[GUIDE] Rogue Legion Overview!

[FenrizZJ]

what's up with AMR suggesting I use Mark of the Claw instead of Hidden Satyr?

I know Stjern's guide says Satyr, and from my sims I've had Satyr as the highest between Satyr/Army/Claw.

[Zoopercat]

@FenrizZJ what is your character name and realm? I'll look into the enchant for you.

[FenrizZJ]

@FenrizZJ what is your character name and realm? I'll look into the enchant for you.

Fenrìz on Zul'Jin (US). that's an alt+141 code not an I btw.

[Zoopercat]

It looks like claw is doing more dmg. Do you have links to sims that showed satyr as the highest?

Claw: 275k DPS
Satyr: 257k DPS

[FenrizZJ]

It looks like claw is doing more dmg. Do you have links to sims that showed satyr as the highest?

Claw: 275k DPS
Satyr: 257k DPS

your 2 links are the same, but I'll take your word for it. I don't have a link to the sim, maybe the couple upgrades I got changed the scaling of claw/satyr??

edit: also i'm not in the right spec atm. could have simmed in the wrong spec. i'll have to check again.

[Morween]

Guys ive got an 840 static agi/crit trinket and i got Spontaneous Appendages last night 865 version.Ive read in some places that this trinket simms worse than it preforms ingame , if anyone could give me advice wich trink to take . Im playing sub btw

[Zoopercat]

Sorry about that, here's the right 257k link: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...0a5b7a39284a1b

[Eazy]

Current logs in EN Mythic:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#class=Rogue

Current logs in EN Heroic:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...e&difficulty=4

Current logs in EN Normal:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...e&difficulty=3

Assassination and Outlaw are complately available right now, probably because of the reasons someone mentioned before(people weren't investing in Sub artifact and weren't gearing up for that spec).

I'm seriously thinking about changing from Outlaw to Assassination, it's my favourite spec, but changed to Outlaw because it was the best before the nerf.

[Master Guns]

I've been playing this game for over 10 years, I've said it before a hundred times, I'll say it again: playing a spec because it's currently "Better" in sims is the dumbest thing people can do, and this outlaw craze proved it. BLIZZARD SWAYS LIKE THE WIND. They nerf, nerf, and over nerf all the time. Everyone went outlaw. Guess what, they nerfed it. Who in their right mind is surprised? You must be new here.

Something else I've said before, yet I'm always flamed for by the elitists, play what you like, as long as it's viable. If spec A is 10 DPS higher and you're not a paid WoW player in Method or Premonition or whoever is on top these days, it really doesn't matter and you're not a simulator. You're going to make errors so that 10 DPS is literally irrelevant. inc haters

[elfporn]

I've been playing this game for over 10 years, I've said it before a hundred times, I'll say it again: playing a spec because it's currently "Better" in sims is the dumbest thing people can do, and this outlaw craze proved it. BLIZZARD SWAYS LIKE THE WIND. They nerf, nerf, and over nerf all the time. Everyone went outlaw. Guess what, they nerfed it. Who in their right mind is surprised? You must be new here.

Something else I've said before, yet I'm always flamed for by the elitists, play what you like, as long as it's viable. If spec A is 10 DPS higher and you're not a paid WoW player in Method or Premonition or whoever is on top these days, it really doesn't matter and you're not a simulator. You're going to make errors so that 10 DPS is literally irrelevant. inc haters

A Wild Casual appears!!!


I've been playing rogue for 11 years. Raiding since it was possible to raid. /flex. I'm an elitist jerk that used to compete against Elitist Jerks (/shakes fist@Rubberducky)

It's possible to casually raid where your crap dps and/or crap dps spec will not lose you your raid spot, then by all means, play what you want with a don't care attitude, be the one to hold your friends back. (Yes, dps isnt the only way to measure performance)

But if you're like me, and you have to compete for your raid spot in a large group(we have a 35man roster atm) then you better play the top dps spec, even if in the future it gets nerfed. That's called being a contributing member of a raid group.

This seems familiar though, i think i've had to explain this before to this person

[Master Guns]

A Wild Casual appears!!!


I've been playing rogue for 11 years. Raiding since it was possible to raid. /flex. I'm an elitist jerk that used to compete against Elitist Jerks (/shakes fist@Rubberducky)

It's possible to casually raid where your crap dps and/or crap dps spec will not lose you your raid spot, then by all means, play what you want with a don't care attitude, be the one to hold your friends back. (Yes, dps isnt the only way to measure performance)

But if you're like me, and you have to compete for your raid spot in a large group(we have a 35man roster atm) then you better play the top dps spec, even if in the future it gets nerfed. That's called being a contributing member of a raid group.

This seems familiar though, i think i've had to explain this before to this person

Then it seems that we are in different situations. I'm in a guild with friends, and we do content on a very casual basis. We don't have to worry about deadlines or world first, so the situation differs from yours if you're competing for a raid spot. I'm literally the best DPS in our guild, aside from a monk who occasionally slips ahead of me on our heroic kills, but that's about it.

You seem to be fixated on the fact that I care what your opinion is. Let me assure you; I do not. If you think that the ONLY way to play this game is your idea of what that means, then you're very short sighted and, sadly, ignorant. Because that's not true at all.

Being Assass isn't being "crap" if I'm 10 DPS behind the Outlaw rogue who's doing wildly varying DPS each pull because of the RNG that is RTB. If that's your cup of tea, well, by all means, have fun. But it's not mine, so I opted (from launch) to play the spec I enjoy.

And, as per usual when you quote and berate my posts, you missed the point entirely. I never said "PLAY WHAT YOU WANT LOLOL ALL ABOARD THE CASUAL BUS". I said, literally, play what you want, as long as it's viable.

Well, what's "viable" mean? I'm pretty sure that means as long as you're not dragging your team down. Seeing as how I'm the #1 DPS in our guild, and no, I never said I was in an amazing guild, I really don't think that's the issue. I'm actually trying to optimize within my own spec to see if poisons are bleed are better for my specific gear and stats, as you can see in the assassination thread in this very forum.

But back to the point I was making, is that unless you're like you (competing for raid spots and I hope raiding mythic, with as much shit talking as you do), it really doesn't matter. You used the word "elitist", well, it takes an elitist to insinuate that people not competing for world firsts should play a spec that is only a little ahead (see sims) when you hate the spec.

I'll be the first one to tell you, that if you're pushing cutting edge content, then by all means, speccing optimally is 100% important and is what should be done. I've been in that boat before. US top 100 guild in wrath during TOGC-ICC. I know, trust me. AGAIN: If you are on a pro team, paid to play, and are sponsored pushing cutting edge mythic content, this doesn't apply to you. But I didn't say that makes you an elitist, based on that criteria alone.

I truly eagerly await your reply, so that you can once again ignore everything I said, call me "mad"(like the guy who did and then deleted his post), and say some other absurd things about me.

TL;DR:

There's more than one way to play the game, and you quoting me and berating the mindset of differing playstyles and "not everything is for everyone" just makes me question your desire for the spreading of information to people, rather than you just wanting to push peoples buttons.

[elfporn]

It's not differing playstyles, you have every right to play in an easygoing casual guild where you're all friends and no one is left out because they're not able to perform well enough.

Its that you keep pushing your opinion that we should all ignore sims and play what we want as long as it's "viable". It's bad advice. We use the sims to gauge how well specs can perform in a variable environment. Over thousands of iterations and differing sims/fights/variables, we get averages for each spec, which gives us a way to compare and make informed choices.

At the start of the expac, outlaw was clearly ahead in sims, and it was reflected in logs. The sims demonstrated that sub would pull ahead with better gear.

Then they balanced the specs, outlaw was brought down, and is now just a good offspec for aoe heavy fights, and sub is better earlier than expected - all reflected in sims and logs.

So far nearly everything in the sims has been on-target, and is reflected in logs, though sub doesn't have a high representation in high end content yet because we're still leveling up our artifact and havn't gotten that second golden trait(my outlaw and sub weps are both lv 23)

TLDR: stop telling people to ignore sims and logs because they aren't paid to play so it shouldnt matter.

Also, one doesnt have to be cutting edge, paid to play, top 100, or even top 1000 to be in a competitive guild. You just have to want to be better, even if you're already top dps(and none of us should be top dps...yet)

PS: I enjoy replying to your posts because you're spreading bad advice, and are an unpleasant person.

[Master Guns]

Please quote my bad advice

[Sephiroso]

A Wild Casual appears!!!


I've been playing rogue for 11 years. Raiding since it was possible to raid. /flex. I'm an elitist jerk that used to compete against Elitist Jerks (/shakes fist@Rubberducky)

It's possible to casually raid where your crap dps and/or crap dps spec will not lose you your raid spot, then by all means, play what you want with a don't care attitude, be the one to hold your friends back. (Yes, dps isnt the only way to measure performance)

But if you're like me, and you have to compete for your raid spot in a large group(we have a 35man roster atm) then you better play the top dps spec, even if in the future it gets nerfed. That's called being a contributing member of a raid group.

This seems familiar though, i think i've had to explain this before to this person

What exactly are you explaining? If you've been raiding for 11 years then why are you whining about a nerf? You should have known it was coming. So why bother complaining about it?

[Lesane]

What exactly are you explaining? If you've been raiding for 11 years then why are you whining about a nerf? You should have known it was coming. So why bother complaining about it?

Because now more than ever a spec being nerfed is a big deal for pure DPS classes as we need to level and maintain 3 DPS artifacts while hybrid classes only need to level 1-2 max.

[elfporn]

Because now more than ever a spec being nerfed is a big deal for pure DPS classes as we need to level and maintain 3 DPS artifacts while hybrid classes only need to level 1-2 max.

Pretty much this.

- - - Updated - - -

Please quote my bad advice

i already did. And it's not the first time.

[Master Guns]

i already did. And it's not the first time.

Lol, no, you didn't, you just quoted an opinion you happen to vehemently disagree with and refuse to see other peoples points of view. But alright.

I, on the other hand, have never said "ignore sims", I have just said it's not gospel, and to take it with stride, because they don't represent real world scenarios at all and because real world scenarios are a much better judge of how your class plays. This comes from raiding since MC in 2005, all the way through heroic EN in the present. But I'm sure you'll find a way to disagree and argue about this too.

[elfporn]

Lol, no, you didn't, you just quoted an opinion you happen to vehemently disagree with and refuse to see other peoples points of view. But alright.

I, on the other hand, have never said "ignore sims", I have just said it's not gospel, and to take it with stride, because they don't represent real world scenarios at all and because real world scenarios are a much better judge of how your class plays. This comes from raiding since MC in 2005, all the way through heroic EN in the present. But I'm sure you'll find a way to disagree and argue about this too.

Yes i disagree.

Sims have done a good job of representing real-world scenarios. The sims have predicted what has been reflected in logs - barring the exploits like ass rogues using exsang and agonizing poison at the same time, and the ilgynoth exploits, and a few others.

Your feelscraft has never been the right way to do things, going all the way back to MC (did you play sub for raiding when combat daggers was top?)

You have the right to do what you want, to distrust sims, despite evidence, but don't spread your faulty advice for people to ignore sims and play what "feels" like the best.

And if you're unable to perform close to your simmed average, asking for help here, by providing logs, is a good way to get assistance with your rotation.

[Master Guns]

I perform within 98% of my simmed average, depending on the encounter. I do sim, after all. But..nice try? Lol

You're continually spouting misquotes and saying I said things that I never did. I can't tell if you are trolling, or literally cannot comprehend what I'm saying. It's a toss up.

[elfporn]

I perform within 98% of my simmed average, depending on the encounter. I do sim, after all. But..nice try? Lol

Good for you. This has nothing to do with anything i've said, not once have i attacked your personal performance, except to say that you shouldn't be topping dps in a raid environment.

You're continually spouting misquotes and saying I said things that I never did. I can't tell if you are trolling, or lierally cannot comprehend what I'm saying. It's a toss up.

I never misquoted you, or misunderstood. Perhaps you cannot comprehend.

You are advocating people to "play whats feels best" while i am telling you that is bad advice, and then explaining why it is bad advice. You have done this before in other threads.