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  1. #1

    About mythic 10+

    I'm aware that some classes are having trouble with AoE, but a lot of people seem say it doesn't matter in the beginning as well as tank. I am curious; anyone actually had dps issues because of their class at 10+? I mean you've actually attempted it and there was nothing you can do.

    Beyond that, are any tanks having issues from either the tanks' or healers' perspective? I know the mechanics matter like CC, moving, interrupting, but were there any tanks that still had issues despite doing that or are significantly more difficult to heal through?

    I am not sure how much of the information is true/biased so I'm hoping people who do have experience in 10+ reply.

  2. #2
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    As a healer (resto shaman) doing high end mythic runs around +9 and higher it starts to get really hairy on certain classes. Depending on the affixes there's just some tanks that are impossible to keep up longer than others, stuff like necrotic and raging make already squishy tanks like DH and BM impossible to heal after a certain while.
    Compared to bears and warriors they are just way too spiky sometimes, the strength in DH lies in their ability to selfheal absurd amounts, but what does that matter if 10 stacks of necrotic after a mere few seconds render their class almost useless in their capability to tank effectively.
    Then you have BM monks who got stripped from their shielding because blizzard hated passive shielding by the press of a button and then proceed to give it to warriors instead. Not only do BM monks have to pull twice the amount of work that every other tank does, but that's only to be on pair with the others and then i'd rather have a full proof tank unless i'm fully behind the person playing it.
    Last week in EU we had necrotic, raging and fortified (If i remember correctly) and it was a shit show to be honest and you practically had to CC every single mob in the trash packs.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    As a healer (resto shaman) doing high end mythic runs around +9 and higher it starts to get really hairy on certain classes. Depending on the affixes there's just some tanks that are impossible to keep up longer than others, stuff like necrotic and raging make already squishy tanks like DH and BM impossible to heal after a certain while.
    Compared to bears and warriors they are just way too spiky sometimes, the strength in DH lies in their ability to selfheal absurd amounts, but what does that matter if 10 stacks of necrotic after a mere few seconds render their class almost useless in their capability to tank effectively.
    Then you have BM monks who got stripped from their shielding because blizzard hated passive shielding by the press of a button and then proceed to give it to warriors instead. Not only do BM monks have to pull twice the amount of work that every other tank does, but that's only to be on pair with the others and then i'd rather have a full proof tank unless i'm fully behind the person playing it.
    Last week in EU we had necrotic, raging and fortified (If i remember correctly) and it was a shit show to be honest and you practically had to CC every single mob in the trash packs.
    Yeah.. I went windwalker. I say I really did enjoy BM, but when I saw our fillers mitigation compare, the "wall" technique, blackout combos, a 7 min CD that is a 7 min CD, a ton of traits centered around that 7 min CD. The shield thing was pretty funny, I have no idea how that one made it to live after healing it in beta.

  4. #4
    The affixes are really unbalanced for some tank/healer specs. Any tank that relies on self heals is pretty much unplayable with necrotic. Also stuff like overflowing is insanely easy to deal with with a resto druid, but on other classes its a pain. Hope they rebalance them, because I had the worst time of my life trying to tank a necrotic dungeon with my blood dk.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Syld View Post
    The affixes are really unbalanced for some tank/healer specs. Any tank that relies on self heals is pretty much unplayable with necrotic. Also stuff like overflowing is insanely easy to deal with with a resto druid, but on other classes its a pain. Hope they rebalance them, because I had the worst time of my life trying to tank a necrotic dungeon with my blood dk.
    When you unexpectedly crit for 2m on serenity as your tank pops soul cleave...

  6. #6
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    Did maw8, eye8 and dht7 with necrotic as a vengeance dh. Get your aggro and start kiting the mobs. The affixes are meant to change your play style.

  7. #7
    speaking of dh's I really feel blizz needs to give them that just helps them stay active longer (idk something to shorten cds based on # of enemies hit), they're not even bad in most EN fights where demon spikes matches their active time better (other than renferal), but god, they get their shit kicked in when demon spikes falls off in M+ dungeons

  8. #8
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    Ive done some +9 and one +10(not in time) and quite a lot others. It seems that druids are far superior tanks compared to others however DH has awesome tools for kiting. If u facetank packs with necrotic/raging as DH the whole fight ull probably end up dying.

    What Id like to hear from u guys is what u think about bosses @ +10 and ttyrannical affix. Its multiplicative with the reguar hp increase. I was doing BRH +10 and it was going okayish, probably not good enough for timed but still fine untill we got to 3rd boss. His charge+stomp combo was deadly we often died to it and since it was +180% hp the fight was very long and room was getting filled with bats' shit. So there was very little space in the end and once u got stomped and knocked into the green vomit it was gg. Eventually weve beaten him.
    The fun started @ last boss. Unexpected isnt it? Well think its a bug but he manages to cast one shadowbolt volley BEFORE u get ravencrest's buff. It kinda one shots you. we had to pop like every single survival CD. Quite unusuall that a ability , shadow bolt volley, was pretty much unnoticed before and now since tyrannical it became whole fight.
    Have u encountered any fishy or simply much harder bosses to beat in high M+ with tyrannical? I'd like to hear ur stories :P
    Last edited by mmoc3a1791a45a; 2016-10-08 at 09:59 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syld View Post
    The affixes are really unbalanced for some tank/healer specs. Any tank that relies on self heals is pretty much unplayable with necrotic. Also stuff like overflowing is insanely easy to deal with with a resto druid, but on other classes its a pain. Hope they rebalance them, because I had the worst time of my life trying to tank a necrotic dungeon with my blood dk.
    Yeah, at least DH can kite off the stacks well... DK is in total gutter with Necrotic.

  10. #10
    I ran a +11 Court (Got 2 chests, Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX5bmMJQoCA) and a +13 Archway yesterday, with the following setup:

    DK Tank, Holy Paladin, Fire Mage, Outlaw Rogue, Destruction Warlock (Me).

    Since the Mage and Rogue have innate aoe, I specced pure single target (Cleave, with Wreak Havoc), to make sure we could get the priority targets down, and to control the aoe cleave, in order to manage bolstering so mobs died almost at the same time.

    What matters most tbh in higher Mythics is to make sure your comp is balanced, that you have stuns and interrupts and that you COMMUNICATE your intents on those abilities in order to avoid overlapping.

    In regards to the question about Tyrannical affix, it certainly makes some bosses more deadly - Especially bosses that scales with time (Court of Stars last boss, EoA last boss and more), since more health in it self adds more time, which in turns makes the boss deal more damage, on top of the damage modifier. I would recommend potting/flasking for 10/11+ and onwards depending on your gear level. As for the BRH last boss, the first shadow bolt volley is meant to be deadly, and it should really only be the first one that is dangerous, and is where you have to save all your big cooldowns (mitigation, not much healing after so don't blow your HPS cooldowns).
    Last edited by Nitrak; 2016-10-08 at 10:45 AM.
    "If everything is under control, you are going too slow."
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  11. #11
    Tyrannical is pretty ridiculous, and I'm kind of surprised it stayed in after the massive amount of negative feedback it got in beta.
    Anyway, I'd say some of the bosses that get REALLY hard with Tyrannical that were jokes before are:

    Hyrja. Her random light nuke nears one-shot damage with Tyrannical, and storm becomes actually challenging to heal. I'm not a huge fan of one-shots that you can't interrupt/stun on non-tanks, but I guess that's part of the ilvl barrier that Blizzard loves.

    Wrath of Azshara. Baseline 400k hps just to counteract the ticking raid damage, not even counting the tank damage and if anyone fucks up and hits anything. Very fun fight but one of the more insane encounters in 5 mans with this affix.

    Ymiron (unless you have a prot warrior). Tyrannical Ymiron's Dark Slash demolishes pretty much every tank except warrior who can spell reflect it for a free 2-5M (depending on level) damage, and maybe our Guardian overlords who just can't die to anything anyway.

    Shade of Xavius. Again, not a huge fan of the one-shots from Nightmare Bolt on a random target with no counter besides hoping they have a personal still available. The other mechanics are fun, but nightmare bolt just... isn't.

    Helya. This one isn't as bad as some of the others, but the tentacles in P1 really need some kind of internal cd on their first melee. We had a lot of wipes to people getting crit by a tentacle melee as it spawned under them before the tank could taunt it.

    Advisor Melandrus. Probably the hardest dps check in 5 mans this xpac. Absolutely brutal group damage, no way around it except to kill him before he kills you. One of the few 5-man encounters where you probably want a defensive cd rotation to manage the incoming damage on the group.

    Ularogg Cragshaper. Not as bad as some others, but the sunder timer in Littlewigs is nonexistent or inconsistent at best, which is a problem when the ability easily one-shots a tank on a .25s cast time... Other than that an easy fight, and surprisingly kitable (we had a 6 minute fight against him once with our tank dead less than a minute in, which was both hilarious and pretty stupid). With timers this would be a completely trivial encounter though, so I'm not sure if that really counts.

    But yeah, I'm having fun trying to get through +10s, I just wish there were less unavoidable one-shot mechanics on some of the bosses.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    From seeing all the high ones being done with a huge variety of DPS classes i think anyone can do up to around 10-11 atleast. The only thing is every group ever created for higher ones probably has a fire mage in it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Azszora View Post
    Did maw8, eye8 and dht7 with necrotic as a vengeance dh. Get your aggro and start kiting the mobs. The affixes are meant to change your play style.
    2 of these are considered top 3 easiest, and the other is 15% weaker mobs than +8 and around 50% weaker than +10 (before fortified)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saiyoran View Post
    Ularogg Cragshaper. Not as bad as some others, but the sunder timer in Littlewigs is nonexistent or inconsistent at best, which is a problem when the ability easily one-shots a tank on a .25s cast time... Other than that an easy fight, and surprisingly kitable (we had a 6 minute fight against him once with our tank dead less than a minute in, which was both hilarious and pretty stupid). With timers this would be a completely trivial encounter though, so I'm not sure if that really counts.
    Like most dungeon boss abilities its a cooldown which then fits into the bosses priority list rather than a set timer - but DBM handles this sufficiently. If you wait a couple seconds after the cooldown for sunder is off to use your mitigation - noting that it's nature damage rather than physical - you'll catch it before your AM wears off. For tanks that can't have some form of global/magical cooldown up for everyone - communicate.

    OT: We've had a shadow priest on our 10's each week so far and it's felt alright. Sure it'd be a little easier with someone who brings more aoe (or a high ST that doesn't guarantee -5 seconds off the timer!) but someone who understands when they need to be using the tools they have, communicating well etc. is infinitely more valuable than a mage who does none of the above.
    Last edited by Raiju; 2016-10-10 at 11:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    (or a high ST that doesn't guarantee -5 seconds off the timer!)
    Luckily they're fixing this so StM might actually be viable in 5mans!
    Feels really bad not being able to use the talent that doubles your ST damage because it fucks the timer and might require a hard rez depending on where your respawn point is.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Syld View Post
    The affixes are really unbalanced for some tank/healer specs. Any tank that relies on self heals is pretty much unplayable with necrotic. Also stuff like overflowing is insanely easy to deal with with a resto druid, but on other classes its a pain. Hope they rebalance them, because I had the worst time of my life trying to tank a necrotic dungeon with my blood dk.
    Ironically bears who are usually self heal gods are also necrotic gods cause dodging bosses can completely drop the debuff on boss fights.

  16. #16
    I've done dht+13, arcway+14, votw+15 with dh tank.

    Class doesn't matter on 10+. But some class need better gear than good class.

    If you are unsure, take bear . Bear is op stuff now.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    Compared to bears and warriors they are just way too spiky sometimes, the strength in DH lies in their ability to selfheal absurd amounts, but what does that matter if 10 stacks of necrotic after a mere few seconds render their class almost useless in their capability to tank effectively.
    Actually as a DH tank I heal way less than DK. I honestly could live without my self healing. My strength lies not in self healing but in avoiding attacks. It's generally between 30-40%. The reason why we're spiky is when our Demon Spikes buff is down. That's -30/40% parry as well as -40% (or so, depending on mastery) physical damage reduction.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andriokz View Post
    a 7 min CD that is a 7 min CD
    Brewmasters are indeed in a bad place, but its not because fortifying brew has a 7 minute CD (hint: it doesn't).

  19. #19
    What ilvl are you guys clearing mythic 10+? We cleared 10 last week but this week's tyrannical on Hyrja is pretty much killing us. Recovering from lightning is almost impossible.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bbundaegi View Post
    What ilvl are you guys clearing mythic 10+? We cleared 10 last week but this week's tyrannical on Hyrja is pretty much killing us. Recovering from lightning is almost impossible.
    Were 860~ first time, now 870-875 on all in my group.
    Had tyrannical first time we did 10.

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