Question about moonwells

[sizzle01]

I have a question about moonwells that i have been searching for the answer and cant seem to find it. from what i read moon wells are made from the waters from the well of eternity and have some kind of arcane energy. after the war of the ancients when illidan made a new well in mt hyjal they imprisoned him for years for doing so and arcane magic was taboo among the night elf society. So my question is why where these moonwells built if they had the wells water in them or are they made with something else?

[SansCoeur]

I'm not sure where all you have looked but according to wowpedia they are a purified/holy version of the Well of Eternity. Where it was just made by pouring the waters into the lake, Moonwells are made using some waters from a previously purified pool after gaining the blessings of the surrounding wildlife/nature. http://wow.gamepedia.com/Moonwell

[Gurluas]

Also Chronicles redefined the extent as to how Arcane was outlawed. Using Arcane magic was outlawed, Arcane itself isn't. Nobody would arrest you for having a Mana gem.

[Combatbutler]

I have a question about moonwells that i have been searching for the answer and cant seem to find it. from what i read moon wells are made from the waters from the well of eternity and have some kind of arcane energy. after the war of the ancients when illidan made a new well in mt hyjal they imprisoned him for years for doing so and arcane magic was taboo among the night elf society. So my question is why where these moonwells built if they had the wells water in them or are they made with something else?

Arcane is pretty much a booster of life so to speak, the night elves were just incredible afraid of that one way to use it. To this day they still use the arcane but not for magic as we know it, but rather to enhance their druidic lifestyle.

[Wildmoon]

There's a quest chain in suramar that explains the process of creating a moonwell. You don't need water from WoE. It's a joint effort between the druid and the priestess.

[Combatbutler]

There's a quest chain in suramar that explains the process of creating a moonwell. You don't need water from WoE. It's a joint effort between the druid and the priestess.

They use some leftover water from another moonwell though, which contains some of Woe, which would explain that one particular line during the artifact quest, were you learn the well is all but destroyed, as long as a single drop remains hope is not lost.

[Wildmoon]

They use some leftover water from another moonwell though, which contains some of Woe, which would explain that one particular line during the artifact quest, were you learn the well is all but destroyed, as long as a single drop remains hope is not lost.

The weird thing is at the end of the druid class campagin the well is big and well. lol

[Combatbutler]

The weird thing is at the end of the druid class campagin the well is big and well. lol

They most likely just poured ordinary water on top, diluting it further, maybe reducing the potency to half a vial, if that puddle was any indication ;P

[ravenmoon]

I have a question about moonwells that i have been searching for the answer and cant seem to find it. from what i read moon wells are made from the waters from the well of eternity and have some kind of arcane energy. after the war of the ancients when illidan made a new well in mt hyjal they imprisoned him for years for doing so and arcane magic was taboo among the night elf society. So my question is why where these moonwells built if they had the wells water in them or are they made with something else?

Ah, okay. Below is a very comprehensive answer (for a forum thread), I hope will give you a thorough understanding of the situation, seeing it took me nearly half an hour to write.

Firstly, the night elves imprisoned Illidan because they thought he was still working for the burning legion and they interpreted the act of re-creating the well of eternity as a proof of that after he killed some guards and nearly killed Jarod in an uncontrollable fit of rage.

Why would they think that? Because the arcane is bad? No! But because the Well of Eternity had been the source of the demonic invasion and it's dispersion caused the Sundering - at the time, the night elves felt the Well of eternity's usage for arcane spells was the only thing that could draw the legion - as it was intense spell casting that caught the attention of the legion in the first place - using arcane magic intensely tears into the fabric of reality like a bright beacon in the twisting nether yelling "hey, I'm over here, lots of magic" - the twisting nether is kinda like a parallel dimension.

Been the arcane geniuses that they were, all night elves knew this after it happened (not just the experts or the most powerful magical users highborne). Prior to the arrival of the demons when Azshara was increasingly and disturbingly intensely using the Well of Eternity to do more stuff (increasingly whimsical and extravagant things one would hardly call "necessary"), the night elves had started noticing an imbalance, addiction arising from such un-controlled and imbalanced use, not to mention the darkening and violent bubbling of the source such increasing use was causing and alarming many (WotA), and they warned the Queen, not just murmering, but even the Highborne did so, those of Nar'thalas, Menaar, and ofc the likes of Malfurion in Suramar was outspoken against this, there were murmurs against the highborne under Azshara for this, eventually, the usage was noticed in the twisting nether.

The night elves thought the demons were after the magic source, and that is why they had come to Azeroth. So effectively the Well of Eternity to their knowledge at the time was the only thing the demons wanted and it's usage the only thing powerful enough to draw them and ofc make a portal for them (which any remaining legion affliators like the Satyr would be able to do if they got their hands on the power). Once the source of their attraction was gone, both the object and means to get to Azeroth would no longer be.

Mr Illidan Stormrage, didn't think so ofc, the Well of Eternity was a huge asset the night elves could use to rebuild their civilization and have powerful magic to wield once more, replenish what was lost and repair the broken lands and forests very quickly but more importantly prepare for the inevitable next invasion he knew would come. He did not realize the night elves would not view it his way - OFc they had never been touched by Sargeras, they had no idea how endless the demons were, and did not realize the true objective of the demons, nor that they would return with or without the well.

As Illidan had been a double agent in the legion, but self-appointed, - no one could vouch for him that he had never been on the side of the demons, because everyone including his brother thought that he willingly joined - except you the reader (of WotA) or the player (following the Xe'ra quest chain), who are given insight, Illidan fooled everyone including Sargears, he did this because he believed the only way to fight the demons was to learn their power and use it against them, he likely felt he had to go completely undercover to fool someone like Sargeras.

He assumed the night elves would at least see the usefulness of the Well of Eternity they had utterly depended on for all their modern conveniences -pretty much like we do electricity, but much more than that too, rebuilding, re-growing, doing things better than how Azshara ended it, and fixing the error that led to this tragedy. The Well of Eternity arcane source was what made the night elves into highly intelligent and virtually immortal beings they were physically, it's use further enhanced that already high intelligence and virtual immortality into immortality (as mages naturally do - boost intellect via arcane means ontop of your already high natural levels) - the arcane source improved everything around them, and in learning its secrets, they discovered arcane magic and had used it to transform the world, sculpting beautiful cities and forests - beautifying the world and enhancing it into a wonder - effectively they were doing what the titan keepers had been doing until they got too cocky.

However when using the Well of Eternity for spells became the thing that drew world destroyers like the Legion, and could cause something like the sundering - they feared it's use, it's cost now far outweighing its benefits - i mean they could give up cities, and power at their fingertips, even enhanced life, health, strength - such things would mean nothing if a more powerful foe destroys you right? At least you still have your life - you can live without it. So Malfurion was happy the Well was gone.

So when Illidan remade it, they were furious - because they thought it made Azeroth a target again (they didn't know the Legion was after the planet, they thought only the Well - only Illidan amongst them knew otherwise, but when they didn't trust him, they did not believe him) thinking it was the only means to call them.

At first they would have believed Illidan, but when he killed some guards who questioned him about what he was doing at the only lake of fresh water, he lost control (we now know because of the inner demon struggle DHs touched by demons have to endure - it was still new to him then remember), but they took that to mean that he was fighting them because they were interrupting him trying to summon the legion back with the new well of eternity, thinking that's why he re-made the Well, not knowing he was trying to restore his people's greatest gift. This is why they call him betrayer and it's erroneous ofc, but it's because of this event and how they interpreted it.

Jarod Shadowsong spared his life as it was his right to judge Illidan for his attempted murder, but Tyrande persuaded him not to, finding compassion for Illidan. But they were convinced now he made the well to get the legion back and not to heal his people.
So they did not believe anything he said, they did not believe that having the well or not made no difference to the legion, they would find a way back. They were better off strong, with the well of eternity behind them than not.
Later, Darth'remar told the Hyjal survivors that arcane magic, via the well of eternity could be used without alerting demons in the twisting nether - he theorized to them what Illidan already knew (and ofc what the night elves of Suramar and Eldre'thalas - highborne led were already practicing) that it should be possible to mask the arcane signature beacon from the twisting nether, making arcane usage of even the largest quantities impossible for beings in the nether to detect. The hyjal group, namely Malfurion concluded that it was still better not to use the arcane, it was too much a risk to take, one they could not responsibly take again after they botched it up the first time, and that the motivation for the highborne's pressure was from their addiction - another thing the night elves could be totally rid off by staying away from using the arcane for spells. Malfurion worried that if they used it again, they would become uncontrollable and get as reckless as Azshara did, and possibly do worse. Darth'remar and Illidan's position were that now they know of the harm using this can cause, they can compensate for it, be more disciplined and ensure no one ever goes whackey while also ensuring the use isn't detected in the nether. Hindsight will help them.

Too risky, so the druids denied the request and this leads to the exile when the zin'azshari highborne with them break the rules in an attempt to convince them, whipping up a storm that goes horribly wrong.
The reason they did not disperse and would not disperse the second well was because of the already fragile state the world was in from the first sundering, there was no telling what would happen if they dispersed this new well, so to prevent it from abuse and to mask its natural power from extra-dimensional eyes (this is the Well itself now, not using it for spells) Alexstrasza grew Nordrassil, to regulate the power, and as a reward for the survivors role in stopping the Legion and saving Azeroth, Cenarius linked the Hyjal group to Nordrassil, and the Aspects blessing of the dream gave them spirit and hope once more to carry on without their great cities and sophisticated lives, Alexstrasza blessing gave life and immunity to sicknesses and diseases, whiles Nozdormu's made their virtual immortality actual immortality granting resistance to elements and magic - these were things they use to do for themselves via the arcane, but no longer using it for spells, the tree provides this.

Note how the night elves in Suramar gain the same benefits via the nightwell like all night elves had done via the Well of Eternity, and the night elves of Eldre'thalas gain theirs via Immol'thar the colossal battery demon they trapped and were siphoning massive amounts of energy.

Stuck with the Well, and refusing to use it for spells or to repair, but instead to carry out their vigil, the night elves still linked to it instead used it's natural properties to do what it does best, enahnce life around it, causing things to grow better, the land is enhanced, living beings are enhanced by it's natural arcane properties. The purification is similar to how a priest purifies water to make it Holy Water, a prayer that supposedely blesses the water, and keeps it free of any impurities, we know priests can cleanse, so they keep the waters pure and un-defiled/corrupted when they take it from the source into moonwells and that's all they used the well for.
This is why the highborne (whether high elves or House shen'dralar Eldre'thalas Highborne night elves) were extremely contemptuous of the Hyjal group for not making use of all the power they had). Furthermore, since they remained in isolation, the night elven survivors of northern kalimdor never discovered that the arcane usage could indeed be masked - which the High Elves successfully did and ofc the both night elf groups in Eldre'thalas and Suramar - until they came out of isolation - the blue dragons who could have told them ofc, were also in isolation.

Ultimately although they were wrong about using the Well for spells, it was noble of them to sacrifice that much when they believed it would save the world, un-necessary, but noble. There was also the issue of addiction/corruption - which while unsolved - the high elves showed that disciplined use went a lot further, and users didn't have to become as callous and decadent as Azshara. The nightborne also show this, and while they indeed got thier bodies so out of balance it caused the corruption of nightfallen to withered if they don't keep use of the source up, they also showed that using magic even intensely doesn't make you evil, decadent or callous like it did Azshara. But the night elves have only just recently found all of this out, by interactions first with the high elves, which while strained would have happened since the 3rd war, but far more intimately with the nightborne through which the arcane corruption issues in all night elf kind (nightborne and night elf) get cured .

So in short, there is nothing wrong with the arcane source, and it's actually quite good to use, during the vigil, the issue they had was utilizing the power to do spells, the sort of level of power and sorcery it would take to say rebuild their shattered cities and re-establish their arcane society - this is what they could not do because they felt using the well for spells, was the real danger, not using the properties of the arcane source physically, it's doing large scale spellwork from it - the reason they felt so, was bec ause it was this that had cuaght the eye of the burning legion to Azeroth, had drawn them, and which they thought the legion were still after.

[Wildmoon]

It was Ysera who linked the druids to the dream so they could enter the dream easily. It was a difficult thing to do back when Malfurion started practicing it.

[Kaeth]

They most likely just poured ordinary water on top, diluting it further, maybe reducing the potency to half a vial, if that puddle was any indication ;P

Maybe Moonwells are homeopathic?

[Mace]

snip

• A lot changes for night elves with the return of Illidan, the discovery of everything he said was right, that he didn't actually betray them at all with restoring the well.
• A lot also changes with the re-discovery that Suramar survived and not everything was lost in the sundering including a power source capable of restoring what they missed for 10k years.
• A lot also changes with the final healing of arcane hunger/imbalance that is commonly known as addiction that imbalanced the night elves with the arcane in that pre-sundering era, affecting most of all the highborne group
• A lot changes when they discover that the Legion has been after the planet long before even the night elves existed, not for the Well either, but for the planet, and would have found it regardless of whether Azshara did what she did or not.

They already realize now that using arcane magic could have carried on with appropriate precautions taken - imagine how they must feel about that - however they would still have had the issue of addiction to contend with if they had used, and that has not been dealt with until now.

This does open up a lot of freedom and development for the night elves, enough to energize them to live well now, give them some ambition to actually rebuild and not just exist to stop corruption - no longer the punishing self blame, and the sadness many would have had. It's new hope, they can trust themselves with magic which they knew how to do quite well, they can have confidence in their ability to do good things - restore the sort of beauty of suramar to their cities, and the beauty of Val'sharah to their forests, and the magical might should give them the strength to competently protect their lands in order to do this.

But my thinking is that, this effect on the night elves will be missed by blizzard - Legion is so significant for that group. This is the invading force that really set them back to the wood age, split their people, and the source of all elven division, tragedy, 10k years of seclusion, isolation, shame, not to mention the lives that were lost - i mean this potential can truly revive this groups' spirit and give us a more robust forward thinking night elf group. If they choose to develop them rather than ignore them. It's literally all the things that tore them apart are present now with the potential to heal their wounded spirits.

- - - Updated - - -

It was Ysera who linked the druids to the dream so they could enter the dream easily. It was a difficult thing to do back when Malfurion started practicing it.

indeed, that link is what sustained their spirits so they could actually go on in their new world without fancy cities and arcane magic - otherwise they'd have been lost to madness and despair, we can hail the night elf spirit that caused them to persevere so nobley after such devastating loss, but the link to the emerald dream allowed them to dream again - or it would have destroyed them and there is no way they would have been able to do something like the Vigil for 10k years, so well.

IT can also explain how lacklustre they've been in wow, since that is Ysera's gift they lost, in addition to the immortality, but in Legion the root cause of their pain, the things that drove them apart, the magical problems - where one group felt it had to abstain, and another who didn't got really imbalanced/corrupted from it, while the 3rd group nearly got destroyed by trying to solve the issues by siphoning a demon's power - this finally finds solution, even those that were still wary of arcane magic after the highborne were let in, can rest easy now.

The night elves can have a revival, or should do with all this. But I am not sure blizzard will continue to work on them, building them up like they did the Blood elves. Primarily because of how poorly they reflected the highborne's initial return in Cata, but saying that this is a much bigger expose on night elf society, much bigger look in, so who know - you might see more confident night elves in the future.

[ravenmoon]

• A lot changes for night elves with the return of Illidan, the discovery of everything he said was right, that he didn't actually betray them at all with restoring the well.
• A lot also changes with the re-discovery that Suramar survived and not everything was lost in the sundering including a power source capable of restoring what they missed for 10k years.
• A lot also changes with the final healing of arcane hunger/imbalance that is commonly known as addiction that imbalanced the night elves with the arcane in that pre-sundering era, affecting most of all the highborne group
• A lot changes when they discover that the Legion has been after the planet long before even the night elves existed, not for the Well either, but for the planet, and would have found it regardless of whether Azshara did what she did or not.

They already realize now that using arcane magic could have carried on with appropriate precautions taken - imagine how they must feel about that - however they would still have had the issue of addiction to contend with if they had used, and that has not been dealt with until now.

This does open up a lot of freedom and development for the night elves, enough to energize them to live well now, give them some ambition to actually rebuild and not just exist to stop corruption - no longer the punishing self blame, and the sadness many would have had. It's new hope, they can trust themselves with magic which they knew how to do quite well, they can have confidence in their ability to do good things - restore the sort of beauty of suramar to their cities, and the beauty of Val'sharah to their forests, and the magical might should give them the strength to competently protect their lands in order to do this.

But my thinking is that, this effect on the night elves will be missed by blizzard - Legion is so significant for that group. This is the invading force that really set them back to the wood age, split their people, and the source of all elven division, tragedy, 10k years of seclusion, isolation, shame, not to mention the lives that were lost - i mean this potential can truly revive this groups' spirit and give us a more robust forward thinking night elf group. If they choose to develop them rather than ignore them. It's literally all the things that tore them apart are present now with the potential to heal their wounded spirits.

It's a game changer for Nelves, all of it - Suramar, the Arcan'dor, the Legion, the demon hunters, Illidan, the Nightborne - this group is getting all it's shit we've been waiting for since WC3, sorted out - it took them 14 years, and i maintain it's because night elves were alliance, and horde is what they've been boosting primarily in wow - they've only really developed the human race until now for the alliance, but kept the horde taking precedence.

I understand why, because the horde's lore was lagging behind, but by joining the night elves to the alliance, it meant they weren't going to get attention. This is also why you suspect we're not going to see the strongest possible outcome from this for the night elves - oh .. I get it now, this is why you are angling for a neutral kingdom, you know if nightborne get stuck in the alliance they'll be eventually rubbished, for any of the night elves to stand a chance of not being a joke or the butt end, they need a neutral kingdom free of the horde/alliance and the bias applied to them to keep gameplay even.

lol, I should've figured this out sooner - i've been anxious that the very night elven nightborne would be made to not have anything to do with the night elves because everyone seems to view them as blood elves completely missing that they are night elf highborne = nightborne , and got caught up in a pointless crusade to emphasize their night elvenness, when i should have been focusing on keeping them neutral which would allow a proper story development for the night elven peoples at last - a place they can grow them into their full potential without the whines and pressures you get when a group gets placed in a faction. Effectively leaving the alliance night elf to continue being what people are now use to - boring, stuck, and sidekicks, - but this new group potentially being something different.

Another option is if they are put in both factions - which would help their cause as they'll get focus, but because both factions fight, they may just be ignored like the Pandaren - however though with a small group of nightborne in both factions, but the main nightborne/night elves an independent neutral kingdom ruled from Suramar like you've been suggesting, it just might work. That way Broken Isles night elven kingdom is neutral and carries on the above conflict - world matters stance with a healed night elf/nightborne/highborne group. While the night elves and blood elves of the horde and the allinace continue their petty struggle with a small group of nightborne choosing to align on either side. And in the nightborne we get the night elf empire back, just like we get the Pandaren empire back after MoP.

It might work. I need to think about this.

[Shiftyfish]

everyone seems to view them as blood elves completely missing that they are night elf highborne = nightborne

according to Chronicles they are neither blood elf nor Night elf, they are specifically stated as a new species of elf, the nightborne. I think you see many liken them to the blood elves because of the parallels in their struggle with arcane addiction as well as the obvious duality of sunwell and nightwell which could be observed.

they once were night elves, but their long exposure to the nightwell has changed them. just as the long exposure to the well of eternity turned the dark trolls into the night elves which came before them but we do not still consider the Nelves to be trolls. so why would we do the same with the Nightborne by calling them Night elves.

[Wildmoon]

indeed, that link is what sustained their spirits so they could actually go on in their new world without fancy cities and arcane magic - otherwise they'd have been lost to madness and despair, we can hail the night elf spirit that caused them to persevere so nobley after such devastating loss, but the link to the emerald dream allowed them to dream again - or it would have destroyed them and there is no way they would have been able to do something like the Vigil for 10k years, so well.

IT can also explain how lacklustre they've been in wow, since that is Ysera's gift they lost, in addition to the immortality, but in Legion the root cause of their pain, the things that drove them apart, the magical problems - where one group felt it had to abstain, and another who didn't got really imbalanced/corrupted from it, while the 3rd group nearly got destroyed by trying to solve the issues by siphoning a demon's power - this finally finds solution, even those that were still wary of arcane magic after the highborne were let in, can rest easy now.

The night elves can have a revival, or should do with all this. But I am not sure blizzard will continue to work on them, building them up like they did the Blood elves. Primarily because of how poorly they reflected the highborne's initial return in Cata, but saying that this is a much bigger expose on night elf society, much bigger look in, so who know - you might see more confident night elves in the future.

Ysera's blessing specifically had nothing to do with others except the druids. It just gave them an easier time to access the Emerald Dream. It was not an easy thing to do back in Malfurion's days of practicing.

The Night Elves would not be lost either way. They could live just fine. Those who were not okay because they just mourn the old days. There was one specific point that Malfurion made in WC3 which I like because he was one of the few if not the only one who thought like that. He addressed Tyrande's hesitation in sacrificing Nordrassil that if pride gave them a pause then perhaps they had lived long enough already. The Night Elves took for granted that all thesse things like immortality,magic,the world tree,etc belonged to them.

[Mace]

according to Chronicles they are neither blood elf nor Night elf, they are specifically stated as a new species of elf, the nightborne. I think you see many liken them to the blood elves because of the parallels in their struggle with arcane addiction as well as the obvious duality of sunwell and nightwell which could be observed.

they once were night elves, but their long exposure to the nightwell has changed them. just as the long exposure to the well of eternity turned the dark trolls into the night elves which came before them but we do not still consider the Nelves to be trolls. so why would we do the same with the Nightborne by calling them Night elves.

careful with semantics, they are a night elf sub-race. Not the night elves we play, but a different kind, a sub-race of them.

Lets look in a little closer. Remember in chronicles they are described under the night elf section, not a new separate race category and in the text they are specifically stated as a new race in chronicles

,

It doesn't specify elf or night elf. You and I infer that it is a new race of elf and night elf because of what we are shown in-game, through context, cinematics, the dialogue and experience we encounter them in etc. Why would we think they are elves or night elves if chronicles only states they are a new race? Because they are shown as still very much being nocturnal elves of the night elven arcane empire, in the night elven arcane culture, with dark skin tones, night elven themes all over and around, in a night elven city. it is both elven and night elven - and ofc, the very Suramar overview on the website the developer specifically tells you these are a new race that isn't actually a new race, but a very ancient one, the night elves of old.


Here he specifically calls them night elves.


They are changed from the current night elf, but they haven't stopped been night elven at all, in fact they are even moreso. Their arcane addiction struggles parallel the blood elves because these struggles started with the highborne night elves, and is why the blood elves had a smaller measure of it. it was a night elf problem that the alliance night elves suppressed by not using the arcane but was still there in the nightborne night elves and the highborne.

They were once night elves like this

- i.e this kind of night elf but no longer.

They are now this version

- which has a new name to mark the distinction (night based name) called nightborne, still night elven just not that kind of night elf you play on the alliance a new kind, new race, more in the sub-race vein - but definitely it's own separate unique night elven based group. this explanation is best i've seen on it.

They are not meant to be night elves you play, but they are meant to be night elven, same group, just a different race of them, a sub race. Whether it will end up being a sub-race like Dark irons are to dwarves or more like worgen are to humans (i.e. made a full playable race even though technically a sub-race) - really depends on how blizzard choose to go forward with them. Chances are they'll just leave them like all the other sub-race groups. But they might get lucky and become playable.

[ravenmoon]

Ysera's blessing specifically had nothing to do with others except the druids. It just gave them an easier time to access the Emerald Dream. It was not an easy thing to do back in Malfurion's days of practicing.

The Night Elves would not be lost either way. They could live just fine. Those who were not okay because they just mourn the old days. There was one specific point that Malfurion made in WC3 which I like because he was one of the few if not the only one who thought like that. He addressed Tyrande's hesitation in sacrificing Nordrassil that if pride gave them a pause then perhaps they had lived long enough already. The Night Elves took for granted that all thesse things like immortality,magic,the world tree,etc belonged to them.

it did, Wildmoon, I'll find the source for you, Ysera's gift had an added affect for druids, made them able to enter the dream more easily in order to fulfill their pact, but in WotA it specifically tells you about the effect on the night elven spirit. Think about it, why would all the gifts have an affect for all night elves, but this one only have an effect for druids? I wondered myself, but I no longer underestimate the value of hope, of spirit - to be able to dream again, it's the thing that keeps you going when all else is lost - especially when your lives have been shattered, it is one of the most important things to have, but it isn't substance, you can't see it or feel it or touch it, but it's there, and it drives you. Her gift was vitally important. Look at what the Shen'dralar did when they lost their power source, good for them they had a city, but I can imagine it was that act of desperation that drove them to capture a demon and use it as a battery - or they'd have fallen to bits in their new reality.

Ofc the night elves of Suramar never faced such a quandry, having preserved the city intact and a power source, phrased as "an elixir to rival the Well of Eternity itself" - there time of testing came at first when they nearly starved, but they overcame that, until now, when an equally terrible fate was at hand.

[Wildmoon]

it did, Wildmoon, I'll find the source for you, Ysera's gift had an added affect for druids, made them able to enter the dream more easily in order to fulfill their pact, but in WotA it specifically tells you about the effect on the night elven spirit. Think about it, why would all the gifts have an affect for all night elves, but this one only have an effect for druids? I wondered myself, but I no longer underestimate the value of hope, of spirit - to be able to dream again, it's the thing that keeps you going when all else is lost - especially when your lives have been shattered, it is one of the most important things to have, but it isn't substance, you can't see it or feel it or touch it, but it's there, and it drives you. Her gift was vitally important. Look at what the Shen'dralar did when they lost their power source, good for them they had a city, but I can imagine it was that act of desperation that drove them to capture a demon and use it as a battery - or they'd have fallen to bits in their new reality.

Ofc the night elves of Suramar never faced such a quandry, having preserved the city intact and a power source, phrased as "an elixir to rival the Well of Eternity itself" - there time of testing came at first when they nearly starved, but they overcame that, until now, when an equally terrible fate was at hand.

Dunno I have never seen what you said. From what I remember right the blessing was exactly what i said and Ysera just said that they gave them the ability to dream again which was obviously not meant to be taken literally as the power of hope and dream like you said. The different groups of night elves went different ways because they had different philosophy and guidance.

The night elves of Hyjal group would have lived relatively the same life style even without the blessing because that's what they planned to do from the start. They did not expect the blessings.

[ravenmoon]

careful with semantics, they are a night elf sub-race. Not the night elves we play, but a different kind, a sub-race of them.

Lets look in a little closer. Remember in chronicles they are described under the night elf section, not a new separate race category and in the text they are specifically stated as a new race in chronicles

,

It doesn't specify elf or night elf. You and I infer that it is a new race of elf and night elf because of what we are shown in-game, through context, cinematics, the dialogue and experience we encounter them in etc. Why would we think they are elves or night elves if chronicles only states they are a new race? Because they are shown as still very much being nocturnal elves of the night elven arcane empire, in the night elven arcane culture, with dark skin tones, night elven themes all over and around, in a night elven city. it is both elven and night elven - and ofc, the very Suramar overview on the website the developer specifically tells you these are a new race that isn't actually a new race, but a very ancient one, the night elves of old.


Here he specifically calls them night elves.


They are changed from the current night elf, but they haven't stopped been night elven at all, in fact they are even moreso. Their arcane addiction struggles parallel the blood elves because these struggles started with the highborne night elves, and is why the blood elves had a smaller measure of it. it was a night elf problem that the alliance night elves suppressed by not using the arcane but was still there in the nightborne night elves and the highborne.

They were once night elves like this

- i.e this kind of night elf but no longer.

They are now this version

- which has a new name to mark the distinction (night based name) called nightborne, still night elven just not that kind of night elf you play on the alliance a new kind, new race, more in the sub-race vein - but definitely it's own separate unique night elven based group. this explanation is best i've seen on it.

They are not meant to be night elves you play, but they are meant to be night elven, same group, just a different race of them, a sub race. Whether it will end up being a sub-race like Dark irons are to dwarves or more like worgen are to humans (i.e. made a full playable race even though technically a sub-race) - really depends on how blizzard choose to go forward with them. Chances are they'll just leave them like all the other sub-race groups. But they might get lucky and become playable.

EXACTLY ! - now why some people don't see it this way I don't know. Maybe because I started fussing about it and they didn't like me for it? I suspect it was one person who took "new race" to mean new race removed from anything night elven like the blood elves were - maybe because they didn't understand or realize that night elves were very arcane prior to the sundering this was showing their civilization. But it's all over the nightborne and all over Suramar - i mean for starts they are a nightbased group d'uh - in night elven pre-sundering arcane ways - d'uh, in a night elven city - d'uh, they are on saber mounts, moon and stars all over the place, they love the starlight, the night sky, - how many more clues do you need to see that these are a new arcane night elven group. Not the night elves we play ofc, but a different type recently introduced that are actually not new but quite old.

if blizzard really wanted them not associated with the night elves, why root them in night elven lore? why use a night elven city, why keep the night appearance? why keep night elven arcane customs, why show us all that? Why not, as said in another post, have used the high elves instead - they could have spun a story that during the exile, on their way to Quel'thalas, some made their way to the Broken Isles and found the ruins of Suramar, and built it up, and in order to keep their magical activities from attracting the burning legion or the night elven watchers they erected a barrier. They could have given any other group or thing if they wanted this a new race , it didn't have to be elven, and it didn't have to be night elven based - the reason it is is because they wanted to show night elven stuff, night elven arcane culture, and bring more of the night elves and their lore to life, not just the nature druid parts, there is this whole other part, the arcane part, you saw a glimpse of it in Dire Maul with the highborne, but they wanted a full on, in splendour, glory -days version.

It's their right to do that, just because you may not like night elves or like them to have or get anything nice associated with them, the developers obviously wanted to show this side. They've neglected the night elves for the majority of wow, the group has had no development, no expansion on it's lore, and now they really make for it, but because it's strange, some people don't like it.

Ofc it's gonna be similar to blood elves, but it's based of the highborne night elves, not the blood elves. Blood elves can relate to it, because they inherited this issue from the night elven highborne of arcane hunger, but they had it nowhere near as bad as guys like the night/highborne who've been at this for 10k years, not a mere 100-250 years (lifespan of a blood elf), and at an unbroken level of intensity from since before the sundering.

The high elf change is far more drastic and marked, they ripped the night out of the elf. everything turned day, light, sun, golds and reds instead of whites/pinks & purples. They built a new society the intended to eclipse the former, it would be different, sun based - and as Rommath said, what they could have done if they had the power of the Nightwell or the Well of Eternity. The blood elves over-achieved, more so than the nightborne or night elves, because having much less, they did nearly as much. Silvermoon is not far off the splendour and grandeur of Suramar, and the Sunwell was no Well of Eternity or Nightwell.

But...what do I know. I guess spending all my wow time on night elves has left me completely ignorant of them and their lore.

[Deleted]

Also Chronicles redefined the extent as to how Arcane was outlawed. Using Arcane magic was outlawed, Arcane itself isn't. Nobody would arrest you for having a Mana gem.

isn't the moon magic of the Druids of the Moon a form of arcane?