but reju has a few benefits (not sure about the exact math but Im sure someone will calculate it):
a) Dreamwalker proccs on Reju not on LB
b) Cultivation proccs on targets effected by reju below 60%

So the question now: Is it more important to keep LB rolling or make sure an additional target has reju to have the chance to procc cultivation and dreamwalker?

Even with those included, Lifebloom still heals for roughly twice as much per cast (with the trait, but it's more regardless). And that's taking overhealing of the bloom into account. You also get Clearcasting procs. Keeping it rolling on one target is optional. It works just as well when moved between targets, as long as you don't cast it on a new target until it has bloomed.

[Actarius]

@RestoSpirit @Alltat @ryklin

Thanks guys! I never really did the math out, and I always heard lifebloom's bloom at the end overheals a lot so I tend to never use it, but I'll start doing so now.
I'll try out Cenarion's Ward & Cultivation next week for mythic/heroic.

As for Ironbark, it's a floating tank external so I'm not allowed to use it unless a tank calls for it. Barkskin I'll definitely use for Rot or after-MC next week.

I do seem to run out of mana at the end of the fight, I think I was sitting OOM for the last 30 or so seconds. Same thing happened on our Renferal kill yesterday, I was oom going from the 2nd to the third platform (last 30-45 seconds or so)

[RestoSpirit]

You can cast LB again on the LB-target in the last 4-5 sec before it runs out to make it bloom early, reduces the overheal but its insane to keep track of that throught a mythic raid encounter.

Anyway I will try out more LB in my next heroic clearrun and see how much overheal the hot and bloom really do. Assuming high overheal, reju becomes more viable (especially if you just LB the tank who is constantly topped by 2-3 other healers).

Cheers
RestoSpirit

[Actarius]

@RestoSpirit

I'll do the same. I always use it in m+ since I'm the only healer, but with my raid, we have a high ranking paladin and shaman who just unload into the tanks half the time haha.

[RestoSpirit]

Hehe yeah, we are happy about our 500k RG crit and boom there is the shaman criting for 1.1m. Really looking forward to solohealing mythic in a few weeks.

[ryklin]

@RestoSpirit @Alltat @ryklin

Thanks guys! I never really did the math out, and I always heard lifebloom's bloom at the end overheals a lot so I tend to never use it, but I'll start doing so now.
I'll try out Cenarion's Ward & Cultivation next week for mythic/heroic.

As for Ironbark, it's a floating tank external so I'm not allowed to use it unless a tank calls for it. Barkskin I'll definitely use for Rot or after-MC next week.

I do seem to run out of mana at the end of the fight, I think I was sitting OOM for the last 30 or so seconds. Same thing happened on our Renferal kill yesterday, I was oom going from the 2nd to the third platform (last 30-45 seconds or so)

you don't want lifebloom up for the healing bomb (it's actually slightly worse than rejuv's sometimes right now, instead of last xpac where it was broken) it's that it has a chance to give you a free regrowth about every 20 seconds and can mastery buff a rejuv on a tank or someone with who's eating high damage and free regrowths are nice and also mean more mastery bonuses

[Tiberria]

So the question now: Is it more important to keep LB rolling or make sure an additional target has reju to have the chance to procc cultivation and dreamwalker?

I think it's still more important to keep LB at a reasonable uptime than it is to get one extra Rejuv cast off because
(1) Clearcasting procs - mana is much more constrained now than it was last expansion, which increases the value of OOC procs. The difference between 50% and 90% Lifebloom uptime is about 10 extra free Regrowth casts in a 10 minute fight, which can be a pretty big deal.
(2) You're probably not taking Cultivation on every fight, and when you do, you won't always have an extra <60% HP target to proc it off.
(3) Dreamwalker is RNG, and only matters if you are going to cast 1+ WGs during the 18 seconds that Rejuv is up. Plus, reducing your LB uptime results in less OOC procs, more mana spent, and less WG that you can afford.

I think it's probably worth leaving Lifebloom to get off a good Wild Growth or a good Wild Growth combo (i.e. if you have SoTF - SM - WG - Flourish/Essence of G'Hanir) or to refresh Efflo if it's doing effective healing. I don't think an extra Rejuv is strong enough to cut your uptime though. You probably still want ~85% uptime as a bare minimum. With it having a Pandemic mechanic, and automatically triggering the bloom in the last 4 seconds when you refresh it, it's perfectly possible to maintain uptime by being smart about refreshing it earlier.

[RestoSpirit]

I think it's still more important to keep LB at a reasonable uptime than it is to get one extra Rejuv cast off because
(1) Clearcasting procs - mana is much more constrained now than it was last expansion, which increases the value of OOC procs. The difference between 50% and 90% Lifebloom uptime is about 10 extra free Regrowth casts in a 10 minute fight, which can be a pretty big deal.
(2) You're probably not taking Cultivation on every fight, and when you do, you won't always have an extra <60% HP target to proc it off.
(3) Dreamwalker is RNG, and only matters if you are going to cast 1+ WGs during the 18 seconds that Rejuv is up. Plus, reducing your LB uptime results in less OOC procs, more mana spent, and less WG that you can afford.

Hey,

I disagree with some of your points, since you don't get a look at "the optimal way to play" without considering your raidsetup/which boss it is(which you actually mentioned in (2).

(1) If we single out the Restodruid, yeah legion gives us little room for error considering how fast we go oom, but then again legion gives us innervates which means you can cast what you want for 10sec and it doesn't matter for your mana-management. Let's take our raidsetup for an example, we have 4 boomkins and me as the restodruid. That's 50sec of freecasting every 3min of fight so 27% of the time im not using my mana, which means I can cast what has the most throughput. Is LB+RG sill better then 2 rejus with that in mind?
(2) You're right, some fights don't work that way, sometimes you rather take Sotf and keeping LB and RG clearcasts going when not much else happens is the only logical way to help out the raid.
(3) Again you're right Dreamwalker is RNG and RNG for healers sucks, but with a blanketed raid and Flourish I can have Reju on everyone and get at least 2, more likely 3 WG out which is 1.25 proccs every minute for ~1.5-4 million heal

The benefits for LB are clear, you save mana, its the better heal and when you control the bloom its every effective, but is it more effective when mana is not a concern and tankhealing is taken care of by someone else?

Cheers
RestoSpirit

[Tiberria]

Hey,

I disagree with some of your points, since you don't get a look at "the optimal way to play" without considering your raidsetup/which boss it is(which you actually mentioned in (2).

(1) If we single out the Restodruid, yeah legion gives us little room for error considering how fast we go oom, but then again legion gives us innervates which means you can cast what you want for 10sec and it doesn't matter for your mana-management. Let's take our raidsetup for an example, we have 4 boomkins and me as the restodruid. That's 50sec of freecasting every 3min of fight so 27% of the time im not using my mana, which means I can cast what has the most throughput. Is LB+RG sill better then 2 rejus with that in mind?
(2) You're right, some fights don't work that way, sometimes you rather take Sotf and keeping LB and RG clearcasts going when not much else happens is the only logical way to help out the raid.
(3) Again you're right Dreamwalker is RNG and RNG for healers sucks, but with a blanketed raid and Flourish I can have Reju on everyone and get at least 2, more likely 3 WG out which is 1.25 proccs every minute for ~1.5-4 million heal

The benefits for LB are clear, you save mana, its the better heal and when you control the bloom its every effective, but is it more effective when mana is not a concern and tankhealing is taken care of by someone else?

Cheers
RestoSpirit

Well, for starters, you really shouldn't be taking any Boomkin innervates, let alone all 4 of them (!!!), since we aren't as effective at converting mana free casts into extra throughput (really the only high cost things we can do in a 10 second window are 1 WG and 1 Efflo then Rejuv spam). They are much better on other specs with heavier mana dumps like Disc/MW/Shaman, so getting 5 innervates is a ridiculous edge case that shouldn't happen to begin with.

As far as Rejuv vs LB, LB is 25% more throughput than Rejuv per cast when you include the hot+bloom. Once you get the Blooms of G'Hanir artifact trait (which will be soon because this should likely be the 27th trait you take), it will be 48% more throughput than Rejuv per cast. Assuming you have 10% mastery, yes, a Cultivation Rejuv is about the same total throughput as a Lifebloom (until you get the Lifebloom trait). However, that's still not factoring in the ability to layer LB on top of Rejuv to get an additional mastery gain, and is not factoring in the extra Clearcasting procs, and the Cultivation bonus is useless if you don't take the talent or don't have an extra <60% HP target to put it on.

I still think that keeping LB up > casting an extra Rejuv in all situations currently, and it will become a total non brainer as you reach artifact trait #27.

[RestoSpirit]

Well, for starters, you really shouldn't be taking any Boomkin innervates, let alone all 4 of them (!!!), since we aren't as effective at converting mana free casts into extra throughput (really the only high cost things we can do in a 10 second window are 1 WG and 1 Efflo then Rejuv spam). They are much better on other specs with heavier mana dumps like Disc/MW/Shaman, so getting 5 innervates is a ridiculous edge case that shouldn't happen to begin with.

I talked to our MW/shaman about the innervates and they think, they can't pull nearly as much effective HPS with it because they can't target nearly as much people as I can. Plus the fact that they almost never run oom.

As for the shaman, his artifact-trait boosts his healing during bloodlust, combined with rapid innervation would mean insanely fast chainheals, but since on most bosses you use BL on pull/or when BL is up there is nothing to heal we decided its a waste of free-stats.

I think restodruid converts haste into effective HPS better then any other class, since not only do I get a 1sec GCD (+20% from rapid innervation gets me to ~50% haste) but all of the heals I use during innervation make use of the extra haste. Besides that Chainheal is much more likely to produce overheal compared to a reju or WG, but im curious can anyone do the math for MW/shaman and innervates (20% haste from rapid innervation, since all of our boomkins have it) for the case of no overheal?

I forgot about the LB-artifact-trait, clearly better choice once I unlock it.

Cheers
RestoSpirit