Entire 7.1 Nightfallen Storyline

[Mace]

They might become more tranquil, but their mind would still pretty much remain a potato so to speak.

exactly, there is no return for the withered. I don't expect them to be carrying nightborne nobles either like we are seeing the loyalists are doing to some of the less affluent nightborne in the city. Thalyssra would never allow it. If she ends up in charge. Funny you see in SUramar that they can easily use magic to drive those carriages, as witnessed in one of the areas a quest sends you by, but the loyalists have nightborne actually doing it for them. I was disgusted and wanted to smash his face in. Do they still do that sort of thing in some countries like in Arabia where slavery still happens?

[Friendlyimmolation]

I don't think it works on Withered. But who knows, Thalysra may continue her research. Speaking of Runas though, is he even around after the quest when he becomes a Withered? And I don't really get why he became a Withered in the first place. We fed him shortly prior to that. And he was chilling in magic pond of the dragons. Given how it's lack of food that triggers the process it didn't make much sense in that context. Even less than in Lyndras' case.

quite sad actually, I think he was trying to control his addiction, I don't think he realized that trying to stop feeding on mana would only make it worse.

[Mace]

I'm thinking we are going to have either Illidan/Thalyssra, Illidan/Maiev or Illidan/Kor'vas - what I would be surprised is if we have a rekindling of Illidan/Tyrande - but we can't take that off the table... that would be.. "oh oh" - Warcraft wouldn't dare do 3-way thing, even for or especially with a high priestess who's supposed to be a holy woman. Unless they kill Malfurion .... which I would hate, cos I really like him.

Move over Thalyssra/Tyrande/Kor'vas - what would be scandelous if is returning hero Illidan, shacks up with Ellisande (if she survives).. now that would be real drama - love triangles are old, and they've done Tyrande/Mal/Illidan enough. Let her be with her husband and get mixed signals from Illidan, and she from him but no more. The real drama would be if Illidan saves the day and city, welcomed as a hero and saviour in Suramar by all, and then hooks up or falls in love with repentant Ellisande who came round. They can take that some very interesting places.

And don't be so hasty to have Illidan in Suramar, though, he is likely to wreak it to "save" it. If the nightwell survives he would probably be pouring and trying to utilize all it's power to launch the attack on the legion, at least any felsworn nightborne might turn to our side, but he might mean more fel in the city, and i'd hate that.

[Karon]

I don't think you should do what i want unless you want to by your own volition. But as someone who creates content you should value constructive criticism.

"Do you even" is neither constructive nor even criticism.

It's Edgelord behaviour.

[Mehrunes]

quite sad actually, I think he was trying to control his addiction, I don't think he realized that trying to stop feeding on mana would only make it worse.

Hmm, maybe. Actually, that would sort of explain why he turned into a Withered despite recently eating. It would be kind of like refeeding syndrome, where eating after a long period of starvation can actually be deadly.

[ravenmoon]

Move over Thalyssra/Tyrande/Kor'vas - what would be scandelous if is returning hero Illidan, shacks up with Ellisande (if she survives).. now that would be real drama - love triangles are old, and they've done Tyrande/Mal/Illidan enough. Let her be with her husband and get mixed signals from Illidan, and she from him but no more. The real drama would be if Illidan saves the day and city, welcomed as a hero and saviour in Suramar by all, and then hooks up or falls in love with repentant Ellisande who came round. They can take that some very interesting places.

And don't be so hasty to have Illidan in Suramar, though, he is likely to wreak it to "save" it. If the nightwell survives he would probably be pouring and trying to utilize all it's power to launch the attack on the legion, at least any felsworn nightborne might turn to our side, but he might mean more fel in the city, and i'd hate that.

I'm not sure what the humane thing would be to do. Thalyssra strikes me as very compassionate, and willing to help, kinda like Tyrande should've been.. but when you gather the withered she does tell you that they'd be willing to help - presumably she would understand being nightfallen and having being unjustly exiled, if they were still sane they would want to help.

But what do you do after? use them for menial tasks? herd them into reservations like the humans did to the orcs? slaughter them? I think you are right that Thalyssra will continue research on them, blizzard might even turn them into another sub-race down the line, there shouldn't be any more withered possible after these events, ofc - unlesss the Arcan'dor fruit failed to reach a group of nightborne who go off to lives somehwere or some other story , so it's probably going to be finding a way to help those that survive, that fits her character personality much better.

[Mehrunes]

The Elisande bit is a bit perplexing, but her "redemption" was only in the beta, not live content, we have yet to see how all of 7.1 would play out and ofc, what stages or phases 7.2 and her actual live encounter would bring. If they do change it, I hope instead Thalyssra and not Khadgar is the one that's wielding the nightwell power on our behalf, if it does remain Elisande, then I hope they give a little more detail.

Well, that content is still there, just postponed for now. No changes to Nighthold have been datamined so far and it sort of belongs to the same tier as Emerald Dream according to Blizzard. Then again there's always a possibility there will change stuff around once they get to releasing that raid.

Also bear in mind, that though we hit exalted with nightfallen now and have to wait to see the change, most people will not hit so before 7.1 hits, which means that Thalyssra and co will instantly transform on their screens if they hit exalted during 7.1 , this can be interpreted as just technical limitations or, you could read that the fruit of the arcan'dor is more potent to heal than the nightwell's elixir - which could make sense, since it brings you back into balance. Afterall 7.1 in the timeline is actually only a few weeks into Suramar's surrender - even though it's a few months of our time. Whiles we were beaten on the broken shore, Suramar has just surrendered to the legion probably hours or a few days before our arrival or possibly at the same time.. it's hard to tell, I do know that Thalyssra has just survived her stabbing and a few days withering to the nightfallen state when we find her message - in the meantime we've just been scouring the broken isles for the pillars of creation - basically the events actually happen quite quickly

If Blizzard makes it so that they change in front of you if you hit Exalted in 7.1 then it would be even more incompetent of them. Even if they got the idea later, changing models isn't hard and could have been hotfixed ahead of the rest of 7.1 for the people that hit Exalted before 7.1 is released.

[ravenmoon]

And don't be so hasty to have Illidan in Suramar, though, he is likely to wreak it to "save" it. If the nightwell survives he would probably be pouring and trying to utilize all it's power to launch the attack on the legion, at least any felsworn nightborne might turn to our side, but he might mean more fel in the city, and i'd hate that.

nah, Illidan in Suramar should be fine, even awesome, remember he is coming back changed, at the end of Illidan, the Naaru, i presume it was Xe'ra? tells him that he has one final lesson to learn, this i take to be his death at our hands and his journey in the nether that we are going to see him return from. He should be a more balanced person when he returns (or is that wishful thinking?). Besides he has got Felsoul hold to do all the ugly/nasty demonic stuff that's necessary, without turning Suramar ugly, he shouldn't need to do any of that stuff.

and remember his goal is to save his people and disocevering Suramar intact is exaclty the sort ofhope he sought to give them when he remade the Well of Eternity, I think he will take a shine to the nightborne and broken isles nigiht elves, i mean these night elves never imprisoned him , and even though the wardens have mjoved back in here, well,t hey're working with his illidari now, He lived in the city, it's his home city, he is not a part of Darnassus or anything the Vigil group did, so in Suramar, the nightborne/night elves of the broken isles, he would have even greater incentive to save.. and ofc despite everything, am I the only one that feels that Illidan still has feeelings for Tyrande, even though he said he didn't - that may have been the anger speaking, but the actions are showing otherwise.

[Deleted]

I don't think that's what he is saying, but he should be. He is effectively saying he wants the forest night elves (which he calls ALL night elves) to continue being druidic based, but the nightborne night elves (which he thinks is new elf group unrelated to the night elves) of the broken shore to be what they are now, which is city based night elves. I actually agree with him on that, just not on his insistence that nightborne shouldn't be considered night elven based/linked or related. Like Ravenmoon, I see nightborne as even more authentically night elven than the alliance group - okay, maybe not that, but the long absent side of night elven that is very much as night elven as the druidic lifestyle the northern group adopted and the northern group never leg go of. That is very much as night elven as the arcane culture we see in the nightborne - which is night elf empire culture. This is what the night elves were originally introduced as, when we got to learn of their most powerful highborne class etc, this is what they were originally first in the lore, and it's nice to have that bit in the night group, not just the blood elves.

It's very nice that high class elven lifestyle is not exclusive to the blood elves. It's nice we are finally seeing the night elf version, which comes first in the lore, finally in the game. If you ever read the WC3 manual and WotA, can you say you honestly have not been waiting to see the arcane version of the night elves in it's fullness? Long before we saw the blood elves in TBC or TFT for that matter.

I wouldn'T consider the Nightborn more pure. What is for you the true, pure part of Night Elvish Community? The magic? Then it would be the Shal'dorei, sure. The Religious believe in Elune as one, true Goddess? Then it would be the Kal'dorei. A more humanlike, magical monarchy? Quel'dorei. I want to be honest, I was never really eager to see the arcane Night Elves, for me, the High Elves were always the continuation of the Highborn-Culture, while the Kal'dorei learned their lesson from the War of the Ancients and began a new Culture with druidism and a stronger focus on "Elunism" (or whatever we want to call this religion). I always considered the Kal'dorei-Society the better one. They have overcome aristocracy and while they live in an theocracy (and I would consider both parts of the Night Elven Society, the elune-focused one and the Cenarion Circle one theocratic. After all, druidism is also a religion), their society is one of the more equalatarian ones. I don't say that I don't like the Nightborn and if I'm honest, I would prefer to have Nightborn as Night Elven Mages than the Highborne, who were just as bad and corrupted as the Blood Elves during Burning Crusade (after all, they fed their magical addiction with a demon), but for me, the True Night Elves will remain the Kal'dorei of the Alliance.

[Aucald]

I don't think it works on Withered. But who knows, Thalysra may continue her research. Speaking of Runas though, is he even around after the quest when he becomes a Withered? And I don't really get why he became a Withered in the first place. We fed him shortly prior to that. And he was chilling in magic pond of the dragons. Given how it's lack of food that triggers the process it didn't make much sense in that context. Even less than in Lyndras' case.

Back to Withered, what if nothing works in the end, though? As Friendly said, they behave like they suffered a heavy lobotomy. Yet Nightfallen organize them into an army (of abject retards, damn that scenario). That kind of smells of abuse. Even if they don't make them fight anymore, would they keep them as servants? As pets? Would they herd them into reservations like US did to Native Americans?

I think Runas was on the knife's edge of becoming Withered when we found him, and both the Azure Dragonflight's pools and random bits of mana crystals weren't enough to pull him back from the brink, so to speak. When he transforms he just wanders off and then phases out, he doesn't appear to die so the door is open to encounter him again at some future point I suppose. I think one's emotional tenor is a factor when it comes to a specific Nightborne and Withering - Thalyssra and co. have a goal and something to fight for that keeps them from falling swiftly into madness, and Runas didn't seem to have anything but a desire for vengeance and despair. When you find him in Aszuna it's just too late for him to hold onto himself as Nightfallen.

I also found Thalyssra's "use" of the Withered to be kind of questionable, in a lot of ways. But I figure since she is mentally linked to Theryn perhaps she knows that the Withered truly do want to help and are serving more-or-less willingly - of course that also depends on whether or not you believe her, being unable to commune with Theryn yourself.

[Mace]

I wouldn'T consider the Nightborn more pure. What is for you the true, pure part of Night Elvish Community? The magic? Then it would be the Shal'dorei, sure. The Religious believe in Elune as one, true Goddess? Then it would be the Kal'dorei. A more humanlike, magical monarchy? Quel'dorei. I want to be honest, I was never really eager to see the arcane Night Elves, for me, the High Elves were always the continuation of the Highborn-Culture, while the Kal'dorei learned their lesson from the War of the Ancients and began a new Culture with druidism and a stronger focus on "Elunism" (or whatever we want to call this religion). I always considered the Kal'dorei-Society the better one. They have overcome aristocracy and while they live in an theocracy (and I would consider both parts of the Night Elven Society, the elune-focused one and the Cenarion Circle one theocratic. After all, druidism is also a religion), their society is one of the more equalatarian ones. I don't say that I don't like the Nightborn and if I'm honest, I would prefer to have Nightborn as Night Elven Mages than the Highborne, who were just as bad and corrupted as the Blood Elves during Burning Crusade (after all, they fed their magical addiction with a demon), but for me, the True Night Elves will remain the Kal'dorei of the Alliance.

I think night elf society would largely continue to be as you have siad, I just see the return of the arcane aspect as a continuation of their line, independent of what happens to the blood elves. I like it also, because they aren't really thinking of the blood elves here, nor are they thinking "oh, we'll have only one group of elves be the arcane elves, and another be the nature elves and keep things balanced" - they've abandoned that thankfully and what they are doing is expanding every group in their own way. We saw high elves transition to blood elves, then the fel thing, the light thing, the undead thing with the darkfallen, the group has come a long way from the idyllic high elf mages they once were, now some people want them to be high elves agian, but most people love their current development that continues growing them.

A similar thing is now been done with the night elves, rather than staying in the nature mould they've been in wow for 14 years, they are now developing the group on its own merit. The nightborne, suramar, the highborne, those are all out of the night elf's history, and while the blood elves came from the highborne, the story of these shen'drelar highborne and the nightborne are completely independent of the development of the highborne, they are instead tied to the ancient night elves, making it a development of that group, expanding it beyond the only nature focus by introducing several new groups - nightborne, highborne, demon hunters on the magical side, and expanding on the wardens on the priestly side.

This is actually really good, you want this diversity, as it's bound to get people more involved. Those who loved the druidic nature of the night elves still have that in Cenarion circle group which night elf are not exclusive but they dominate they are still in the vigil culture, and much of the Darnassian group though in the post-vigil culture still are dominated by that, this allows others now who aren't interested or have much love for nature stufted in the night elves and they'd instead love the nightborne and the arcane side, gives a new dimension to the night elves, you get the dark elf wizard fantasy also as well as the druidic one, and it's different themes and authentic story makes it different from the blood elves, even though it has similarities. Remember the arcane side of the night elves was there from the very beginning, so it's not like this is something brand new to their story or culture.

I see it as a further fleshing out of the night elves, as you develop and you expand, you have to bring in new things , (or in their case, old things), bu this is what for me makes wow so exciting, the races and cultures here move on, you see new elements and new sides of some group every expansion, we now have 3 tauren groups Taunka, Yaungol and Highmountain, look at how many troll groups we have, every player race is being expanded and fleshed out, gives you something new all the time, this is why I keep coming to warcraft over even SWtor, GW2, Black Desert and even FFXIV - the story moves on, and they develop each race group in their own way.

It would be dull if the night elves just went back to druid only - with the nightborne, DHs, Highborne, even the wardens just cut off from being night elf lore because they were arcane or non-druidic just because "night elves should be forest only" becasue we saw them like that in wow for so long. Every group progresses, and many of us are very glad at last night elves are getting some progression too, it's been a while.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't say that I don't like the Nightborn and if I'm honest, I would prefer to have Nightborn as Night Elven Mages than the Highborne, who were just as bad and corrupted as the Blood Elves during Burning Crusade (after all, they fed their magical addiction with a demon), but for me, the True Night Elves will remain the Kal'dorei of the Alliance.

I want to highlight this bit a little further,

It's funny, becasue I like it as it is now, and from following the devs at Gamescom/Blizzcon, private/public interviews and Q&As, I get the impression that they were going to be night elves at first, but they felt it would have be better to give them a more distinct high class night elven look, different to the existing night elves, hence they came up with the nightborne appearance, and the magical armor - to match the vision of the grandness of Suramar, I'm glad they did too. Ravenmoon if I recall felt as you did too, preferred them to be the current night elven models, but I think he fell in love with the nightborne appearance along the way, especially after I explained how good diversity is. They should have done this with the highborne of Shen'dralar so we could have a night elf sub-race sooner (it worked out well cos I much prefer the nightwell rather than Immol'thar being the source of the change), so I'm glad they did this now, I think it's great when they diversify races, and they are doing it in just the right amount, not overly, but bit by bit. I think we now have all player races with at least 2 sub-race groups feasible to them - you could make each playable race it's own faction of 3

I have a suspicion that nightborne may be intended to return to the night elven state, I'm really hoping that doesn't happen, so that they can make sub-races and this can be one. I feel all races should have alternative appearances via there sub-races, even alternative cultures if possible, to give players a different option within the race to play with. Variety is the spice of life.

[Rhlor]

So you want the Night Elves be Blood Elves in purple, without everything that defined them in the first place.

in the ancient empire kaldorei were people like Malfurion who liked nature

[ravenmoon]

I think night elf society would largely continue to be as you have siad, I just see the return of the arcane aspect as a continuation of their line, independent of what happens to the blood elves. I like it also, because they aren't really thinking of the blood elves here, nor are they thinking "oh, we'll have only one group of elves be the arcane elves, and another be the nature elves and keep things balanced" - they've abandoned that thankfully and what they are doing is expanding every group in their own way. We saw high elves transition to blood elves, then the fel thing, the light thing, the undead thing with the darkfallen, the group has come a long way from the idyllic high elf mages they once were, now some people want them to be high elves agian, but most people love their current development that continues growing them.

A similar thing is now been done with the night elves, rather than staying in the nature mould they've been in wow for 14 years, they are now developing the group on its own merit. The nightborne, suramar, the highborne, those are all out of the night elf's history, and while the blood elves came from the highborne, the story of these shen'drelar highborne and the nightborne are completely independent of the development of the highborne, they are instead tied to the ancient night elves, making it a development of that group, expanding it beyond the only nature focus by introducing several new groups - nightborne, highborne, demon hunters on the magical side, and expanding on the wardens on the priestly side.

This is actually really good, you want this diversity, as it's bound to get people more involved. Those who loved the druidic nature of the night elves still have that in Cenarion circle group which night elf are not exclusive but they dominate they are still in the vigil culture, and much of the Darnassian group though in the post-vigil culture still are dominated by that, this allows others now who aren't interested or have much love for nature stufted in the night elves and they'd instead love the nightborne and the arcane side, gives a new dimension to the night elves, you get the dark elf wizard fantasy also as well as the druidic one, and it's different themes and authentic story makes it different from the blood elves, even though it has similarities. Remember the arcane side of the night elves was there from the very beginning, so it's not like this is something brand new to their story or culture.

I see it as a further fleshing out of the night elves, as you develop and you expand, you have to bring in new things , (or in their case, old things), bu this is what for me makes wow so exciting, the races and cultures here move on, you see new elements and new sides of some group every expansion, we now have 3 tauren groups Taunka, Yaungol and Highmountain, look at how many troll groups we have, every player race is being expanded and fleshed out, gives you something new all the time, this is why I keep coming to warcraft over even SWtor, GW2, Black Desert and even FFXIV - the story moves on, and they develop each race group in their own way.

It would be dull if the night elves just went back to druid only - with the nightborne, DHs, Highborne, even the wardens just cut off from being night elf lore because they were arcane or non-druidic just because "night elves should be forest only" becasue we saw them like that in wow for so long. Every group progresses, and many of us are very glad at last night elves are getting some progression too, it's been a while.

basically, because the arcane night elves are now the nightborne, all night elf arcane developments will now be championed through this group, leaving the ordinary night elves to continue being largely nature orientated? Part of me still wishes they'd have used the night elves only, except i quite like the nightborne so i don't mind

[Mace]

basically, because the arcane night elves are now the nightborne, all night elf arcane developments will now be championed through this group, leaving the ordinary night elves to continue being largely nature orientated? Part of me still wishes they'd have used the night elves only, except i quite like the nightborne so i don't mind

except it's not an either/or, it's an either/and - they did use the night elves, they're just in the form of the nightborne - clearly continuing the arcane side of the night elf story in a separate group - but night elf based because they've kept everything else the same (isn't that what you've been saying?). If they didn't want them night elf based, they won't be night based, they didn't have touse Suramar, they could have done something unrleated to night elf, they could have used a group of high elf exiled that stopped on the broken shore on their way to Quel'thalas and found Suramar, repaired it etc.

and they obviously do not intend nightborne to be void of the ordinary night elf either, they already have the Moonguard under Thalyssra's wings, the Val'sharah druids, and off course Valewalker Farodin is hand in hand with Thalysrra helping and guiding the recovery efforts just as assiduously as she is, just as determined to save. This is why I really feel, Suramar will be a place lived in by Nightborne and night elf alike - but will be a neutral place, and I suspect Illidan will play a part, as blood elves, high elves will also be welcome there, but after reading about 7.1 I now suspect they don't want to stay, they found their own path, and are just helping out, which I think could potentially make them welcome i.e. neutral hub.

The thrust of arcane night elf would be dominated and led by the nightborne whenever they want to develop the arcane or night elves in a neutral capcity, they'll use this group. Whenever they want to show night elves in a faction capacity, they'll use the Daranssus group, and off course for nature they'll continue to use the Cenarion circle group.

[ravenmoon]

except it's not an either/or, it's an either/and - they did use the night elves, they're just in the form of the nightborne - clearly continuing the arcane side of the night elf story in a separate group - but night elf based because they've kept everything else the same (isn't that what you've been saying?). If they didn't want them night elf based, they won't be night based, they didn't have touse Suramar, they could have done something unrleated to night elf, they could have used a group of high elf exiled that stopped on the broken shore on their way to Quel'thalas and found Suramar, repaired it etc.

and they obviously do not intend nightborne to be void of the ordinary night elf either, they already have the Moonguard under Thalyssra's wings, the Val'sharah druids, and off course Valewalker Farodin is hand in hand with Thalysrra helping and guiding the recovery efforts just as assiduously as she is, just as determined to save. This is why I really feel, Suramar will be a place lived in by Nightborne and night elf alike - but will be a neutral place, and I suspect Illidan will play a part, as blood elves, high elves will also be welcome there, but after reading about 7.1 I now suspect they don't want to stay, they found their own path, and are just helping out, which I think could potentially make them welcome i.e. neutral hub.

The thrust of arcane night elf would be dominated and led by the nightborne whenever they want to develop the arcane or night elves in a neutral capcity, they'll use this group. Whenever they want to show night elves in a faction capacity, they'll use the Darnassus group, and off course for nature they'll continue to use the Cenarion circle group.

it's not me that's saying, it's what we are shown, besides, wasn't it you that wrote the alpha/beta article (possibly the wowpedia ones too?) I've been going off of that info, but it's only based on what we are seeing in game and on the panels. And I wouldn't conclude that because the blood elves are helping the nightborne that Suramar will be a neutral hub and the nightborne friendly - the blood elves may feel sorry for the nightborne or understand what they're going through, but they've offered no comfort or assistance to help them in it unlike the night elves who found a solution, furthermore, the blood elves are there to stop the legion from destroying their world, and being an elven city and the best of the two elven groups in the Alliance/Horde at magic currently, they are more qualified than any horde group to be there. I wouldn't read too much into it yet. Afterall, did we not all help Vol'jin and the trolls with both Zul'gurub and Zul'aman? didn't see the trolls opening up for the alliance. Did not the Draenei help the blood elves? Don't see Silvermoon open up to the Draenei, basically, I suspect just like in TBC, we all helped the blood elves in the sunwell plateau, same here we are going to help the night elven ancient city and it's citizens with the legion - after that occurrence, well, it's anybone's guess

[Deleted]

I think night elf society would largely continue to be as you have siad, I just see the return of the arcane aspect as a continuation of their line, independent of what happens to the blood elves. I like it also, because they aren't really thinking of the blood elves here, nor are they thinking "oh, we'll have only one group of elves be the arcane elves, and another be the nature elves and keep things balanced" - they've abandoned that thankfully and what they are doing is expanding every group in their own way. We saw high elves transition to blood elves, then the fel thing, the light thing, the undead thing with the darkfallen, the group has come a long way from the idyllic high elf mages they once were, now some people want them to be high elves agian, but most people love their current development that continues growing them.

In the Case of Blood Elves, Blizz kinda fucked it. Their way of Fel-Magic and magical Addiction, their Paladins who enslave the Light instead of serving it, this were the things that made the Blood Elves new, unique and interesting. Especially since the Elves in BC were the opposite of how we know elves in Fantasy. Normally we have the light-skinned Elves who are all for nature and good and nice and we have the dark-skinned elves, who are sinister and evil. During BC, it was the way that we good the light-skinned elves who are on a kinda sinister part for the sake of survival and with Blood Knights who turned the way they are through massive trauma and despair and the dark-skinned elves, who are all for nature, but often fairly hyprocritical, non-forgiving and cruel themselves, who sabotage the Blood Elves instead of trying helping them (despite being more or less allies at that time) and who entrust their Law in the hands of a bunch of fanatics. Right now, their is nothing that makes the Blood Elves unique while Blizzard fucked the process of reaccepting magic into their society for the Night Elves, by simply randomly implementing Night Elf Mages and the Highborn for the Sake of cool, while after Legion it would have been the perfect opportunity to implement the Nightborn Sub-Race and therefore make them playable on Night Elf-Side. It would have been a by far satisfying story arc. After all, the Highborn of Diremaul are those who fucked their magical addiction as worse as the Blood Elves did.

A similar thing is now been done with the night elves, rather than staying in the nature mould they've been in wow for 14 years, they are now developing the group on its own merit. The nightborne, suramar, the highborne, those are all out of the night elf's history, and while the blood elves came from the highborne, the story of these shen'drelar highborne and the nightborne are completely independent of the development of the highborne, they are instead tied to the ancient night elves, making it a development of that group, expanding it beyond the only nature focus by introducing several new groups - nightborne, highborne, demon hunters on the magical side, and expanding on the wardens on the priestly side.

I like that they are expanding the Wardens and I would love if Blizz gave us some Transmogs so we can play Wardens ourselves and make them an Darnassus-Affiliated part of Night Elf Society again, but on the other side I kinda dislike that they turned the Priestesses of the Moon into random Priests and act like the fact that Priestesses of the Moon wear plate armors and fight in battle is something new.

This is actually really good, you want this diversity, as it's bound to get people more involved. Those who loved the druidic nature of the night elves still have that in Cenarion circle group which night elf are not exclusive but they dominate they are still in the vigil culture, and much of the Darnassian group though in the post-vigil culture still are dominated by that, this allows others now who aren't interested or have much love for nature stufted in the night elves and they'd instead love the nightborne and the arcane side, gives a new dimension to the night elves, you get the dark elf wizard fantasy also as well as the druidic one, and it's different themes and authentic story makes it different from the blood elves, even though it has similarities. Remember the arcane side of the night elves was there from the very beginning, so it's not like this is something brand new to their story or culture.

I think some Part Nightborne Story for the Night Elves and they taking over the arcane side from the Highborne could be nice, but I would also love to see more of the Elune Side again in the future, especially classical Priestesses of the Moon like we loved them in WC3.

It would be dull if the night elves just went back to druid only - with the nightborne, DHs, Highborne, even the wardens just cut off from being night elf lore because they were arcane or non-druidic just because "night elves should be forest only" becasue we saw them like that in wow for so long. Every group progresses, and many of us are very glad at last night elves are getting some progression too, it's been a while.

I think I expressed it badly. What I wanted to say is, I would like to see more of the classical, WC3 Side of Night Elf Culture again and let it stay the mainpart of their culture. In Fact, I'm not even that much into Druids. I will play one in RP, but only after they made the Druids of the Moon a thing. The Elune Part and Especially the Wardens were always my favorite Part of the Night Elf Society and I really hope, after I finished Illidan and got the conformation that the Corebooks discription is still true and the Wardens gain their powers through faith in elune, that the Night Elf Paladins, when they come, are going to be presented as Wardens or at least Priestesses of the Moon to us. Night Elf Paladins as Wardens would be a nice way to give Paladins a couple of new mechanics, like some blink (they really could need in PvP to make them more mobile) or giving us back the old Retri Gurdian of Ancient Kings (maybe as some Avatar of Retribution with a Glyph to turn it into the Avatar of Vengeance, a Shadow Version of it).

And the first T-Set after Night Elf Paladins would be a wearable Warden Armor (or better, they give every Paladin-Interpretation some mogging Armor via Class Hall. A new black-red Armor-Set for Blood Knights, some nice crystal Armor for Vindicators, some tribal-looking Armor für Sunwalkers, Uthers Armor for Paladins and the Wardens Armor for Night Elves :P).


[quote] I want to highlight this bit a little further,

It's funny, becasue I like it as it is now, and from following the devs at Gamescom/Blizzcon, private/public interviews and Q&As, I get the impression that they were going to be night elves at first, but they felt it would have be better to give them a more distinct high class night elven look, different to the existing night elves, hence they came up with the nightborne appearance, and the magical armor - to match the vision of the grandness of Suramar, I'm glad they did too. Ravenmoon if I recall felt as you did too, preferred them to be the current night elven models, but I think he fell in love with the nightborne appearance along the way, especially after I explained how good diversity is. They should have done this with the highborne of Shen'dralar so we could have a night elf sub-race sooner (it worked out well cos I much prefer the nightwell rather than Immol'thar being the source of the change), so I'm glad they did this now, I think it's great when they diversify races, and they are doing it in just the right amount, not overly, but bit by bit. I think we now have all player races with at least 2 sub-race groups feasible to them - you could make each playable race it's own faction of 3

I think after Class-Fantasy in LEgion, the next Addon should be more about Race-Fantasy (sounds kinda Racist...I love it!). The Part of Classic I loved most was, that we really got a feeling for our race while leveling, while still getting some connection to the other races of our Faction. With Race-Fantasy, we should finally get our Subraces. For most of the Races, their is at least one good sub-race.

I have a suspicion that nightborne may be intended to return to the night elven state, I'm really hoping that doesn't happen, so that they can make sub-races and this can be one. I feel all races should have alternative appearances via there sub-races, even alternative cultures if possible, to give players a different option within the race to play with. Variety is the spice of life.

To be honest, I also like the Nightborn Model more. I prefer to play female characters and the female Night Elves...yeah. Their women are supposed to be a bunch of warriors even a Grom Hellscream can deeply respect. The Model of Night Elf Females on the other hand...the are hopping...
I wish Blizz would have used the new Character Models to make the Night elf Females finally more muscular and warrior-like. Right now, the Nightborn Females look by far more like women I can take serious. I like Thalyssras Nightborne Model. Still more skimpy clothed, but she looks by far more warriorlike than Tyrande, who is supposed to be a warrior-priest.

[Karon]

Telling him the reason I won't watch his streams is constructive. I doubt I'm the only person on the planet who doesn't enjoy supporting people who are jerks

With comments like the first one it's you who's the jerk here, not him.

[Life-Binder]

can someone confirm

(1) what are the requirements to start doing the 7.1 Suramar questline ? Do you have to have finished the entire 7.0 line to the very end (so getting 11/11, exalted and killing Xavius) ?

(2) What are the rewards for the story questline in Suramar 7.1 ? Any good gear or jsut AP ?

[Mace]

In the Case of Blood Elves, Blizz kinda fucked it. Their way of Fel-Magic and magical Addiction, their Paladins who enslave the Light instead of serving it, this were the things that made the Blood Elves new, unique and interesting. Especially since the Elves in BC were the opposite of how we know elves in Fantasy. Normally we have the light-skinned Elves who are all for nature and good and nice and we have the dark-skinned elves, who are sinister and evil. During BC, it was the way that we good the light-skinned elves who are on a kinda sinister part for the sake of survival and with Blood Knights who turned the way they are through massive trauma and despair and the dark-skinned elves, who are all for nature, but often fairly hyprocritical, non-forgiving and cruel themselves, who sabotage the Blood Elves instead of trying helping them (despite being more or less allies at that time) and who entrust their Law in the hands of a bunch of fanatics. Right now, their is nothing that makes the Blood Elves unique while Blizzard fucked the process of reaccepting magic into their society for the Night Elves, by simply randomly implementing Night Elf Mages and the Highborn for the Sake of cool, while after Legion it would have been the perfect opportunity to implement the Nightborn Sub-Race and therefore make them playable on Night Elf-Side. It would have been a by far satisfying story arc. After all, the Highborn of Diremaul are those who fucked their magical addiction as worse as the Blood Elves did.

I think it becomes okay to do this because you have two opposite sides, the basically white elves , light skinned, sun, light themes on one end and the dark or black elves, dark skinned, moon/stars, night themes - (don't take this as disagreeing with all of what your saying, just adding to the conversation with this insight) it's like the forsaken, you basically have a lot of the human stuff but in an undead fashion - they have their own identity ofc, but they are also strong mages, warriors, rogues etc - the light theme is definitely not that strong here, kind like the nature theme not that strong in the blood elves - but otherwise you have a counter on the dark skinned elves side.
what I like is that night elves aren't just shown as tree orientated any more, that the other aspects they were introduced as being a part of them, like the arcane, demon hunters, moon priestess are making a very meaningful comeback. They are no longer just peripheral, they have major part of the groups story. It's fixing a monotonous and boring part of the night elves. Face it they've been very dull in wow as just tree huggers and they were never just that in the lore.

I think I expressed it badly. What I wanted to say is, I would like to see more of the classical, WC3 Side of Night Elf Culture again and let it stay the mainpart of their culture. In Fact, I'm not even that much into Druids. I will play one in RP, but only after they made the Druids of the Moon a thing. The Elune Part and Especially the Wardens were always my favorite Part of the Night Elf Society and I really hope,

yes, I think that is why they made the nightborne a different sort of alternative night elf race, so they could keep the night elves or at least the northern kalimdor night elves still having the WC3 things as its main focus, but also free now to expand the night elf arcane side with it's own assets and variation without it necessarily gobbling up the WC3 bit. Hence why I suspect we're going to get two night elf kingdoms, northern kalimdor bunch - remaining largely as it is, and the broken isle bunch that will have the arcane nightborne and val'sharah priests/druids incorporating the new model/direction of the night elves. They can be allied too, so blizzard can provide the alliance night elves with arcane expertise at will without necessarily needing to change the northern kalimdor group.
There is a second consideration too. The WC3 style night elves although that vigil culture is technically gone because of the changes (that group is now in the post-vigil era), still have their elements around, just arranged differently. So even if the highborne/nightborne arcane civilziation becomes entrenched in night elf culture again, you still have all the druid assets carrying on with the night elves of the Cenarion circle, and you will get the Val'sharah druids still being a largely forest/rural area. The priest assets will continue too, I can imagine that the nightborne and suramar would have the priest restored to them, ala WotA/Chronicles style, going back to the an era before Azshara went all evil, where the priesthood and the arcane were so intertwined.

This would an amazing development, becuase you will see new developments to the priesthood, and this will bring them out a lot more, while theWardens and the Sentinels would continue the martial aspect of the priesthood - in the broken isles or Kalimdor, you will see a more regal high class side of them, never shown before, but part of their lore - which I think would be awesome to see, and the priesthood would be joining in battles with spells alongside the mages, not just their martial side.

I think after Class-Fantasy in LEgion, the next Addon should be more about Race-Fantasy (sounds kinda Racist...I love it!). The Part of Classic I loved most was, that we really got a feeling for our race while leveling, while still getting some connection to the other races of our Faction. With Race-Fantasy, we should finally get our Subraces. For most of the Races, their is at least one good sub-race.

I agree with you 100%, making several key posts about this, how sub-races should be introduced and it would be cool if they gave them a class theme, check this topic out
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...rc-Blademaster
and how they should do for races what they have done for classes, i.e. we need the racial perspective.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...uld-be-awesome
I've seen the idea come up lots since then too, I hope they do it.

oh, and @M-Ra thanks for sharing your thoughts, I enjoyed reading. While i love the arcane night elven thing going on now, and definitely want more of it with whatever group, I hope it doesn't stop there either. There is so much more to the priesthood than the Wardens, but I think this is just the start, the nightborne, priesthood, DHs, and other aspects of night elf society still have more to come, there are so many things they can draw from both for new things, and to expand on prevoiusly seen stuff. So let's hope the new keeps coming, but also some of the older stuff gets a proper enhancement too

[Bumbac]

I suppose the chapters are going to unlock weekly, so 8 weeks to progress full storyline.