Will raiders end up quitting the game or buying gold in the next few weeks?

[Genju]

Legion pots are about 3 million damage, per player. Conservatively, 1.5 million.

i know. Still doesnt matter.

Example: Nythendra mythic progress. Why does it matter if everyone uses a pot, and you wipe at 40% after 4 min because every dance phase 2 people die, or you dont use pots and you still wipe after 4 min at the exact same situation, but the boss is on 45%.

It would only matter if you wiped at <10%.

We use pots on everyone when we feel that the tactic works and everybody is/should be able to play it correctly. no need to do it earlier.

(Flask uses everybody, because they are in no way as expensiv as using pots on every try. And they help with the overall encounter (e.g. dmg on adds) and not just early burst on the boss.)

If you're killing him 1000th you're in the top 20-25k players in WoW, a game with millions of subscribers. The lack of perspective from top end raiders continues to astonish me. It's the typical "everyone below me must be bad" attitude that makes so many mmo players totally insufferable.

Im not saying they are bad, im saying they dont need that additional dps boost, because they are probably overgeared thanks to the generell item level inflation, hell im technically overgeared when i reach mythic Xavius in i dont know 5 weeks. ill bet in 99% the raids, using pots on every pull compared to using pots only after u learned the fight would make no difference in time spent on a boss.
And my main point was, they can and should use pots, just not on every pull when you know that you will probably wipe before coming close to a kill.

[shonist]

I'm not a mathematician but I think that is three words

ahaha lmao

[Kantoro]

Stop
Buying
Flasks.

/thread

[BiggestNoob]

Stop
Buying
Flasks.

/thread

Where can I buy the extra time I need to go pick up plants?

Is that Honor Buddy? Legion has made Honor Buddy so much money this expansion, and Blizzard doesn't care because the extra box sales and subs pushes their numbers up and makes them look better, and the economy is so fucked it doesn't actually hurt anything (oh poor you, farming 30-40k gold an hour on herbs, these poor bots reducing that to 28-38k).

[Aeula]

Doubtful that the hardcore crowd will quit, they'll just resort to botting. Casual raiders on the other hand will most likely be quitting.

[kaelleria]

Legion pots are about 3 million damage, per player. Conservatively, 1.5 million.

Even getting rot twice in my crap gear, Potion of the old war did 6.23m damage in my Nythendra kill last night. Not potioning is equivalent of losing 84m damage or about 2/3 of a person. Obviously mechanics are important, but potions can make up a % or two depending on the fight.

[JoshuaNLG]

i was exaggerating. but people with the mindset of "oh, just don't use your pots on every pull." annoy me because they don't seem to understand that pretty much every pull is a potential kill. you don't have to be a casual to understand that.

By not mandatory, i meant at the moment given the retarded prices going around, potions and flasks will definitely be mandatory once the prices have settled down or when the blood traders in-game.

[Deleted]

Yeah... i'm getting pretty burned out of herbing. I will keep doing it, but i hope Blizz does something about it. If rank 3 flaks would be easier to get, it would aleviate problems.

[justinhalfout]

My guild is already suffering from fallout due to high prices, specially those who didn't play much in WoD and came back to raid in Legion, we have some who are good reliable players who sadly, due to real life commitments, simply do not have the time to go out picking flowers.

Others try to help them as much as possible and so does the guild bank, but we can't go on offering freebies forever.

This could have been hotfixed a long time ago (they could have lowered the mats needed for prepots to one of each and maybe toned down the mats needed for flasks) but i'm sure Blizzard are quietly rubbing their fucking hands as people who do not have much spare time cave in and buy their tokens so they have gold to pay for consumables.

[Xykotic]

I don't know about most peoples realms, but flasks are getting cheaper and cheaper on my realm. Its probably about 50g cheaper every day.

Flasks that were 3k were 2k a week ago. Now they're 1800 a pop.

Still a steep price, but its also really easy to farm them tbh, I've had zero issues gathering all the flasks I need for a week of raiding as herbs seem to spawn in such abundance I can hardly even go 50 yards without getting a new blip on my map.

Potions is ofcourse a different story still, I do believe that maybe they should be slightly reduced in crafting cost. Our guild does not expect one to use potions, except maybe if we're really struggling with a boss. I guess once you go mythic its another story, which is why I'm hoping for a reduced cost there eventually, or that 7.1 comes around so we can start flooding the market with mats from BoS

[Faenskap]

I don't bot herbalism, I feel that according to this thread, I'm doing it all wrong

[Deleted]

I'm on a casual raiding guild and for the life can't understand if the "raiders" here are hardcore puggers or what? I do agree that herbalism/alchemy situation is whacky at the moment however I just can't see a shred of any organized raiding from the complainers.

Even my guild as casuals have no issues keeping up. We have like 2-3 herbalists, rest running the shoulder enchant and pooling the resources in gbank. We have enough not only to sustain but also to sell excess. I just can't put it in my mind that "hardcore raiding" guilds are just a bunch of people logging at raid time and can't even get that level of organized play.

[Deleted]

I don't bot herbalism, I feel that according to this thread, I'm doing it all wrong

Nah you're good. People botting will be banned.

[BiggestNoob]

I'm on a casual raiding guild and for the life can't understand if the "raiders" here are hardcore puggers or what? I do agree that herbalism/alchemy situation is whacky at the moment however I just can't see a shred of any organized raiding from the complainers.

Even my guild as casuals have no issues keeping up. We have like 2-3 herbalists, rest running the shoulder enchant and pooling the resources in gbank. We have enough not only to sustain but also to sell excess. I just can't put it in my mind that "hardcore raiding" guilds are just a bunch of people logging at raid time and can't even get that level of organized play.

Your guild isn't using consumes or isn't raiding.

[SoundOfGuns]

...just don't use so many flasks and pots? Whats the problem? And you are aware you can farm herbs super easily right now, right? Im not exactly sure i get that whining... and that's kind of what this feels like for me.

I mean no harm here, im just not sure i get the issue. Yes, if you buy your stuff from the AH its expensive. Its an option but its optimal if you farm. Thats what you do if you don't want to buy herbs and flasks. You will have to invest the time unfortunately. But considering i can farm up to 500 Dreamleaf or what it is in english an hour im not sure this is a big deal... And it sort of has always been this way. Yes, the prices are a bit insane right now, but thats an easy fix...

Honestly, in all the raids i took part in, that i have been leading and the one i founded we all would farm for the flasks, put them in a pool, had two or three alchemists mix it into what we needed and gave that out during the raid. Usually through combined activities you got Gold to buy something if you really got a shortage...

Im a bit baffled by what big of an issue this seems to be to many here. What are the costs on your servers?

[Echocho]

...just don't use so much on flasks and pots? Whats the problem? And you are aware you can farm herbs super easily right now, right? Im not exactly sure i get that whining... and that's kind of what this is.

Yeah don't buy more than you can afford, simple as that.

[BiggestNoob]

...just don't use so many flasks and pots? Whats the problem? And you are aware you can farm herbs super easily right now, right? Im not exactly sure i get that whining... and that's kind of what this feels like for me.

That's not how this works, and the amount of time it takes is the problem because the recipes for flasks require 27 herbs and pots require 10. WoD flasks required 8 plants and potions required 3, and flasks required 2 types of herbs while pots required 1, where in Legion it's 3 for both. You also get 1 Starlight per flower.

Dreamleaf isn't the problem. Let's look at some guild called "Most Casual NA". They raid 2 days a week, 3 hours a day. They need 6 flasks per week and let's say 30 pulls a night with only 3 pulls requiring a second pot. That's 66 potions per week. With rank 3, they're looking at needing 216 of each flower and 116 Starlight rose. That's per person. Dreamleaf is easy to farm, and getting 216 Fjarn can take 1 hour to 90 minutes. So let's call that 2 hours for the two flowers. Now 116 Starlight rose if you're really fast takes a little less than an hour. So that's 3 hours of farming mats for their 6 hour raid schedule. If you're not doing anything else and have 3 hours outside of doing world quests, daily dungeons, mythic+, alts, etc, then you can easily sustain it.

Now consider the hundreds of guilds pushing 12-16 hours, where every person in the raid is expected to spend about half of their raid time gathering mats to raid. And if you're a top guild, pushing 20-30 easily even before mythic, and then 40+ on mythics, with multiple alt clears of heroic (all using consumes), you have a massive frontloaded cost that equals months of raiding for average players.

If all you're doing is normal/heroic, you don't need those consumes. I could go in taking of 4 pieces of my gear without consumes and clear heroic. Those aren't the people who complain about this. There's a reason the top guilds were buying these things in bulk and asking for donations, and there's a reason there are tons of bots out there right now. We're trying to spend every second we can outside of raid running mythic+, which makes it completely infeasible to gather herbs. And given the prices, you're talking about ~66k + 12k = 78k gold per raid week for the casual 6 hour raider, for a more reasonable schedule in the first few weeks, that's 150-200k. Most people aren't sitting on millions of gold, so if you don't have the time, you run out of gold, and that's after we spent gold to get early enchants, crafted gear, etc.

Gold sales, bots, etc are all a thing right now because Blizzard fucked this up. One or two people can't cover any guild but extremely casual ones or guilds not raiding mythic.

We're about to start selling heroic/mythic EN clears for absurd prices because carrying we're going to have to blow consumes, so it has to cover consumes plus give enough gold to cover the expense of getting this far, plus prepare us for the next raid. Get ready to pay through the nose for carries.

[Riistov]

No, stop being dramatic.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Yeah don't buy more than you can afford, simple as that.

If you are raiding in an even remotely serious guild, you will want to have consumables, period. Showing up without flasks/food/pots is not an option. Simple as that.

The problem is that the mats required to craft pots and flasks are so retarded. Sure, you can farm them yourself, but doing so takes a loooooong time. I mean, the retarded mats requirement is the reason why the prices aren't going down in the first place. In the past, you needed like 3 herbs per pot, now you need 2x 4 regular herbs, and 2 of the "rare" herb. Flask mats requirements are even more retarded.

There simply isn't enough time to do it all atm. I want to farm consumables sure, but I also want to farm gear in Mythic+, and I also want to get my WQs done to keep up in AP. When you have the choice between those, you usually choose to buy the consumables, and spend your actually increasing the power of your char. The problem is that this isn't anywhere close to sustainable atm.


I really can't wait for the Blood of Sargeras vendor in 7.1. Hopefully it will completely annihilate the price of herbs, resulting in somewhat normal prices for consumables again...

[Deleted]

i was exaggerating. but people with the mindset of "oh, just don't use your pots on every pull." annoy me because they don't seem to understand that pretty much every pull is a potential kill. you don't have to be a casual to understand that.

How can be first 5-10 pulls be a kill? (without playing beta obviously). Only encounter i find that easy to get on the first pulls because it's similar to HC is actually Xavius, where you can get a kill in about 10 pulls after the Cenarius wall; or Nythendra which is pretty much easy as soon as you learn to manage the mind controls. All other bosses can easily take 20+ pulls, mostly just testing strats.