Crit vs vers for Havoc ?

[Iry]

Don't like Fel Rush/Veng Retreat spam? Change to Rogue.

Its a talent. It's literally NOT supposed to be the only choice.
Nemesis is too vulnerable to boss mechanics right now.

[Dieselol]

What kind of a shit show is this class, where our primary stat priority is becoming Versa? I love playing DH but this is getting absurd. Crit and Versa gear is going to be so hard to come by.

It's best for Outlaw rogues too, so calm down.

[Littlepwny]

Its a talent. It's literally NOT supposed to be the only choice.
Nemesis is too vulnerable to boss mechanics right now.

You still need to Fel Rush regardless of momentum. You should be asking for nemesis buffs, not destroy what makes a DH, a DH.

[Deleted]

Its a talent. It's literally NOT supposed to be the only choice.
Nemesis is too vulnerable to boss mechanics right now.

Momentum is the theoreticaly better choice because it actually takes some skill to use. Nemesis is worse but requires nothing but a button press every 2 minutes. Nemesis should not and never will be better than Momentum for that reason.

Momentum = good players, min/maxers rewarded with the best possible DPS results
Nemesis = Players that are unwilling or unable to use Momentum and pay a small price in efficiency (~3-4%)

That's actually good design.

[Algoma0]

Momentum is the theoreticaly better choice because it actually takes some skill to use. Nemesis is worse but requires nothing but a button press every 2 minutes. Nemesis should not and never will be better than Momentum for that reason.

Momentum = good players, min/maxers rewarded with the best possible DPS results
Nemesis = Players that are unwilling or unable to use Momentum and pay a small price in efficiency (~3-4%)

That's actually good design.

I agree that it's good design. That doesn't mean it won't change in the future. There have been numerous occasions where a talent that's harder to use was getting nerfed, making an easier talent the optimal choice.

[Accendor]

Vengeful Retreat being a Momentum Trigger feels stupid, especially when doing 24/7 Mythic+ with Boss Hitboxes like Players (Archway, Court of Stars.). Jumping away to get more damage? C'mon, we are not pussys. Thx wall for giving me the opportunity to jump and rush into, time for nosebleeds.

You know that you can just simply use Fel Barrage and GT in case you have to walk back to the boss?
Also jumping away to to more damage makes perfect sense: You are basically repositioning yourself, looking for weakpoints in the enemies defense.
While I agree with some of the points you make (e.g. raise Momentum window by 1-2 seconds but decrease its power to make up for that, Eyebeam doing not enough damage...), this is not one of them.

[Deix-EU]

Its a talent. It's literally NOT supposed to be the only choice.
Nemesis is too vulnerable to boss mechanics right now.

Wrong. I mean, yes, it can but do you see other classes having TWO best talents ? Nope. There is and will only be one best. You accept or you gimp your DPS as with many DH I see with same ilvl but with felblade/fel eruption builds 60k less than mine.

[Narzok]

...many DH I see with same ilvl but with felblade/fel eruption builds 60k less than mine.

60k is no longer about wrong or right build. And if it is, then it should be changed. Assuming a ST DPS around 300k (for math's sake) that would be ~20% dps loss due to talents.

[Deix-EU]

60k is no longer about wrong or right build. And if it is, then it should be changed. Assuming a ST DPS around 300k (for math's sake) that would be ~20% dps loss due to talents.

As it's the case with other classes. Ask paladins whether they can switch talents, for example. I agree however it's not the best way to do it, simply that it's mainly state of art since generations. Useless talents left in stone.

[Kithelle]

It's a tough balancing act since Eye beam and Fel Rush are aoe attacks. If Eye beam really became stronger than bloodlet on single target, imagine how insane it would be on a 2+ target fight.

But bloodlet is a 10 second...2 use possible ability vs eye beam being a rooting 45 second cooldown ability. What would be so wrong with eye beam being more powerful if it has a long cooldown balancing it out?

[Narzok]

But bloodlet is a 10 second...2 use possible ability vs eye beam being a rooting 45 second cooldown ability. What would be so wrong with eye beam being more powerful if it has a long cooldown balancing it out?

have to agree here. Take Touch of death, that thing does the Monk's HP in dmg, so around 1.7-1.9m in current gear.
So if there are high dmg ST skill with long CD, why not do high Aoe Dmg on long CD.
Cataclysm for locks was 1 huge hit on a 60sec CD

[Jaese]

have to agree here. Take Touch of death, that thing does the Monk's HP in dmg, so around 1.7-1.9m in current gear.
So if there are high dmg ST skill with long CD, why not do high Aoe Dmg on long CD.
Cataclysm for locks was 1 huge hit on a 60sec CD

ToD does half HP. They still have yet to fix the tooltip. But I do agree Eye Beam should have more use/priority.