No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Deleted]

Fuck flying. Ruins more than it helps.

How ?

Adding random crap in as a post has to be 10 characters.

[Zajras]

I suppose they add it just later expansion, when there's no more to explore.

[Ordinator]

I suppose they add it just later expansion, when there's no more to explore.

You need flying to explore?

[Mafic]

As I don't believe Pathfinder 2 will reward flying to begin with (I expect at least a Pathfinder 3 or 4), they COULD possibly sneak in the part 2 achieve even now, but it's definitely getting late. I don't expect a lot of testing will be needed however, as Draenor was started with the premise of no flying ever, and then it was added in later. All the invisible walls and visual tricks they put in previously had to be redone.. this isn't an issue with the broken isles. Flying is already perfectly workable for all those hacking people I see jumping on their mounts and flying around in Stormheim.

Fly hacking is possible in battlegrounds even though flying isn't available. Fly hacking of WoD and Legion in both betas has occurred before, so that does not constitute as flying though.

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Nice post, saved some memories from them times.


large version: http://www.zalamander.se/flying.jpg

Nice pictures and only reinforces what we have known all along about flying being a net positive to community, personal player freedom and also replay value to put the world in warcraft. Thank you for sharing.

[Idoru]

So it would appear they don't need to test. According to Blizz, they already have the design in place and will offer plenty of notice for when to expect it. Looks like 7.2 is more likely at this point:

There ya go Fliers... dispute that.

And you wonder why you get called arrogant and ignorant.

We KNOW they "have a solid plan".
We KNOW that flying is coming ... At some point.

The reason we keep arguing is that we think the plan sucks, and that 7.2 is way too late.

But of course, anyone who doesn't agree with you is just (in words you have actually used) moaning and complaining...

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The reason we keep arguing is that we think the plan sucks, and that 7.2 is way too late..

What exactly is the point though. I mean I think we know where most everyone stands. I have my doubts at this point in devolopment suddenly flying is going to be released next week in a hotfix for example. I mean 7.1 is already on the PTR so it coming then is HIGHLY unlikely due to the fact its already a playable / working copy and not part of the orginal plan. So 7.2 just seems like the reality of the situation. Like or dislike that at this point it just feels like its over, final, and complete. Not because of public opinion but because it feels like it was the orginal plan, enough time has passed to make moving it up unlikely (7.1 around the corner and a BlizzCon in there as well between), and sure they will want to test anything to make sure it works well enough to live. For some reason that last one matters a lot to people too but I test drive a car even though it was designed and built to drive from the start, I mean, shit can go wrong with even the best design and intention. So really.. whats the point again?

[Idoru]

What exactly is the point though.

To let them know we are (still) not happy?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

To let them know we are (still) not happy?

Right, and I think we and everyone gets it.

Hey Blizzard.. they still aren't happy and won't be happy until flying comes in.

See that pretty much handles it forever. To be honest at this point since they can't do much about it they likely don't give a single fuck anyway. In WoD sure after most the expansion passed and the endless bitching got them to put it in more than likely. But it is kinda a different story now. They have a plan to put it in. The road map is in. People are progressing the map already. Your unhappiness isn't modifying the situation, but sure if yelling at the wall makes you feel better there it is I suppose.

I mean I fucking hate onions but my wife likes them. She cooks so I get to pick them out and eat food with their flavor all over it. For years she didn't put them in the food for me, but eventually she just said fuck making two dishes and I got to deal with it. But she is good enough to keep around so I don't scorch her on Facebook and then plan for the divorce once things changed with the onions and I pay her rent, bills, and hell even pay for the food/onions. She knows I hate that shit but fuck that's life. It doesn't always go your way. If things were different and this was enough for me to say fuck it and leave I would just be done and bounce. I wouldn't be blasting her onioning of food all over the internet because it wouldn't change shit and it makes me the asshole. I know this isn't a 100% perfect analogy and since its the internet that means it holds absolutely no value unless it supports your cause but that is how I see it.

[Mafic]

And you wonder why you get called arrogant and ignorant.

We KNOW they "have a solid plan".
We KNOW that flying is coming ... At some point.

The reason we keep arguing is that we think the plan sucks, and that 7.2 is way too late.

But of course, anyone who doesn't agree with you is just (in words you have actually used) moaning and complaining...

I know they don't have a solid plan because if they did they would have told us. I am just watching this slow motion train wreck happen again LOL!

Flying is coming, but under what pretenses and high opportunity cost? Blizzard will introduce flying in Legion but it is going to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth when the dust settles. Like I said get ready for round 2 for the flight in Legion.

The plan does suck from anyone using objective observation based on how it transpired in WoD and how it is cascading into another dumpster fire in Legion. This is why I did not anticipate so many flying threads so early in the Legion forums lately. The truth is that players are not going to fall for the same trick twice.

Flying makes the world in warcraft relevant and modern when compared to other MMORPGs. Removing it shows how dulls, antiquated and boring the game world is despite gimmicks like flight whistle, NPC scaling and maze like designs like Suramar.

Flying is undeniably too important to WoW and the devs still haven't learned this lesson along with some players. And that is the truth in this matter.

[Ordinator]

I know they don't have a solid plan because if they did they would have told us.

Absolutely no. Pro fliers most likely lost their privilege of development insight the last time they cried about being lied to and broken promises and all that bull shit.

Flying is undeniably too important to WoW and the devs still haven't learned this lesson along with some players. And that is the truth in this matter.

It's crazy how you're on a whole deeper level of knowledge about this game than the devs and other players.

[Idoru]

Right, and I think we and everyone gets it.

Hey Blizzard.. they still aren't happy and won't be happy until flying comes in.

See that pretty much handles it forever.

Wrong.
If we stay quiet, they will take it as a sign of acceptance.

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Absolutely no. Pro fliers most likely lost their privilege of development insight the last time they cried about being lied to and broken promises and all that bull shit.

Because they absolutely didn't promise us flying in the first major patch of WoD.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Wrong.
If we stay quiet, they will take it as a sign of acceptance.

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Because they absolutely didn't promise us flying in the first major patch of WoD.

Ok well.. I am glad your sign says no acceptance! See flight in 7.2. I hope your resistance manages to make you feel better. Becuase for me, honestly, I will be rolling on the floor laughing.

Now back to the game! I got characters to play.

[TyrianFC]

Absolutely no. Pro fliers most likely lost their privilege of development insight the last time they cried about being lied to and broken promises and all that bull shit..

With the success and reaction of legion so far, I suspect Blizzard (internally) has already pushed back flying till a later-than-planned patch.

Mafic and the rest of the archtrolls seemed to have already pre-pinned 7.2 as the magic number 'mid expansion patch' - and i'm ready for the ensuring /popcorn that will eventuate when they find out that won't be the patch to deliver flight.

[Symphonic]

I prefer the achievement way to access flying, instead of a gold cost, but it should be available on launch. Even though people won't get the achievement for a month or two. I got exalted with nightfallen a couple weeks ago but didn't hit revered with everyone else until a week ago.

[-Joker-]

And you wonder why you get called arrogant and ignorant.

We KNOW they "have a solid plan".
We KNOW that flying is coming ... At some point.

The reason we keep arguing is that we think the plan sucks, and that 7.2 is way too late.

But of course, anyone who doesn't agree with you is just (in words you have actually used) moaning and complaining...

There is a difference between arrogance and confidence. At that moment I was tired of being attacked by a bunch of dragon riders with tunnel vision. So admittedly, I handled the phrasing a bit more poorly than I could have. Then again, I am unlikely to see anyone else in this thread admit when they are wrong, so at least I have that in my favor.

The plan is theirs, suck or not. 7.2 seems to be their target. As for moaning and complaining, those are directed at the individuals who have to make the same circular argument over and over and still fail to offer anything constructive other than "Blizz sucks, they're greedy, and they'll pay when 10M players unsub with lack of flight. The same poster claimed Alex A would be fired after the WoD fiasco. Guess who still works for Blizz and got a bigger team to manage?

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Wrong.
If we stay quiet, they will take it as a sign of acceptance.

You can be vocal, but it should be constructive, not repetitive, and not insulting to their team. Most of the "feedback" in this thread has been similar to the level of "feedback" from the other thread. If they are looking here, it is likely for comic relief from their own forums.

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Right, and I think we and everyone gets it.

Hey Blizzard.. they still aren't happy and won't be happy until flying comes in.

See that pretty much handles it forever.

This is the whole point right here. They came, they gave feedback, they never left. And now, no matter which side of the aisle we are on, unless we are in complete agreement with them and humming their songs of flight oppression, we're just not intended to be here. I keep wondering when they will learn the "Show up, offer feedback, stay unsubbed til 7.2" lesson.

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Because they absolutely didn't promise us flying in the first major patch of WoD.

There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

- SOURCE

[Mafic]

Wrong.
If we stay quiet, they will take it as a sign of acceptance.

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Because they absolutely didn't promise us flying in the first major patch of WoD.

I agree 100%.

Silence and apathy is what led to the large presumpton on Blizzard behalf that they could push flying over to a late date in WoD and then eventually outright removal for WoD and future expansion. We as customers must voice feedback that is:

1. Consistent

This is the most important feedback that is relevant and germaine to any feedback in customer service satisfaction feedbacks, surveys, and questionaires. If there is a repeated and constant concerns a customer brings up whether they are a future, potential, current or previous customer than it is worth investigating. Due dillegence for a multi billion dollar company or even a small company is the common thread with any business. Failure to improve, listen to feedback, and isolate into ivory tower bubbles aka twitter leads to what we had with WoD - a massive dumpster fire.

2. Relevant

The feedback on flying has been relevant form a subjective and objective point of view. The fun aspect of flying is mostly subjective, but even that has elements of objectivity if you examine the time savings of flying to reach other fun aspects of WoW's world than finding fun flying by itself.

Objectively Blizzard has tried to use gimmicks and tweaks to make flying not much of a need in WoD but that failed. In Legion they have failed as well and with 7.1 they are waving the white flag of defeat as they make more changes with flight whistle for alts. At this pacing Blizzard will be forced to make two choices: Double down on trying to make the square peg gimmicks of flying imitators fit into circular holes or bring back flying sooner than what they have "planned".

[Ordinator]

I agree 100%.

Silence and apathy is what led to the large presumpton on Blizzard behalf that they could push flying over to a late date in WoD and then eventually outright removal for WoD and future expansion. We as customers must voice feedback that is:

1. Consistent

This is the most important feedback that is relevant and germaine to any feedback in customer service satisfaction feedbacks, surveys, and questionaires. If there is a repeated and constant concerns a customer brings up whether they are a future, potential, current or previous customer than it is worth investigating. Due dillegence for a multi billion dollar company or even a small company is the common thread with any business. Failure to improve, listen to feedback, and isolate into ivory tower bubbles aka twitter leads to what we had with WoD - a massive dumpster fire.

2. Relevant

The feedback on flying has been relevant form a subjective and objective point of view. The fun aspect of flying is mostly subjective, but even that has elements of objectivity if you examine the time savings of flying to reach other fun aspects of WoW's world than finding fun flying by itself.

Objectively Blizzard has tried to use gimmicks and tweaks to make flying not much of a need in WoD but that failed. In Legion they have failed as well and with 7.1 they are waving the white flag of defeat as they make more changes with flight whistle for alts. At this pacing Blizzard will be forced to make two choices: Double down on trying to make the square peg gimmicks of flying imitators fit into circular holes or bring back flying sooner than what they have "planned".

Well you've nailed one type of feedback you've listed. The problem is you're wrong as usual. 5 people giving "consistent" feedback doesn't mean there is a problem to address. You're literally describing what is known as the "vocal minority"

[Mafic]

I prefer the achievement way to access flying, instead of a gold cost, but it should be available on launch. Even though people won't get the achievement for a month or two. I got exalted with nightfallen a couple weeks ago but didn't hit revered with everyone else until a week ago.

The problem is Blizzard thinks that:

1. Delaying the reward of flying.
2. Splitting it up into parts

Is all a good idea.

But that is not what players compromised in WoD.

The compromise in WoD was straight up one giant achievement and then a known date for flying to return or a known patch number. Right now there is a recipe for a disaster like WoD but in a different way and one that will cause even more lasting damage.

Mid expansion can be interpreted to mean different things to different people including devs. To Holinka mid expansion means 2 PVP seasons while to PVE devs it may mean 3 raid tiers.

[bufferunderrun]

Well you've nailed one type of feedback you've listed. The problem is you're wrong as usual. 5 people giving "consistent" feedback doesn't mean there is a problem to address. You're literally describing what is known as the "vocal minority"

and it's a vocal minority because ordinator know the data, know what kind of feedback blizzard take from the quit feedback etc. Blizzard through maintain it's stance on flying is still keeping an eye on all the feedback i wonder why if there are only 5 peoples beating this horse?

You don't like flying and keep attacking everyone who say otherwise, i'm just happy this don't work and this topic continue to be in mmo-c front page everyday i'm also extremely happy flying thread have begun to resurface on the us forum, yes they get flooded by the usual amount of trolls but still some at last try to keep the topic hot.

[-Joker-]

Well you've nailed one type of feedback you've listed. The problem is you're wrong as usual. 5 people giving "consistent" feedback doesn't mean there is a problem to address. You're literally describing what is known as the "vocal minority"

Agreed. If 5 people were helping out in offering feedback with another 800, or even 8,000 players, I could see the need for their presence. But it is unlikely we will ever see this:

Thanks to the 5 non-subbed, non-purchasing posters on a 3rd party fan site, we are retracting our previous thoughts about flight and will have it at the start of every expac moving forward.

*The above quotation was a parody and should not be mistaken as actual communication regarding flight from Blizz. All official communication will be offered through the Blue Tracker and changes in position will be a result of POSITIVE and ENGAGING feedback on the official forums from players who have purchased Legion and who are no longer enjoying the game without flight.*

As it stands, the same 5 people keep giving the same hate-filled consensus about Blizzard's failures and shortcomings, and the inevitable apocalypse that awaits them should they wait too long to unlock flight on the Broken Isles.