Artifacts feel like a step back in terms of limitations...

[giniyo]

Easy respecs? Not so much anymore..
Dual specs or even more? Not at the same potential and if so, you basically know everyone else with the same spec is most likely 5+ points ahead of you.

The thing that knowledge level isnt accountwide and your artifact exp is not even shared across all spec's weapons really bothers me.

It feels downright annoying, not like a "cool thing" you look forward to "do" because youre not actually doing anything but suck it up and wait for knowledge level and then "do" the usual things.

Also, simply respeccing because talents changed/something got nerfed? Hell nah.

What happened to freedom of respeccing around and preparing for different situations?

I feel like it should stop at a certain point and be like the plain damage etc. increase you get at the end but much earlier so you have your necessary stuff. I say necessary because the game now is obviously balanced around these traits.

Not to mention you cant even freely adjust your relics, theyre gone into the abyss every time.

[Super Kami Dende]

Oh look, it's this thread again.

Pro-tip#1: Blizzard said all content is Balanced before artifact traits are taken into consideration.
Pro-tip#2: You can easily have 13 traits in all weapons of all specs.
Pro-tip#3: Like every other expansion, to have an offspec you need to work on it, now that all gear except weapon or trinkets is useful between all specs, it is easier now to hold multiple specs than it was previous to WoD.
Pro-tip#4: Don't be lazy and these "issues" won't affect you.

[Cracked]

This is not really an issue. Can your offspec heal as well as a main healer? No, but after about 19 points, the differences are likely to be marginal.

Also, this will disappear soon enough. When you get AK 25, if you go full ham, getting 54/54 in artifact takes only about 8-10 days.

[giniyo]

Oh look, it's this thread again.

Pro-tip#1: Blizzard said all content is Balanced before artifact traits are taken into consideration.
Pro-tip#2: You can easily have 13 traits in all weapons of all specs.
Pro-tip#3: Like every other expansion, to have an offspec you need to work on it, now that all gear except weapon or trinkets is useful between all specs, it is easier now to hold multiple specs than it was previous to WoD.
Pro-tip#4: Don't be lazy and these "issues" won't affect you.

"dont be lazy" aka wait weeks until you can actually enjoy/compete with another spec or toon.. what ?

- - - Updated - - -

This is not really an issue. Can your offspec heal as well as a main healer? No, but after about 19 points, the differences are likely to be marginal.

Also, this will disappear soon enough. When you get AK 25, if you go full ham, getting 54/54 in artifact takes only about 8-10 days.

i guess thats right but thats still a long time

[Super Kami Dende]

"dont be lazy" aka wait weeks until you can actually enjoy/compete with another spec or toon.. what ?

Took me 2 weeks from 100-heroic raiding with my alt. People need to stop being so melodramatic.

[Alvito]

Oh look, it's this thread again.

Pro-tip#1: Blizzard said all content is Balanced before artifact traits are taken into consideration.
Pro-tip#2: You can easily have 13 traits in all weapons of all specs.
Pro-tip#3: Like every other expansion, to have an offspec you need to work on it, now that all gear except weapon or trinkets is useful between all specs, it is easier now to hold multiple specs than it was previous to WoD.
Pro-tip#4: Don't be lazy and these "issues" won't affect you.

1 is clearly not the case, if you think so you haven't played the game.
2 you can, at the cost of slowing down your main weapon only to make your off spec weapon a poor choice instead of a awful choice.
3 While you did have to work on your off spec before, now it is not to your benefit at all to do so since it just slows your character down only to have a shitty 2nd opton.
4 Poor design has nothing to do with being lazy or not.

[Super Kami Dende]

1 is clearly not the case, if you think so you haven't played the game.
2 you can, at the cost of slowing down your main weapon only to make your off spec weapon a poor choice instead of a awful choice.
3 While you did have to work on your off spec before, now it is not to your benefit at all to do so since it just slows your character down only to have a shitty 2nd opton.
4 Poor design has nothing to do with being lazy or not.

All your points are literally "I'm too lazy".

[Deleted]

The artifact power needed from level 1-16 is equivalent with the AP needed from 16-17. So leveling all your weapons to 16 (which is enough to start with) should go really quick with current AK level

[Sierra85]

i think its OK to be difficult at the start of the new content and it will get progressively easier the longer the content is out.

that's fine.

[Deleted]

All of my specs have similar gear and ap (19-24). IMO it is far easier to gear secondary specs at lessy much easier than before.

[orangeaccord311]

The artifact power needed from level 1-16 is equivalent with the AP needed from 16-17. So leveling all your weapons to 16 (which is enough to start with) should go really quick with current AK level

What? It's not even close to being the same. 1-16 is 33.4k artifact power. You could go from 16-17 for a fraction of that at only 14.4k. In fact you could get 2 more points in a main spec for less than you could put 16 in the offspec weapon. With that said a few months of AK grind will pretty much eliminate any "wrong" choices you made in the beginning. The first 34 points in a weapon are a joke. You will easily be able to fill 3 weapons out in 6 months. The much larger problem comes after that, when you absolutely HAVE to correctly choose a spec for points 35-54.

[Grishnaar]

Took me 2 weeks from 100-heroic raiding with my alt. People need to stop being so melodramatic.

Problem is, a lot of players look at "2 weeks" as "jfc, 2 weeks, 14 fckin days, that's 2 weekends, even today's lunch is far, I can't wait that long, RAAGEE" >_>

[fengosa]

"dont be lazy" aka wait weeks until you can actually enjoy/compete with another spec or toon.. what ?

- - - Updated - - -



i guess thats right but thats still a long time

You are really overestimating how beneficially AP is. Gear and skill are a much bigger factor in your throughput than AP. A player with 24 AP will have an advantage over one with 19 AP but it's likely only 2-3% and even then may depend on the specific fight.

[Egregious]

All your points are literally "I'm too lazy".

No. Don't be foolish. It's a terrible system.

- - - Updated - - -

You are really overestimating how beneficially AP is. Gear and skill are a much bigger factor in your throughput than AP. A player with 24 AP will have an advantage over one with 19 AP but it's likely only 2-3% and even then may depend on the specific fight.

2 to 3%, stated as if people would select in an unbiased fashion between the two. 100% is obviously greater than 97%. Both are still "A's" but, let's be real, the difference between 90 and 100% is nigh-and-day. The difference between 97 and 100% is relevant in any regional guild above the rank of 100.

It's not that the AK and AP are the breaking points. It is that they're a further imposition on player's time on top of the innumerable ways in which Legion is a time-sink, and alt and off-spec unfriendly in egregious ways. This coming from a person who despises casualization.

[Tradu]

Oh look, it's this thread again.

Pro-tip#1: Blizzard said all content is Balanced before artifact traits are taken into consideration.
Pro-tip#2: You can easily have 13 traits in all weapons of all specs.
Pro-tip#3: Like every other expansion, to have an offspec you need to work on it, now that all gear except weapon or trinkets is useful between all specs, it is easier now to hold multiple specs than it was previous to WoD.
Pro-tip#4: Don't be lazy and these "issues" won't affect you.

No, they haven't. That would be absolutely insane, because then no content in the game would be even remotely challenging.

[Samin]

2 you can, at the cost of slowing down your main weapon only to make your off spec weapon a poor choice instead of a awful choice.

The first 13 levels literally cost as much as level 14. You delay your main weapon at most by 1 level to get another artifact to a decent level. And there's another similar break point later but I don't remember what level exactly.

[Musta Kyy]

How exactly was this a step back?

Back in WoD after you changed spec you had to get a new weapon, necklace, cloak, rings and trinkets first.

Now you change spec for the first time and you probably already have the relics for the offspec weapon considering world quests drop them for all of your specs, next up you have to get some artifact power, getting first 13 traits takes you about 30minutes of doing world quests, this is assuming you have knowledge level around 5-8.
After this if you focus a bit on your offspec, like few days, you'll have it few traits behind your mainspec weapon.
Faster than ever, easier than ever.

In previous expansions if you were a heroic or mythic raider it would take you weeks getting your offspec viable for raids.

I agree that knowledge level should have some account wide effect, maybe 25% of your best character.

[Deleted]

i guess thats right but thats still a long time

Its only a long time when you're part of the entitled 'I want everything now and then complain there is nothing to do' crowd

[Deleted]

Oh look, it's this thread again.

Pro-tip#1: Blizzard said all content is Balanced before artifact traits are taken into consideration.
Pro-tip#2: You can easily have 13 traits in all weapons of all specs.
Pro-tip#3: Like every other expansion, to have an offspec you need to work on it, now that all gear except weapon or trinkets is useful between all specs, it is easier now to hold multiple specs than it was previous to WoD.
Pro-tip#4: Don't be lazy and these "issues" won't affect you.

1. maybe for now. in 6 months everybody will have 34 points in their artifact, in 9 months there will be a super easy catch up mechanic to get to 34 for new alts. just having 34 points in your artifact gives most people a 34% passive damage buff, thats before what the traits actually do. nighthold and beyond will have to be balanced with that in mind.

2. yeah but like saying you can easily have 780 ilvl. people will expect more. i'm surprised there are no addon that report ilvl + artifact ranks yet.

3. in the future with higher artifact knowledge maybe, right now putting more then ~20 traits in one spec means you will start getting significant delays in getting 34 traits on your main spec.

4. even the most hardcore people will take 3 months to max out 1 spec to 34, let alone 54. then i guess its about 1 month per spec after that.

[assman]

How exactly was this a step back?

Back in WoD after you changed spec you had to get a new weapon, necklace, cloak, rings and trinkets first.

Now you change spec for the first time and you probably already have the relics for the offspec weapon considering world quests drop them for all of your specs, next up you have to get some artifact power, getting first 13 traits takes you about 30minutes of doing world quests, this is assuming you have knowledge level around 5-8.
After this if you focus a bit on your offspec, like few days, you'll have it few traits behind your mainspec weapon.
Faster than ever, easier than ever.

In previous expansions if you were a heroic or mythic raider it would take you weeks getting your offspec viable for raids.

I agree that knowledge level should have some account wide effect, maybe 25% of your best character.

you forget the part where your mainspec is behind of everyone else because you're spending your ap on your offspec