Brexit: May to trigger Article 50 by March 2017

[Deleted]

I can't take you seriously.

You should.

Cameron was elected democratically (despite obvious flaws in FPTP system - GG for pointing that out)

I said more democratically, not undemocratic.

If you're holding the election of Juncker - EPP select candidate (no input from electorate)

So?

, European Parliament elect candidate (no input from electorate)

No i voted for the EPP, and as the leader of the largest block in the EUP he gets to be the head honcho.
That's very democratic.

- as a shining example of democracy in action, I laugh in your face

Head of the largest block, in a free and fair (and not with a shitty system like in the UK).
It's very democratic.

Had Juncker et al not pursued their single-minded, minority, we-know-what's-best-for-you, federalist agenda none of this would have happened.

The referendum shit made it into the conservative election promises almost a decade ago.

They're all a bunch of fuckers. But I'd rather have a fucker on my doorstep I can get to with a pitchfork, than a fucker in Brussels I have to spend 3 hours vomiting on the Eurostar to get to.

See i don't have a problem with the EU.

[Nigel Tufnel]

No i voted for the EPP, and as the leader of the largest block in the EUP he gets to be the head honcho. That's very democratic.

Que? Is the EUP a Mexican drug cartel? He gets to be "head honcho" because he's leader of the largest block? You're kidding? You expect to be taken seriously when you criticise democratic process in the UK and at the same time fail completely to acknowledge the glaring inadequacies in the way the EC elects its leader? Your definition "head honcho" sums it up.

[Shadowmelded]

Que? Is the EUP a Mexican drug cartel? He gets to be "head honcho" because he's leader of the largest block? You're kidding? You expect to be taken seriously when you criticise democratic process in the UK and at the same time fail completely to acknowledge the glaring inadequacies in the way the EC elects its leader? Your definition "head honcho" sums it up.

Kind of like how the leader of the largest Parliamentary party gets to be PM?

[ranzino]

Kind of like how the leader of the largest Parliamentary party gets to be PM?

Same with the Chancellor of Germany. No direct election, but everybody knows: votes for her party = Merkel becomes chancellor

[Nigel Tufnel]

Kind of like how the leader of the largest Parliamentary party gets to be PM?

No - because that's implying e.g., Miliband vs Cameron as a competition between the two leaders had no significance in determining the outcome of the general election. Whereas, of course, a proportion of the electorate voted for Cameron because they didn't want Miliband as PM, regardless of party politics. Don't get your point. The reason Labour failed to gain power in 1992 had nothing to do with the Sun slating Kinnock? You think Corbyn vs May in 2020 will be decided by their policies alone? Right.

[Shadowmelded]

No - because that's implying e.g., Miliband vs Cameron as a competition between the two leaders had no significance in determining the outcome of the general election. Whereas, of course, a proportion of the electorate voted for Cameron because they didn't want Miliband as PM, regardless of party politics. Don't get your point. The reason Labour failed to gain power in 1992 had nothing to do with the Sun slating Kinnock? You think Corbyn vs May in 2020 will be decided by their policies alone? Right.

So your criticisms of the EU's electoral process is the ignorance of the populace who don't bother to find out who the leaders of the Parties are? Or lack of press coverage?

[Nigel Tufnel]

So your criticisms of the EU's electoral process is the ignorance of the populace who don't bother to find out who the leaders of the Parties are? Or lack of press coverage?

That's bollocks and you know it. The president of the EC is elected with absolutely zero deferment to the electorate. GoblinP was holding up the process as being more "democratic" than the way the UK elects its leader. Why are you arguing? Just acknowledge the weaknesses of both processes and have done with it.

[Shadowmelded]

That's bollocks and you know it. The president of the EC is elected with absolutely zero deferment to the electorate. GoblinP was holding up the process as being more "democratic" than the way the UK elects its leader. Why are you arguing? Just acknowledge the weaknesses of both processes and have done with it.

You're talking past each other then. Goblin was talking about the EUP, you're talking about the EC.

Edit: I now realize I mistakenly thought the EC referred to was the European Council and not the European Commission. Anyway I'm not interested in which is more democratic, I just disagree that the EU or the Commission President's election is somehow undemocratic. It's representative democracy, not direct democracy.

[Deleted]

Kind of like how the leader of the largest Parliamentary party gets to be PM?

I wasn't aware that the UK was a narco state.

- - - Updated - - -

You're talking past each other then. Goblin was talking about the EUP, you're talking about the EC.

Well actually the EUP has to approve the EC president.
And the EC president, while he must also acquire a qualified majority of the votes from the council, is picked by the council based by the European parliamentary elections.

"Taking into account the elections to the European Parliament and after having held the appropriate consultations, the European Council, acting by a qualified majority, shall propose to the European Parliament a candidate for President of the Commission."

- In practice this means that the European council was obliged to pick Juncker (as he was the head of the largest parliamentary block).

[Shadowmelded]

Well actually the EUP has to approve the EC president.
And the EC president, while he must also acquire a qualified majority of the votes from the council, is picked by the council based by the European parliamentary elections.
- In practice this means that the European council was obliged to pick Juncker (as he was the head of the largest parliamentary block).

I'm pretty sure the President of the Council is appointed by the council itself and that the President of the European Commission (the one who has all the power anyway and is more like a head of state) is nominated by the Council and approved by the Parliament. The President of the Council (Tusk) is basically just a glorified civil servant anyway, chairing meetings and giving press briefings.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure the President of the Council is appointed by the council itself and that the President of the European Commission (the one who has all the power anyway and is more like a head of state) is nominated by the Council and approved by the Parliament. The President of the Council (Tusk) is basically just a glorified civil servant anyway, chairing meetings and giving press briefings.

yes.
But that's what i said.
By EC president, i meant President of the European commission.

[Shadowmelded]

yes.
But that's what i said.
By EC president, i meant President of the European commission.

Ahhh my bad then. Stupid EU and their initialisms may make me a brexiteer yet!

[caervek]

Ahhh my bad then. Stupid EU and their initialisms may make me a brexiteer yet!

Just make sure you don't confuse the EC with the EC, because the EEC was renamed the EC by the EC after it created the EU back in '92, however the EC was dissolved by the EC in '09.

[Deleted]

Ahhh my bad then. Stupid EU and their initialisms may make me a brexiteer yet!

yeah.
Dont everyone know that European Council is different from Council of Europe
Don't everyone know that?

[Deleted]

Dont everyone know that European Council is different from Council of Europe
Don't everyone know that?

This reminded me of The People's Front of Judea!

[Mayhem]

This reminded me of The People's Front of Judea!

I think they had that in mind when creating this mess.

[Deleted]

Jimmy Krankie is set to propose a bid for a new scottish referendum on the back of brexit and the BBC is up to it's tricks again.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/bageh...10/canny-bluff