His rebirth will be the story of your redemption.

[Makorus]

Why do people use some weird third person omniscient point of view to describe why it was wrong to kill Illidan?

Like, if you didn't actually know what he was doing, and you knew his history, of course you would think that he was about to fuck up Azeroth.

Like, everything in TBC was a perfect continuation of what he did in WC3/TFT, but we didn't have any insight into his motives like we did in WC3.

[Kralljin]

who knows, if Tyrande appeared he wouldn't be that crazy.

Probably not.

Tyrande's appearance on the Broken Isles didn't mean shit to Illidan, and that was before he went nuts.

instead we got a lunatic out of no where with no build up, which is why TBC sucked.

The whole build up was Warcraft 3:TFT.

[DemonHunter18]

Probably not.

Tyrande's appearance on the Broken Isles didn't mean shit to Illidan, and that was before he went nuts.



The whole build up was Warcraft 3:TFT.

he was destroying the Frozen Throne not Azeroth. sure, the side effect of destroying it would be bad, maybe he didn't know.

there was no build up up in WC3. he got rekted and retreated back to Outland. making him a villain and to kill him off like that was totally not necessary.

I guess Sylvanas should have been killed and yet she is running around Azeroth with "innocent" license.

[Makorus]

he was destroying the Frozen Throne not Azeroth. sure, the side effect of destroying it would be bad, maybe he didn't know.

it was not a build up in WC3. he got rekted and retreated back to Outland. making him a villain and to kill him off like that was totally not necessary.

I guess Sylvanas should have been killed and yet she is running around Azeroth with "innocent" license.

How so? He went farther and farther to defend what he likes from the Legion. Didn't stop from using any means necessary. Never talking to anyone and explaining that he is fighting the Legion.

This went to an extreme in TBC where he basically turns Orcs into Fel Orcs and uses demons to fight the Legion, and once again, doesn't talk to anyone and just expects everyone to 1.) allow what he is doing randomly and 2.) know what he is doing.

[DemonHunter18]

How so? He went farther and farther to defend what he likes from the Legion. Didn't stop from using any means necessary. Never talking to anyone and explaining that he is fighting the Legion.

This went to an extreme in TBC where he basically turns Orcs into Fel Orcs and uses demons to fight the Legion, and once again, doesn't talk to anyone and just expects everyone to 1.) allow what he is doing randomly and 2.) know what he is doing.

I never said that he didn't do anything wrong. at least in the book it was explained better. that's all I'm saying.

[Dragoncurry]

Honestly, it doesn't matter. Fuck Illidan. This whole redemption story is stupid.

Everything the Shadow Priest weapon tells you about him is true. He's just tormented and he lashes out at everyone because he is haunted by his own actions and is desensitized to the value of things due to his "any means necessary" bullshit.

[Kralljin]

he was destroying the Frozen Throne not Azeroth.

Not really the point.

The point was that Illidan during BC was seen as a potential threat to Azeroth, promise to Malfurion or not, Malfurion himself said that Illidan was insane during Vanilla, so there's that.

the side effect of destroying it would be bad, maybe he didn't know.

He simply didn't give a shit.

Honestly, trying to split a continent and not assuming that there would be some "bad side effects" is lunacy.

it was not a build up in WC3. he got rekted and retreated back to Outland. making him a villain and to kill him off like that was totally not necessary.

Feel free to read my previous post(s) in this thread regarding this subject.

I guess Sylvanas should have been killed and yet she is running around Azeroth with "innocent" license.

Still waiting for that day.

[DemonHunter18]

Not really the point.

The point was that Illidan during BC was seen as a potential threat to Azeroth, promise to Malfurion or not, Malfurion himself said that Illidan was insane during Vanilla, so there's that.

see??? that's the point. if you think that Illidan being a villain, and a great villain that is LMAO, during the TBC was great then I don't know what to say. sure, killing him was a right thing but they totally missed the direction of Illidan, especially when WotA trilogy came before TBC.

- - - Updated - - -

Still waiting for that day.

now that made me laugh

[Kralljin]

see??? that's the point. if you think that Illidan being a villain, and a great villain that is LMAO, during the TBC was great then I don't know what to say.

Huh? Where did i say he was a great villain?

The stage for this was setup in Warcraft 3, his Allies, remains of Magtheridons forces, the Naga and the Blood elves, his seat of power.

We didn't go to Outland to kill Illidan, we went there to protect us from the Legion, then realized that Illidans forces are all over Outland and rather hostile towards us, and that they enslave people which are related to members of the Horde / Alliance.

If you then add up the fact that Illidan has a large army, is insane according to his own actions and brother + the fact that there's an active link between Outland and Azeroth, it doesn't take a genius to think that Illidan may be a potential threat to Azeroth on the long run.

Especially when WotA trilogy came before TBC.

The novel ended with his justified imprisonment, without his blood ties to Malfurion, he probably would have lost his head there.

[DemonHunter18]

read again. making him a villain was a bad move and he turned out to be a shitty one. they could have gone with a different route and that goes for Kael and Vashj as well.

[Zulkhan]

read again. making him a villain was a bad move and he turned out to be a shitty one. they could have gone with a different route.

It has little to do with Illidan himself but rather the fact that TBC sucked in terms of storytelling altogether. It's quite a fact that before WotLK came out telling a proper story was little more than an afterthought in regards of WoW. Even the introductory cinematic of the expansion changed dramatically from WotLK on, where it properly became a tool to introduce the story rather than just the expansion's content with a lot of flashy images.

[Crashen]

He was a bad villain, but a worse hero. He died because he was an asshole to everyone and became a threat. As someone else said, he lost any sense of the value of things with his "sacrifice anything" mentality. Hell, his nihilistic insanity even lead to him HELPING SINESTRA AND DEATHWING. Don't forget that in addition to creating fel orcs, he experimented on nether drakes and sold their eggs to Sinestra and the Black Flight.

[DemonHunter18]

It has little to do with Illidan himself but rather the fact that TBC sucked in terms of storytelling altogether. It's quite a fact that before WotLK came out telling a proper story was little more than an afterthought in regards of WoW. Even the introductory cinematic of the expansion changed dramatically from WotLK on, where it properly became a tool to introduce the story rather than just the expansion's content with a lot of flashy images.

very true. Illidan, Kael and Vashj were wasted.

[Kralljin]

read again. making him a villain was a bad move and he turned out to be a shitty one.

The main issue was the lack of storytelling rather than Illidan himself.

[DemonHunter18]

The main issue was the lack of storytelling rather than Illidan himself.

it was both. Kael and Vashj were also wasted. the only grip I have with this is Illidan being some stupid angel. everything else is on point.

[Kralljin]

it was both. Kael and Vashj were also wasted. the only grip I have with this is Illidan being some stupid angel. everything else is on point.

I can only redirect you to the very same discussion ~5 Pages ago.

[Animalhouse]

Shit writing is shit writing. It's why I don't give a damn about lore. Blizz has fumbled the lore so many times and honestly their writing is HORRIBLE.
If I want to read some proper Human, Orc, Dwarf and dragon story I will read Tolkien who they ripped off.

I like the characters to a point but Blizz never ceases to amaze me with how bad they fuck up character development.
I will never forgive them for the Thrall direction....seriously just WTF.

[Nethlord]

So i completed the Illidan storyline on live now, though i had to put myself through this rather painful questchain, the finale just blew me away.

Not the Illidan fight, no, the completion questtext for a character that killed Illidan. (The questtext is different for DH and character that did not kill Illidan)



http://www.wowhead.com/quest=44481/destiny-unfulfilled

Personally, i couldn't stand Xe'ra and this Illidan praise, yet the final sentence just takes the cake.

So the story Legion concerning Illidan is not about him, but rather we have to redeem ourselves because we killed him.

So Illidan moves from a grey character, to a pure villain, to the ultimate good in the Universe that we foolishly killed while our hearts and minds were corrupted by hatred.

I don't have any issues with the player character not being the ultimate hero all the time, but this is just awful.

Edit:

If you did not kill Illidan:



If you're a DH.

You know, I didn't think much of this because I figured there was going to be something else coming; some more narrative, but really....this is where their storytellers wanted to take the narrative....we were the bad guys of TBC?

Which we had zero control over
That Illidan was portrayed as to be up to some super evil stuff/Blizzard gave us ZERO OTHER THING TO DO IN OUTLAND TO FIND OUT "THE TRUTH!!"

I can take a lot of things in games with a grain of salt, but this...I don't think I've actually been more mad at Blizzard for this now. The sheer amount of contempt they have for their playerbase is amazing. This is right up there with the damn tombstone outside the garrison with the name "Ray D Tear" or how AU Grommash gets off scot-free at the end of WoD. This is some outright insane writing.

It's gotta be something else, I mean Xe'ra has to be something other than a Naaru? I play a lock and when you bring that thing into your class hall, one of the demons says that I am bringing the enemy into the hall. I figured that on the surface it's a being of pure light and we are working with fel and demons so they don't go together. Even with the "naaru" talking to illidan in the novel I don't think Xe'ra is a naaru, not after that prelude comic with an old king anduin in it.

Xe'ra....is a old god, and that is how the expansion is going to end.

[Deleted]

it was both. Kael and Vashj were also wasted. the only grip I have with this is Illidan being some stupid angel. everything else is on point.

It especially sucks since there is still no Blood Elf Character who is that iconic like Kael'thas. Humans at least got Varian, who became a fairly iconic Character for humanity.

[Jastall]

It has little to do with Illidan himself but rather the fact that TBC sucked in terms of storytelling altogether. It's quite a fact that before WotLK came out telling a proper story was little more than an afterthought in regards of WoW. Even the introductory cinematic of the expansion changed dramatically from WotLK on, where it properly became a tool to introduce the story rather than just the expansion's content with a lot of flashy images.

Yeah, true, TBC's story kinda sucked in general. It's barely explained why we're even in Outland to begin with, and Vashj, Kael and Illidan (all of whom were anti-heroic characters in TFT to greater or lesser degrees) get turned into evil, monologue-spouting raid bosses.

I mean, all of WoW's expansions had some degrees of terrible writing of course, Blizzard being Blizzard. In BC, it seems like they didn't even bother giving us reasons for doing stuff beyond ''they're evil, now go kill them and collect your purples''. Which I guess still continues to this day, but they at least try to up the stakes a bit and provide some context.

To continue on the vein of what someone else said, the whole ''redemption'' bit is even more hilariously stupud if you play a class like Warlock or DK. You're a damn near amoral killing machine that does whatever they feel is required to destroy their enemies, including spreading catastrophic diseases, summoning demons or ghouls (where do those come from again?), and using souls in a variety of creative ways. Any and all adventurers commit genocide on a daily basis if they can get some coin and a hat in exchange. We massacre each other daily for no real reason beyond ''they're alliance, kill 'em!''.

But all that counts for nothing, our karma is intact. When we kill Illidan-senpai, however? Ye gods, what have we done. We must embark on a pilgrimage of atonement for this most grievous of sins. To cap it all off, the guy isn't even really dead.