[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Veiled Shadow]

Lol Brewmaster? That tank that next to no one plays because it requires more work for less effect than any other tank? Someone must be really salty to claim Monk is better than Warrior.

BrM doesn't take any more work than other tanks, and it isn't even bad. It's extremely solid for Ursoc as an example.

[Morally Grey Storm]

So I want to try a bit of Protribution.
I desperately want to maintain near-100% uptime on ShotR and I don't see the point in casting AS at all until I'v leveled up Truthguard at all.
Toss a few tips at me would you

[Sepelio]

Tips are, cast avengers shield, you aren't going to hit 100% sotr, you'll have free gcd's

[Gutterking]

Cast AS for starters. That'll get you half way there.

[Marrilaife]

I don't see the point in casting AS

1. Picking up mobs
2. Interrupting casters
3. DPS

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you'll have free gcd's

I very rarely have them and my haste levels aren't even that good (damn that crit gear everywhere).

Ok, Paladins and DKs are the only tanks without spammable no-cd filler but it's nowhere near as bad as people suggest.

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On a side note, was checking healing logs and noticed my blessed hammer shows on them, am I missing something? I never thought this ability heals? But for example on mythic elerethe it says it did 6+ million healing.

[OrcinusDrake]

The DR effect of BH is recorded as a heal.

[Rarch]

I know people say Prot Paladin is really good, but I've been struggling a lot on my alt (around 850 ilvl) in Mythic+. I'm not really planning on raiding with the Prot Paladin, but even Mythic +5/6 is a struggle for me when tanking. I've always been pretty good at Prot, but Legion has apparently confounded me. I just don't understand what else I could be doing to survive better. I use SotR and my heal in Consecration, but I can't think of anything else that I can optimize as far as survivability goes than that.

I don't know the class as well as I know my main, so I'm just using Icy Veins' recommended talent spec with Hand of the Protector and Righteous Protector. I did just notice that I didn't have Bastion of Light, so I fixed that. Not sure how much of a difference that will make on the average trash pull, though.

I have a feeling my stats may be part of the issue. The gear I've managed to get has put me at 21% Crit, 17% Haste, 19% Mastery, 7% Versatility. Would getting some lucky drops and reoptimizing for Versatility/Haste make enough difference for me to feel more comfortable, or is it likely that I'm just missing something in my play style?

If anyone has tips about SotR uptime, or anything else you think someone who didn't play the prepatch may just be completely clueless about, I'd love to get some insight. I just feel so unbelievably squishy, it's depressing.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry guys I don't understand anything in terme of simcraft, and there is so much information in this thread I don't understand everything (knowing my first language is french it's even more difficult ^^). From what I've seen on Icyveins and talking with a few Paladin in big Fr guild I optimisiated my stuff going for the higher Ilvl trying to get as much Versatility/Haste possible. So concretly if I had a piece of gear Versatility>Haste 850 and found a piece of gear Haste>Mastery 855 I would equip it. But I'm feeling like my stuff isn't really good in terme of surviability. So can you confirme this (in terme of surviability only, I don't care about DPS for know) is Versatility>Haste>=Mastery>>Crit true? And again what are the stat weight like lets say I have a Crit>Mastery piece of gear, how much difference in Ilvl would a Versatility>Haste be better?

I usually only pick items 5 levels lower if the lower one has haste and the higher one does not. I never pick anything more than 5 item levels below the best one I have. There is one exception where I used 840 gloves with haste/versa instead of 850 gloves with crit/mastery, but that might be debatable. Generally, using the highest item level is fine, because stamina and armor are very valuable tanking stats. Sometimes going for 5 ilvls less to grab that extra bit of haste or versatility is OK, but I would not go any further than that.

I very rarely have them and my haste levels aren't even that good (damn that crit gear everywhere).

Ok, Paladins and DKs are the only tanks without spammable no-cd filler but it's nowhere near as bad as people suggest.

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On a side note, was checking healing logs and noticed my blessed hammer shows on them, am I missing something? I never thought this ability heals? But for example on mythic elerethe it says it did 6+ million healing.

More haste doesn't make more GCDs "available" because it equally reduces the GCD and the spells that we use to fill them. Haste has no impact on our rotation other than speeding it up unless you start hitting the soft cap, which is at 100% IIRC. At that point, you'll start seeing certain breakpoints but those are so far apart and so high that nobody really cares about them.

Blessed Hammer shows as absorb in the healing meters. It's the 15% damage reduction to melee hits that you see. It's nice because it let's you quantify right there how much it helps. BTW, the blocked spells of Holy Shield used to show up as absorb too, at least during WoD, I haven't tested HS in Legion yet, but it might still show up.

[Deleted]

I know people say Prot Paladin is really good, but I've been struggling a lot on my alt (around 850 ilvl) in Mythic+. I'm not really planning on raiding with the Prot Paladin, but even Mythic +5/6 is a struggle for me when tanking. I've always been pretty good at Prot, but Legion has apparently confounded me. I just don't understand what else I could be doing to survive better. I use SotR and my heal in Consecration, but I can't think of anything else that I can optimize as far as survivability goes than that.

I don't know the class as well as I know my main, so I'm just using Icy Veins' recommended talent spec with Hand of the Protector and Righteous Protector. I did just notice that I didn't have Bastion of Light, so I fixed that. Not sure how much of a difference that will make on the average trash pull, though.

I have a feeling my stats may be part of the issue. The gear I've managed to get has put me at 21% Crit, 17% Haste, 19% Mastery, 7% Versatility. Would getting some lucky drops and reoptimizing for Versatility/Haste make enough difference for me to feel more comfortable, or is it likely that I'm just missing something in my play style?

If anyone has tips about SotR uptime, or anything else you think someone who didn't play the prepatch may just be completely clueless about, I'd love to get some insight. I just feel so unbelievably squishy, it's depressing.

I would recommend using Last Defender instead of Righteous Protector in Dungeons.

[TwentyTwelve]

I know people say Prot Paladin is really good, but I've been struggling a lot on my alt (around 850 ilvl) in Mythic+. I'm not really planning on raiding with the Prot Paladin, but even Mythic +5/6 is a struggle for me when tanking. I've always been pretty good at Prot, but Legion has apparently confounded me. I just don't understand what else I could be doing to survive better. I use SotR and my heal in Consecration, but I can't think of anything else that I can optimize as far as survivability goes than that.

I don't know the class as well as I know my main, so I'm just using Icy Veins' recommended talent spec with Hand of the Protector and Righteous Protector. I did just notice that I didn't have Bastion of Light, so I fixed that. Not sure how much of a difference that will make on the average trash pull, though.

I have a feeling my stats may be part of the issue. The gear I've managed to get has put me at 21% Crit, 17% Haste, 19% Mastery, 7% Versatility. Would getting some lucky drops and reoptimizing for Versatility/Haste make enough difference for me to feel more comfortable, or is it likely that I'm just missing something in my play style?

If anyone has tips about SotR uptime, or anything else you think someone who didn't play the prepatch may just be completely clueless about, I'd love to get some insight. I just feel so unbelievably squishy, it's depressing.

I made a comment a while ago after shortly re rolling to prot and getting slapped in mythics too.
I would say prot is fine at any but Halls of Valor - that place has insane burst dmg i;d rather run it on a high health pool tank tbh.
You will fine yourself way more tanky with last defender in mythics - also take final stand for some nasty trash packs (think halls of valor wolves).

[avoidconfusion]

SoTR is just as good if not better than prenerf IP.

Yes... yes of course...

[Demsi]

So I want to try a bit of Protribution.
I desperately want to maintain near-100% uptime on ShotR and I don't see the point in casting AS at all until I'v leveled up Truthguard at all.
Toss a few tips at me would you

1. Always cast AS, no reason not to, the silence is great against casting adds
2. you cant have 100% uptime on SOTR, use it for when you know that you are going to take heavy damage (like a boss ability for example)
always keep atleast 1 charge available at all times, not having SOTR when you need it the most is a sure way to die.

[Marrilaife]

The DR effect of BH is recorded as a heal.

Blessed Hammer shows as absorb in the healing meters. It's the 15% damage reduction to melee hits that you see. It's nice because it let's you quantify right there how much it helps. BTW, the blocked spells of Holy Shield used to show up as absorb too, at least during WoD, I haven't tested HS in Legion yet, but it might still show up.

Thanks guys for clarification, I expected it to count as some form of block (partially reduced melee hits, similar mechanic). Well at least it means the talent is doing its job.

Any boss you'd recommend holy shield instead?

I used to be very skeptical of blessed hammer but got used to it as it helped pick groups of mobs (things like BRH gauntlet).

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I made a comment a while ago after shortly re rolling to prot and getting slapped in mythics too.

I know a guildie who is mainspec ret but plays tank in mythic+ for faster groups and he has the same experience yet he insists on playing with seraphim... I was under the impression if you tank dungeons (and not raid bosses where you have gaps in taking damage due to tank swaps etc.) you lose a lot of SOTR uptime if you play Seraphim, and the stats from Sera aren't exactly making up for it defensive wise, just in dps, allowing you to burst more.

[OrcinusDrake]

Any boss you'd recommend holy shield instead?

I used it on Heroic Cenarius, not sure whether it's able to match dps-wise with BH but it really cuts the dot damage down.
e: Looking at logs though, I might be the only one lol

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Thanks guys for clarification, I expected it to count as some form of block (partially reduced melee hits, similar mechanic). Well at least it means the talent is doing its job.

Any boss you'd recommend holy shield instead?

I used to be very skeptical of blessed hammer but got used to it as it helped pick groups of mobs (things like BRH gauntlet).

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I know a guildie who is mainspec ret but plays tank in mythic+ for faster groups and he has the same experience yet he insists on playing with seraphim... I was under the impression if you tank dungeons (and not raid bosses where you have gaps in taking damage due to tank swaps etc.) you lose a lot of SOTR uptime if you play Seraphim, and the stats from Sera aren't exactly making up for it defensive wise, just in dps, allowing you to burst more.

Last Defender for dungeons, Righteous Protector for raid bosses, Seraphim for content you outgear.

[Tyrean]

So I was interested in the discussion about block not working correctly and I just went and looked at the logs of our prot pal tank on heroic nyth. I just looked at melee swings...

108 total melee swings.
17 Parry
10 Block
81 Hits

So it was 16% Parry, 12% block. Armory shows him as 17.5% Parry, 19.5% Block. The parry seems within reason for a small 100 event sample, but block seems low? I must be missing something, apologies if you guys have already figured out the DR on mastery or some interaction between mastery and base block, this is not my main class and I was just interested.

[Mooragan]

So I was interested in the discussion about block not working correctly and I just went and looked at the logs of our prot pal tank on heroic nyth. I just looked at melee swings...

108 total melee swings.
17 Parry
10 Block
81 Hits

So it was 16% Parry, 12% block. Armory shows him as 17.5% Parry, 19.5% Block. The parry seems within reason for a small 100 event sample, but block seems low? I must be missing something, apologies if you guys have already figured out the DR on mastery or some interaction between mastery and base block, this is not my main class and I was just interested.

If I remember correctly that is due to blocks only happening on hits that was not parry or dodged. So you should first subtract the 17 parries from the 108 which leaves us with 91 swings to calculate blocks from.

[Tyrean]

If I remember correctly that is due to blocks only happening on hits that was not parry or dodged. So you should first subtract the 17 parries from the 108 which leaves us with 91 swings to calculate blocks from.

Which is what I did. It is actually 11% block, I actually mistyped when I put 12%. So it is a full 8.5% below what it should be. Which I find odd since that is roughly the base block amount....

[celinamuna]

Which is what I did. It is actually 11% block, I actually mistyped when I put 12%. So it is a full 8.5% below what it should be. Which I find odd since that is roughly the base block amount....

RNG 10char

[Rarch]

I would recommend using Last Defender instead of Righteous Protector in Dungeons.

I made a comment a while ago after shortly re rolling to prot and getting slapped in mythics too.
I would say prot is fine at any but Halls of Valor - that place has insane burst dmg i;d rather run it on a high health pool tank tbh.
You will fine yourself way more tanky with last defender in mythics - also take final stand for some nasty trash packs (think halls of valor wolves).

Thanks for the tips guys, I'll try out Last Defender in my next Mythic+. I was going to ask if I should switch off Hand of the Protector if I'm not taking Righteous Protector. It still lowers the CD on the heal a bit, right? I'll mess around with Final Stand, too. Need to redo my keybinds a bit to make it bubble more easily accessible.