Is dalaran a better city now Jaina's gone?

[Trassk]

Although its hard to say what dalaran had become like when Jaina was its leader, on a community level, we know her hatred for the horde had caused the rift between the elven factions in it, so I don't think its much of a stretch to believe any race in dalaran that could be associated with the horde would have been treated like criminals and locked up in the violet hold at best, we had evidence of that back in mists when we saved the sunreavers.

Now, looking around dalaran now under khadgars rule, its obvious the city has become a lot more mixed in terms of its community, even more then it was in wrath days. In wrath, we'd see the occational mixture of other races wandering around the city, but mostly the occupants in the shops and businesses were all mostly human or elf, given the status of the city, it has been a human and elf run city for a long time.
Now we see tauren, forsaken, goblin, worgen, blood and high elf, troll, orc, dwarf, pandaren, all races part of the dalaran community, and I just think all this came most recently from khadgar opening the city to far more mix of races. Its something I'd have liked to have seen played out.

Its funny how remembering Jaina saying back in mists how she hoped to have dalaran as a beacon of hope for the rest of azeroth coming together, and yet from the get go she let her 'betrayal' from the sunreavers break that, since its obvious from how dalaran it today, with all races coming together in it, she was wrong, and the city now stands exactly as she originally wanted it to be. Kind of ironic khadgar did what she wasn't able to.

[KaPe]

Funny how you "forget" to mention reasons for Jaina's actions back in MoP. She didn't just randomly decide to imprison Blood Elves for no reason. Sure, most of general populace was innocent, but certain individuals did betray her trust. Yeah, sure, they had their "reasons" - mostly avoiding Garrosh's wrath - but when thinking like that, so did she.

Khadgar didn't have to deal with anything like that. Imagine if Greymane stole some priceless Dalaran artifact to use it against Sylvanas. Or maybe she decided she need a few of those to better protect "Horde's interests". Or any other significant conflict that would directly threaten Dalaran's neutrality and would require some difficult decisions from him.

So far, he's been doing a good job, but wasn't challenged in nearly the same way as Jaina.

[Trassk]

I didn't need to mention what happened because anyone can look it up easily.

Your just taking a one sided look at it, and I really don't want to make this into another pissing contest for that whole affair. The faction war is bullshit, the current gen vs sylvanas war is garbage, and I find better solace in things like the structure of dalarans community then I do the idiotic blame game that blizzard forces so hard to make relevant.

And I honestly believe if Sylvanas or Genn stole aritfacts from dalaran to use in their pathetic war between one another, khadar, unlike Jaina, would have more rational sense and not cause a faction break in dalaran like she did.

[Tyrion Moonblade]

Although its hard to say what dalaran had become like when Jaina was its leader, on a community level, we know her hatred for the horde had caused the rift between the elven factions in it, so I don't think its much of a stretch to believe any race in dalaran that could be associated with the horde would have been treated like criminals and locked up in the violet hold at best, we had evidence of that back in mists when we saved the sunreavers.

Have you ever played the Alliance side? Or, moreover, have you ever used the neutral city of dalaran as a Horde agent as a staging point to attack an Alliance city to steal yet another WMD for Garrosh? And you're acting like Jaina's actions were completely unwarranted? Or is it just that you don't care about facts?

Now, looking around dalaran now under khadgars rule, its obvious the city has become a lot more mixed in terms of its community, even more then it was in wrath days. In wrath, we'd see the occational mixture of other races wandering around the city, but mostly the occupants in the shops and businesses were all mostly human or elf, given the status of the city, it has been a human and elf run city for a long time.
Now we see tauren, forsaken, goblin, worgen, blood and high elf, troll, orc, dwarf, pandaren, all races part of the dalaran community, and I just think all this came most recently from khadgar opening the city to far more mix of races. Its something I'd have liked to have seen played out.

Yes I'm sure all of that diversity took place just in the month or so Khadgar has been in "control".

Its funny how remembering Jaina saying back in mists how she hoped to have dalaran as a beacon of hope for the rest of azeroth coming together, and yet from the get go she let her 'betrayal' from the sunreavers break that, since its obvious from how dalaran it today, with all races coming together in it, she was wrong, and the city now stands exactly as she originally wanted it to be. Kind of ironic khadgar did what she wasn't able to.

You keep referring to how Jaina wanted Dalaran to be, a shining beacon of hope.. then put "betrayal" in airquotes like the fucking horde savages didn't nuke one city, abuse the neutral stance of the kirin tor to steal a WMD from another city, and basically just fuck her over every chance they possibly could.

Khadgar looks high AF in that pic.

[Aquamonkey]

Khadgar didn't have to deal with anything like that. Imagine if Greymane stole some priceless Dalaran artifact to use it against Sylvanas. Or maybe she decided she need a few of those to better protect "Horde's interests". Or any other significant conflict that would directly threaten Dalaran's neutrality and would require some difficult decisions from him.

The Horde didn't steal anything from Dalaran. They took the Focusing Iris from the Blue Dragonflight. They took the Divine Bell from Darnassus. ...Unlike the time Jaina actually stole a Dalaran artifact to use against the Horde.

[Zandalariprelate]

Is hard to say, Dalaran now is ocupated by worgens and forsaken, i actually i think mostly people would think his goverment is now looking for some artifacts to save the world instead of them and are the dispensable part

[Nitros14]

Il'gynoth told me Jaina is going to turn into an Old God thing and kill Sylvanas. https://youtu.be/eEuk6bVPWCk?t=6s

So yes to your question.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The Horde didn't steal anything from Dalaran. They took the Focusing Iris from the Blue Dragonflight. They took the Divine Bell from Darnassus. ...Unlike the time Jaina actually stole a Dalaran artifact to use against the Horde.

Which ended up not happening like at all thanks to Thrall and Kalec(I think Kalec helped, memory is foggy). Either way, Blizzard forgot that War Crimes existed and made her go "ME NO TRUST HORDE!"


<.<

[Trassk]

Which ended up not happening like at all thanks to Thrall and Kalec(I think Kalec helped, memory is foggy). Either way, Blizzard forgot that War Crimes existed and made her go "ME NO TRUST HORDE!"


<.<

You mean the part where she ended up overcoming her hatred and even getting friendly with thrall again, yeah, they didn't really give a shit about that in the end.

[Mehrunes]

Funny how you "forget" to mention reasons for Jaina's actions back in MoP. She didn't just randomly decide to imprison Blood Elves for no reason. Sure, most of general populace was innocent, but certain individuals did betray her trust. Yeah, sure, they had their "reasons" - mostly avoiding Garrosh's wrath - but when thinking like that, so did she.

No individuals. Individual. War Crimes talks about only one Sunreaver agent. And she didn't care about that either way. Jaina didn't give a shit about investigating the situation or anything of the kind, she just tried to abuse her authority as leader of the Council to kick them out and when that failed abused her position to commit ethnic cleansing using foreign troops. All the while being a hypocrite because she broke Dalaran's neutrality first. Funny how you "forgot" these details.

Khadgar didn't have to deal with anything like that. Imagine if Greymane stole some priceless Dalaran artifact to use it against Sylvanas. Or maybe she decided she need a few of those to better protect "Horde's interests". Or any other significant conflict that would directly threaten Dalaran's neutrality and would require some difficult decisions from him.

So far, he's been doing a good job, but wasn't challenged in nearly the same way as Jaina.

The moment Jaina became challenged that way she came running to Darnassus to aid the Alliance by personally killing Horde troops or capturing them as POWs. Something tells me Khadgar, or anyone else for that matter, would fare better if challenged the same way as Jaina. Because the way she handled it was monumental failure. +What Aqua said.

Have you ever played the Alliance side? Or, moreover, have you ever used the neutral city of dalaran as a Horde agent as a staging point to attack an Alliance city to steal yet another WMD for Garrosh? And you're acting like Jaina's actions were completely unwarranted? Or is it just that you don't care about facts?

Infiltrate, not attack. After Jaina already went there to aid the Alliance and, you know, break neutrality first. How's that for facts?

You keep referring to how Jaina wanted Dalaran to be, a shining beacon of hope.. then put "betrayal" in airquotes like the fucking horde savages didn't nuke one city, abuse the neutral stance of the kirin tor to steal a WMD from another city, and basically just fuck her over every chance they possibly could.

Yes, the Horde betrayed Jaina oh, so much by nuking a hostile city state. She abused Dalaran's neutrality first (and prior to that convinced Rhonin to do the same), attacked Barrens before Garrosh attacked Ashenvale and was the one straining relations more in vanilla. But sure, it's totally poor, oppressed Jaina that's fucked over by the Horde at every opportunity.

[Trassk]

just to clear this up too, I have 12 alliance alts at lv 100-105 and leveling, including my alliance main draenei monk. Why anyone nowadays would stick to playing one faction seems ridiculous to me.

[Selastan]

Heh, Dalaran WITH Jaina wasn't even a city. Just a target.

[Sorshen]

Yeah, it has no fucking dreadlords in it.

[Zaelsino]

I'd say yes in that Khadgar comes off as a more reasonable leader than Jaina, with a much better temperament. He actually confers with his council before making big decisions (in contrast to Jaina, who disregards their counsel and claims that only her word is law), and doesn't dodge his responsibilities (Jaina once literally hid in the corner of her office, invisible, when she couldn't be bothered to do her job.)

The only real glimpse we had into Jaina's rule was in DotA, which painted her as a somewhat negligent leader more interested in her boyfriend's business ("to Jaina, nothing else mattered") than dealing with the Kirin Tor's. I mean, you can argue if her constant rage is justified, but the Kirin Tor were idiots in the first place to invite a person suffering fresh, severe, and thoroughly unresolved emotional trauma to make their political decisions.

As for Dalaran itself, who knows, it's cursed with leaders constantly putting the city in the middle of war zones. If I were a Kirin Tor apprentice, I'd roll my eyes at Rhonin and Jaina and Khadgar equally for changing our city's allegiance every ten minutes and forcing me to take my classes with fel fireballs raining down just outside.

[Deleted]

Jaina was right, just like Magneto.
You guys simply don't get it because you are Xavier Fanboys.

[MikeBogina]

Dalaran is only interesting and relevant, when they're not siding with the Alliance over the Horde.

TBH, Dalaran is lucky Garrosh didn't make a preemptive attack on it, like he should have, for all the shit they pulled with aiding the Alliance while claiming neutrality.

[Garfurion]

Although its hard to say what dalaran had become like when Jaina was its leader, on a community level, we know her hatred for the horde had caused the rift between the elven factions in it,

Jaina had nothing to do with the rift between Blood, High and Night Elves. It existed long (in some cases 10.000 years) before she became leader of Dalaran.

[Deleted]

Dalaran is only interesting and relevant, when they're not siding with the Alliance over the Horde.

TBH, Dalaran is lucky Garrosh didn't make a preemptive attack on it, like he should have, for all the shit they pulled with aiding the Alliance while claiming neutrality.

I like Dalaran more as a Part of the Alliance. After all, it is one of the last remaining Human Kingdoms, it is the Humans Magician Faction, it is a nation of Humans and High Elves. I just hate that it's always the Alliance that has to give up their stuff into neutrality.

[Maleific]

I like Dalaran more as a Part of the Alliance. After all, it is one of the last remaining Human Kingdoms, it is the Humans Magician Faction, it is a nation of Humans and High Elves. I just hate that it's always the Alliance that has to give up their stuff into neutrality.

Personally i'd like it more if Dalaran remained Alliance-only, meanwhile horde magi are based from Silvermoon. I wish that everything magical/ mage related wasn't monopolised by them.

[Aucald]

Personally i'd like it more if Dalaran remained Alliance-only, meanwhile horde magi are based from Silvermoon. I wish that everything magical/ mage related wasn't monopolised by them.

I'd just like for Silvermoon to be relevant once more (if it ever truly was). It's a beautiful place and it's a shame to see it go so underutilized. They should follow Dalaran's example and levitate Silvermoon to the Broken Isles.