Why was the war/titanforged system ever implemented? Are there any benefits at all?

[Relapses]

The "why" is pretty easy to explain. It's to keep the gear treadmill relevant for all content.

The benefit is less clear. It's a system which keeps players interested in content which they may have previously had no desire to complete. But the offset is that gear feels far less unique than it has in the past. The prestige of a BiS Mythic piece is lessened when you inspect a guy with a version of the same piece that's 10 ilvls higher than the one you got which he obtained in the LFR. Blizzard's ideology is in the right direction but I'd be fairly surprised if this gear systems continues into the next expansion. (Or even until the end of this one.)

[Dangg]

I don't think some casual getting a 890 TF out of a hero dungeon is a big deal.
Getting a titanforged item is just a fun moment for a player, however it's rare enough that it doesn't ruin balance in the long run imo and it's just 1/17 slots.

Legendaries however....

[Grimnakh]

Personally I like the idea that there is no end to the game, that there is always a higher mythic plus, and better items that can drop. Finishing the content and having all the best gear just feels bad for me, so I'm perfectly happy with the current system other than legendaries being too rare.

[Tradu]

It is Diablo 3 system.

The bonus stat is random too !

No, in Diablo legendaries actually drop at a reasonable rate. It's pre-RoS/loot2.0 Diablo 3, which was fucking awful in that game as well.

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I fail to see how a random chance to get something better is a bad thing. You would rather that you didn't get something better? Or is it that you would rather that the other guy doesn't get something better than you?

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"The guy who plays more has an advantage"
Once again, that seems totally reasonable to me, and I am a raider.

Yes, I would rather not have running 5mans be the best method of gearing and getting AP, making the actual raids pointless outside of tier sets(assuming the bonuses are even any good by the time they get released) and progression through them.

And it's not even about "playing more", getting lucky can get you the same results as playing a lot, which is a stupid fucking system.

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ding ding ding

progress seems endless in WoW right now.

There will always be a slot you have no perfect item on. And thus there will still be thirsts for more.

Like basically every single slot could be like (current highest item lvl possible) with stamina + primary + best secondary + second best secondary + avoidance/leech/haste + socket.
And then all the legendaries.

It was definitively a smart move by blizzard. (from their point of view)

Except getting that full BiS set is so absurdly unrealistic that even trying to get it seems pointless(because 1 other item could throw the entire thing off again), so the system has the exact opposite effect(on me for sure, and probably others)

[Granyala]

Benefits?

The illusion that content is always relevant and dragging out actual item progression by adding yet another a layer of RNG between the player and BiS.

Also there are people out there that are addicted to the gambling aspect of RNG. (I'm not one of them)

Personally, I find the system to be utterly idiotic, so I won't bother with the gear treadmill this expansion.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

its legit the only reason for me to do lfr lol since it can if you are very very lucky give 870 gear

[Tradu]

NOW it does, and actually seems to be a form of endgame in and of itself.

In terms of gearing it's the endgame content, simply because you can run them indefinitely and keep getting gear.

[Granyala]

Except getting that full BiS set is so absurdly unrealistic that even trying to get it seems pointless(because 1 other item could throw the entire thing off again), so the system has the exact opposite effect(on me for sure, and probably others)

Winning the RL lottery is absurdly unrealistic too, yet you see countless morons spending their hard earned cash on tickets every week.
Not everyone is like us and has a firm understanding of mathematics and even less actually care about the consequences of said math.

[Tradu]

aren't all the stats on an item, prime/sec/tert/ect and sockets factored into the budget determined by the ilvl?

Only primary/secondary/armor. Sockets/tertiary are extra roll shit on top of the base item budget.

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I don't think some casual getting a 890 TF out of a hero dungeon is a big deal.
Getting a titanforged item is just a fun moment for a player, however it's rare enough that it doesn't ruin balance in the long run imo and it's just 1/17 slots.

Legendaries however....

I don't mind people getting ilevel 10000 gear from WQs as long as that gear primarily helps with doing WQs better(or 5mans or whatever). My problem is that parts of the game that I enjoy are getting negatively impacted in the process. DPS ranks for example, while trinket RNG already massively influenced them, have become a complete joke now when people just randomly have 10 higher ilevel than you, meaning you can't realistically compete for the top ranks.
So yeah, having gear/power increases that affect the specific part of the game that the thing came from would be great, but people complained so much about PvP gear that it got removed(a great example of a system where doing well in one area of the game improved your power level within that space, not the entire game). An example of the opposite would be pet battle WQs giving AP. That doesn't help you pet battle better in any way, it only affects literally everything else in the game.

[Tradu]

So you can only compete if others have bad gear? Or would you like to compete with flat out stats as in pvp (no legendary bonuses no trinkets no enchants no gems).

No, I can compete if there's some semblance of parity(so everybody has somewhat similar gear) in terms of the gear people have, like in the past once it's on farm. Getting rid of legendaries in addition to that would be fucking sweet, but Blizzard would never do that.

[Deleted]

No, I can compete if there's some semblance of parity(so everybody has somewhat similar gear) in terms of the gear people have, like in the past once it's on farm. Getting rid of legendaries in addition to that would be fucking sweet, but Blizzard would never do that.

The time investment to reach, say Mythic level of gear, without actually doing any Mythic raids is lot higher than doing Mythics. Of course you can get a lucky upgrade from say 5 man 840 to 880+ but going into EN Mythic will reward you it guaranteed. The easier content you do the harder it is for you to stay actually competitive.

I'll have to agree that the gap between having and not having a legendary is quite large though which is skewing the data currently. But if we go by what Blizzard has said previously then by Nighthold opening everyone should have at least 1.

[Tradu]

The time investment to reach, say Mythic level of gear, without actually doing any Mythic raids is lot higher than doing Mythics. Of course you can get a lucky upgrade from say 5 man 840 to 880+ but going into EN Mythic will reward you it guaranteed. The easier content you do the harder it is for you to stay actually competitive.

I'll have to agree that the gap between having and not having a legendary is quite large though which is skewing the data currently. But if we go by what Blizzard has said previously then by Nighthold opening everyone should have at least 1.

Problem is that raids are on a 1 week lockout, while you can spam M+ for as long as you want, so the quantity of gear you get makes up for the lower base quality.

[Blackmist]

Keeps you playing for upgrades. If that doesn't interest you, you're welcome to do what you normally do between raids. I like it tbh, you can get decent alt gear just from WQs.

[Crruor]

No, in Diablo legendaries actually drop at a reasonable rate. It's pre-RoS/loot2.0 Diablo 3, which was fucking awful in that game as well.

He isnt talking about legendaries (not that diablo 3 ones are anything like wow ones, legendaries are epics in that game)

It is 100% diablos system, it works exactly the same. Its not hard to get the gear you want, everyone can get bis in a few weeks or month but its almost impossible to be perfect due to statrolls and random upgrades.

Its the general idea of truely endless grinding. There always is a chance of a very small upgrade. And AP and paragon levels are also similar in that regard. WHile before if you got Bis geared you were done, now you just have to continue for that tiny chance of rolling your bis gear into even better versions.

[Tradu]

He isnt talking about legendaries (not that diablo 3 ones are anything like wow ones, legendaries are epics in that game)

It is 100% diablos system, it works exactly the same. Its not hard to get the gear you want, everyone can get bis in a few weeks or month but its almost impossible to be perfect due to statrolls and random upgrades.

Its the general idea of truely endless grinding. There always is a chance of a very small upgrade. And AP and paragon levels are also similar in that regard. WHile before if you got Bis geared you were done, now you just have to continue for that tiny chance of rolling your bis gear into even better versions.

Which is clearly a shit system for an MMO, considering how D3s play cycle goes. Season starts -> people play for 2-3 weeks -> quit until next season. It's the exact same "problem" that WoW supposedly already had, just amplified.

[Crruor]

Which is clearly a shit system for an MMO, considering how D3s play cycle goes. Season starts -> people play for 2-3 weeks -> quit until next season. It's the exact same "problem" that WoW supposedly already had, just amplified.

That is up for discussion, but the fact is that it is the D3 system, which is all i said. And the fact that D3 still has a farily large and active playerbase each season with 0 real content changes is impressive in itself.

[Deleted]

Problem is that raids are on a 1 week lockout, while you can spam M+ for as long as you want, so the quantity of gear you get makes up for the lower base quality.

Which still results to lot of time investment. I can not see how this is a problem unless you want to stay as competitive as someone who invests a lot of time with not investing the time yourself which sounds ridiculous as a design choice.

[Battlebeard]

It's an awful and cheap way to give the illusion that the game offer more content. I dispised WF/TF from the start back in MoP and will always hate it.

RNG = ALWAYS a bad thing!

[angrys13]

Which still results to lot of time investment. I can not see how this is a problem unless you want to stay as competitive as someone who invests a lot of time with not investing the time yourself which sounds ridiculous as a design choice.

This is not a good argument because RNG is still RNG.

There is a potential that me, or the guy I'm competing against, could get legendaries and all titanforged gear the first go round.

And then there is a potential that me, or the guy I'm competing against, could spend weeks and not get anything besides normalized drops.

I'll let you guess which category I fall into, and I can assure you after weeks upon weeks of farming, I still have not got a higher item level drop than 850.

There is, of course, the possibility, that if I didn't work my 40, I could have potentially found better items. BUT there's also the possibility I would not.

I have a friend who just hit 110, and within 8 hours, he got an 865 and an 860 item. Both higher than any piece I've seen since the expac released.

Therefore, I resort to the OP post and the original idea of how inflated ilvls are bad: RNG is RNG.

[Deleted]

Except getting that full BiS set is so absurdly unrealistic that even trying to get it seems pointless(because 1 other item could throw the entire thing off again), so the system has the exact opposite effect(on me for sure, and probably others)

Exactly what I am trying to say

People still want to get better gear though !