Chicago police officer severely beaten said she was afraid to use her gun

[callipygoustp]

Congrats, you're coming to the realization that actions have consequences, roll up and start beating someone who is armed and they are fully within their right to terminate your existence. Boo hoo, what a tragic loss to humanity.

Oh I do believe actions have consequences. I certainly didn't need mmo-c to teach me that. However, I expect consequences, punishment in this case, to be in line with the crime committed. I wonder how many societies give out a death penalty for assault.

[Daelak]

It took you one incredibly long run-on sentence so say absolutely nothing of importance. You didn't even read what I wrote correctly.

You're rabid man, you do no one any good when you come into a discussion to spout toxic rhetoric with no intention of having a civil discourse whatsoever. I've read some of your hateful, ignorant posts. You clearly have an agenda, and no issues with pushing it at the cost of facts and intelligent debate.

You won't listen to anyone... so, enjoy your angry vacuum.

It is important, because if a majority of US police officers come from military backgrounds, then obviously there is a glaring error in which ex-military skills are not computing with traditional police protocol.

[Mistame]

She didn't have reasonable fear for her life just because she was being beaten. That's the part you folks keep missing.

No, the part you're missing is that she did.

You're arguing that literally ANY force warrants lethal force in response.

Hyperbole is not an argument. Try again.

[Theinquisition]

Yeah yeah, I get it we're on the internet so its okay to say these things. Or maybe not, maybe in a non-anonymous environment you would support assault receiving the death penalty.

I don't say anything on here that I wouldn't say to someone's face.

[Endus]

definitely not for the case of Thomas Juntas, who beat a guy to death, but ya lets continue to ignore factual links that show it can definitely happen.

the only position that is ridiculous is yours in assuming that physical assaults can't result in death.

I've never said it can't happen. But the standard for deadly force is whether that particular attack is likely to be lethal. Not possibly, likely. And a punch does not meet that standard. The overwhelming majority of unarmed beatings don't kill anyone. It's not likely to kill you or cause grievous bodily harm. That it can is fundamentally irrelevant.

I'd read up on the stand your ground statutes and the precedents set in the courts of their respective states before making a stupid claim because I'd sure hate for you to make a stupid claim.

We're talking about Chicago, Illinois, and Illinois doesn't have any stand-your-ground statutes. I mean, I keep citing the relevant laws, but you keep ignoring them like this.

[Theinquisition]

No, the part you're missing is that she did.



Hyperbole is not an argument. Try again.

well said sir.

[callipygoustp]

You do understand that there's a difference between shooting someone in self-defense and the death penalty, right?

Of course I do. I also understand that punishment should fit the crime.

I can't be the only one to have gotten into various physical fights though out their life. I don't think anyone that beat me up deserves to die and, even more, I hope that the people I beat up don't wish for me to die.

[Paranoid Android]

I think every case should be investigated fully by a un-associated organization. This was actually a big conversation we've had in my contemporary policy challenges class. Who should review the cases? I proposed a out of state police agency.....but I digress

Hey Tony we agree!

You're right, not every shooting is justified, where I get jaded is when armchair quarterbacks subject the policeman to the court of public opinion, threaten their lives, and their families lives, before any of the facts have been established. Mike Brown is a perfect example of this.

Didn't we just agree that this can come from the other side that jumps to the cop being innocent? Yes, I understand that people like to jump to one side and take a hard stand on their position.

[Darkrulerxxx]

I've never said it can't happen. But the standard for deadly force is whether that particular attack is likely to be lethal. Not possibly, likely. And a punch does not meet that standard. The overwhelming majority of unarmed beatings don't kill anyone. It's not likely to kill you or cause grievous bodily harm. That it can is fundamentally irrelevant.



We're talking about Chicago, Illinois, and Illinois doesn't have any stand-your-ground statutes. I mean, I keep citing the relevant laws, but you keep ignoring them like this.

but HOW can you say definitively that in this particular case, it wasn't? It could very well be that her life could be gone if it wasn't for the other two officers showing up?

[Varitok]

I hope she makes a speedy recovery but how can 3 officers not subdue one suspect? Drugs, contrary to what people think, do not turn you into the hulk or a trained fighter.

thats wrong, a friend of a friend had a lot of drugs in his system and beat the hell out of 5 cops until they managed to tase him and even then it took a really long time.

[callipygoustp]

I don't say anything on here that I wouldn't say to someone's face.

I believe you but the sentiment you express, in my social circles, would be expressed by very very very few people; even including my friends that are ex-military and the couple of friends and family that i have that are deputy sheriffs.

[Daelak]

Ahh the failsafe argument of a leftist who has no better point to make.

Say racist again, I'm sure it'll be even more effective next time!

That is the point; the incoherent ramblings of the "law and order" crowd make is exceedingly simple to point out who ascribes to racist and segregational beliefs.

[hydrium]

I've never said it can't happen. But the standard for deadly force is whether that particular attack is likely to be lethal. Not possibly, likely. And a punch does not meet that standard. The overwhelming majority of unarmed beatings don't kill anyone. It's not likely to kill you or cause grievous bodily harm. That it can is fundamentally irrelevant.



We're talking about Chicago, Illinois, and Illinois doesn't have any stand-your-ground statutes. I mean, I keep citing the relevant laws, but you keep ignoring them like this.

I mean, you can continue being wrong and all if you want....

https://www.illinoislegalaid.org/leg...n/self-defense



"If you’re defending yourself or someone else, you can use deadly force if you believe it’s necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to yourself or another person.

When you are defending yourself or someone else, or stopping someone from trespassing on or criminally interfering with other property, deadly force is also allowed to prevent forcible felony such as:

Sexual assault
Battery
Murder
Robbery
Arson

Finally, you can use deadly force to prevent an assault or threat of violence against yourself or someone else in a home or other building, but only if you use it against someone who is trying to enter in a violent manner. This can be difficult to prove."

[Theinquisition]

I believe you but the sentiment you express, in my social circles, would be expressed by very very very few people; even including my friends that are ex-military and the couple of friends and family that i have that are deputy sheriffs.

Meh, what can I say. I get irritated by our justice system letting career criminals out of jail to victimize people over and over again. Look at Alton Sterling, dude was convicted of rape, battery, aggravated battery, robbery..etc etc. Why was this guy even OUT of jail? Nothing of value was lost when he died. In fact id argue it was a net gain to society

[Endus]

No, the part you're missing is that she did.

How so? I've already listed the relevant laws in Illinois. They seem to clearly contradict this. And the officer in question was by no means convinced she was justified, which is why she didn't use deadly force.

but HOW can you say definitively that in this particular case, it wasn't? It could very well be that her life could be gone if it wasn't for the other two officers showing up?

Because that's not how any of this works. She has to demonstrate that, in that moment, a reasonable person would think that her attacker posed a deadly threat. Not "a threat of getting beat up real bad". That she was likely to be killed or suffer serious bodily harm.

There's no details on her injuries, but it seems her actual injuries don't even amount to that standard, either, so talking about hypotheticals really doesn't help things.

[Archmage Khadgar]

Serious question, are cops in the US even equipped with tasers? Or are there differences from state to state?

Varies. Our deputies just got them about a month ago, along with the training. Probably depends on whether or not each individual agency is able to pay for all of it.

[Theinquisition]

I mean, you can continue being wrong and all if you want....

https://www.illinoislegalaid.org/leg...n/self-defense



"If you’re defending yourself or someone else, you can use deadly force if you believe it’s necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to yourself or another person.

When you are defending yourself or someone else, or stopping someone from trespassing on or criminally interfering with other property, deadly force is also allowed to prevent forcible felony such as:

Sexual assault
Battery
Murder
Robbery
Arson

Finally, you can use deadly force to prevent an assault or threat of violence against yourself or someone else in a home or other building, but only if you use it against someone who is trying to enter in a violent manner. This can be difficult to prove."

damn Endus, hope you got some aloe for that burn.

As I was taught in my concealed carry courses....if you feel your life is in danger, you are justified in using force, just be sure you can defend that position in the court.

[Vash The Stampede]

She is alive, as is the other person. I'd say she did the right thing, though she did have her other non lethal options.

Taser
Pepper Spray
Baton to the knee
Fire gun at leg

Is death really the only option people see when dealing with violence?

[Theinquisition]

Varies. Our deputies just got them about a month ago, along with the training. Probably depends on whether or not each individual agency is able to pay for all of it.

How do you feel about cattle prods?

[Tsar Bomba]

Came for the pseudo-intellectual drivel, juxtaposed with unnecessary and blatantly condescending italics that only my man Endus can provide.

Was not disappointed.