Detect inferior enchants/gems

[TwentyTwelve]

What a joke, everyone posting abusing OP should GTFO.

Its a guild group, many guilds require high end enchants/gems when raiding mythic, who the hell are you to judge.
He asked a question, either answer it or stfu.

I'm also interested in an up to date addon for this.

"lol 50 stats isn't cause of a wipe" - I'm guessing your an LFR raider and have never experienced the heart breaking 1% wipes.

[Deleted]

What a joke, everyone posting abusing OP should GTFO.

Its a guild group, many guilds require high end enchants/gems when raiding mythic, who the hell are you to judge.
He asked a question, either answer it or stfu.

I'm also interested in an up to date addon for this.

"lol 50 stats isn't cause of a wipe" - I'm guessing your an LFR raider and have never experienced the heart breaking 1% wipes.

I've experienced a 1% wipe (Mythic Furnace) where 1 guild officer failed to 2nd pot and another placed a melt in a bad spot.

[justinhalfout]

So much this. When the different between a 100 gem and a 150 gems is 100g vs 5000g, I know what I am going for.

Spotted the LFR raider right there, any guild worth their salt would make it a requirement to have the best available, if everyone in the raid had this mentality can you imagine how much the raid's base stats would decrease by?

[Eleccybubb]

Spotted the LFR raider right there, any guild worth their salt would make it a requirement to have the best available, if everyone in the raid had this mentality can you imagine how much the raid's base stats would decrease by?

But it's fine for a raid leader not to trust their guild especially a mythic one to bring the best possible stuff? Of course they would especially for serious progression. An addon like that says "I don't trust my members". I mean go into guild chat in a serious guild and ask that. Some will be alright with it yes but I bet you some would ask why you need that addon and ask about trust issues. When I used to raid Heroic when it was the current model our raid leader put entire trust in us to come with the best gear, enchants, reforges etc and behold everybody did because we wanted those bosses down. He didn't have to get some addon to tell him and instead actually had faith in us. If your guild members aren't performing or using inferior crap then ask them to in guild chat. If they refuse then either warn them, bench or boot them.

Not saying it is wrong to make sure your progression guild is enchanted with the best they can god no. But surely you should have the trust and faith in them to do so should you not especially as a raid leader?

[Axelond]

What my guild does is have a spreadsheet with links to everyone main and main alt. That way it is really easy for lets say our healing officer to open up all the healers armory and just manually check them for crafted/socketed gear.

The spreadsheet is also dynamically updating current ilvl, traits, 3rd relic slot. We also update manually legendaries if you have 0, 1 bad, 2 one good 1 bad ect. I have no idea how the code works but anyone can do it with simple API calls to the armory if you want to make something similar for your guild.

Another tip is instead of checking everyone's armory just go on your latest uploaded log on Warcraftlogs and click their character and go to summary page it will list all gear and gems/enchants. That way you wont run into the problem of people logging out in their off-spec.

This should really be under Interface and macros not raid and dungeon too many people here are just bitching about expensive enchants not contributing anything.

[Gaucho-]

Exorsus Raid Tools does this for you. But people have to install it also for all functions to work properly.

[Socialhealer]

Rofl at the poor shitters, you're flaming the OP he ASKED for information, not your opinion on how to run his/her guild or the commitment/dedication required of the guild.

That's for YOUR guild you run it YOUR way don't tell others 10k a gem isn't worth it, or people can't afford good enchants or they're not worth it, if you believe that you play in a guild with that mindset, don't tell others to do the same.

[Eleccybubb]

What my guild does is have a spreadsheet with links to everyone main and main alt. That way it is really easy for lets say our healing officer to open up all the healers armory and just manually check them for crafted/socketed gear.

The spreadsheet is also dynamically updating current ilvl, traits, 3rd relic slot. We also update manually legendaries if you have 0, 1 bad, 2 one good 1 bad ect. I have no idea how the code works but anyone can do it with simple API calls to the armory if you want to make something similar for your guild.

Another tip is instead of checking everyone's armory just go on your latest uploaded log on Warcraftlogs and click their character and go to summary page it will list all gear and gems/enchants. That way you wont run into the problem of people logging out in their off-spec.

This should really be under Interface and macros not raid and dungeon too many people here are just bitching about expensive enchants not contributing anything.

I can understand people not wanting to throw a truckload on Saber's eyes but I do agree if you are doing serious progression then you should come with the best shit ready to progress. However heroic and normal progression you can afford to use the 150 stuff just fine.

[Alfador]

But it's fine for a raid leader not to trust their guild especially a mythic one to bring the best possible stuff? Of course they would especially for serious progression. An addon like that says "I don't trust my members". I mean go into guild chat in a serious guild and ask that. Some will be alright with it yes but I bet you some would ask why you need that addon and ask about trust issues. When I used to raid Heroic when it was the current model our raid leader put entire trust in us to come with the best gear, enchants, reforges etc and behold everybody did because we wanted those bosses down. He didn't have to get some addon to tell him and instead actually had faith in us. If your guild members aren't performing or using inferior crap then ask them to in guild chat. If they refuse then either warn them, bench or boot them.

Not saying it is wrong to make sure your progression guild is enchanted with the best they can god no. But surely you should have the trust and faith in them to do so should you not especially as a raid leader?

I'm guessing you never heard the phrase "trust but verify" before? Especially at the front of an expansion when there can be a lot of recruitment as rosters turn over, you get new people on the roster who may not appreciate what's being asked of them. My guild has definitely had a few applicants that seem like they had their shit together then kind of pulled back when it was really time to put out. Do I trust the person I've raided with for months, years, even multiple xpacs? Yes. Do I trust the 5 new people rotating in that we recruited at the end of wod? Considering 2 of them were ok with max enchants then but suddenly have a problem with it now that they're much more expensive, I'd say I don't know them well enough to fully trust them yet.

Even if we say I do, or that it doesn't matter, it's still a valuable tool for fight assessment. A quick check lets me know where the rest of my guild stands. It lets me know how far below max potential the might be and I can estimate our ceiling a little better knowing that information int he moment.

As a guild that's working on mythic progression but isn't exactly shooting for realm firsts or anything, it's also a nice way to just keep tabs on what's going on and even help out some members. It wouldn't be a first that someone in raid who's usually on top of things slipped up and forgot to enchant something they got the night before, or mistakenly used an incorrect gem. With a quick-ish check of everyone in the raid I can tell if I should just check in with someone on something like that.

Of course, at the end of the day, people's guilds are their own and they can do what they want. Guild members know what they're agreeing to so who are we to tell a raid or class/role lead whether or not they should be checking their players. If a normal guild wants to demand everyone show up with Mark of the Satyr, purple gems and runes, that's on them. As long as the people in the guild know what's expected of them they can decide if it's something they want to be a part of or not, and once they do it's really on them to honor it.

[Eleccybubb]

I'm guessing you never heard the phrase "trust but verify" before? Especially at the front of an expansion when there can be a lot of recruitment as rosters turn over, you get new people on the roster who may not appreciate what's being asked of them. My guild has definitely had a few applicants that seem like they had their shit together then kind of pulled back when it was really time to put out. Do I trust the person I've raided with for months, years, even multiple xpacs? Yes. Do I trust the 5 new people rotating in that we recruited at the end of wod? Considering 2 of them were ok with max enchants then but suddenly have a problem with it now that they're much more expensive, I'd say I don't know them well enough to fully trust them yet.

Even if we say I do, or that it doesn't matter, it's still a valuable tool for fight assessment. A quick check lets me know where the rest of my guild stands. It lets me know how far below max potential the might be and I can estimate our ceiling a little better knowing that information int he moment.

As a guild that's working on mythic progression but isn't exactly shooting for realm firsts or anything, it's also a nice way to just keep tabs on what's going on and even help out some members. It wouldn't be a first that someone in raid who's usually on top of things slipped up and forgot to enchant something they got the night before, or mistakenly used an incorrect gem. With a quick-ish check of everyone in the raid I can tell if I should just check in with someone on something like that.

Of course, at the end of the day, people's guilds are their own and they can do what they want. Guild members know what they're agreeing to so who are we to tell a raid or class/role lead whether or not they should be checking their players.

If people join a serious progression guild and ignore being asked to enchant and gem to the best then they shouldn't be in a serious progression guild.

[Alfador]

If people join a serious progression guild and ignore being asked to enchant and gem to the best then they shouldn't be in a serious progression guild.

Water is wet, sky is blue, etc.

At the risk of sounding glib, no kidding. People who ignore being told to gem and enchant don't belong in a guild that asks that of them, and checks like this are how you identify them and get rid of them. Your statement here directly contradicts the earlier assertion that you should just trust them to do the right thing. You can't trust everyone implicitly and guarantee that they're all in compliance at the same time. It defies human nature. As much as they "don't belong in the guild," if you don't check and see that they don't, they're gonna just sit there, not belonging but taking up space anyway.

Other than that, seriousness is a sliding scale. There's a notable difference between a guild that runs 4 nights a week and expects to have everyone slammed out vs a guild that caters to people who still want to do the best they can but recognizes RL limits that keep people from dedicating that much time and resource to it. I've been in both, and there's nothing wrong with a guild that tells people "gem and chant as best you can, but don't go wasting 15k on that 830 neck that's first on your replacement list." In that case it's valuable to have a tool that enables a productive discussion on the topic.

[Eleccybubb]

Water is wet, sky is blue, etc.

At the risk of sounding glib, no kidding. People who ignore being told to gem and enchant don't belong in a guild that asks that of them, and checks like this are how you identify them and get rid of them. Your statement here directly contradicts the earlier assertion that you should just trust them to do the right thing. You can't trust everyone implicitly and guarantee that they're all in compliance at the same time. It defies human nature. As much as they "don't belong in the guild," if you don't check and see that they don't, they're gonna just sit there, not belonging but taking up space anyway.

Other than that, seriousness is a sliding scale. There's a notable difference between a guild that runs 4 nights a week and expects to have everyone slammed out vs a guild that caters to people who still want to do the best they can but recognizes RL limits that keep people from dedicating that much time and resource to it. I've been in both, and there's nothing wrong with a guild that tells people "gem and chant as best you can, but don't go wasting 15k on that 830 neck that's first on your replacement list." In that case it's valuable to have a tool that enables a productive discussion on the topic.

You don't sound it. If a raid leader has told you to come prepared with something for the next raid and you don't it's kind of a slap in his/her face.

[Ifeanychukwu]

So basically OP wants a snitching addon like the Personal Loot one that tells you if it's an upgrade so people can spam whisper you "TRADE ME TRADE ME" or "Trade or get kicked"

What's wrong with PLH? What's wrong with giving up a piece of gear you don't need? If you don't want to give it up just say no or don't say anything. It's your loot, the addon just reminds people that an item that may be useless to them could be useful for someone else.

[ComputerNerd]

If you expect that requirement to be met, then vet people after making that clear.
Enchants and gems only show how much someone has to spend, and if that is being used as some gauge of a player, then it sucks.

[Eleccybubb]

Exorsus Raid Tools.

You are entitled to know what people wear if it's your group. Stop crying and get the good enchants and gems.

Not saying a raid leader isn't but surely he/she should have some faith in the group to come prepared especially for Mythic progression that they wouldn't need such an addon right?

[Tavin]

exorcus raid tools or whatever its called has a window where you can see everyones artifact point/level, enchants etc. Iirc they need to have this installed so, so something your guild needs to enforce.

[Alvito]

So much this. When the different between a 100 gem and a 150 gems is 100g vs 5000g, I know what I am going for.

It all come down to the level of the game you are playing. One person going cheap on buffs isn't the end of the world, but when the entire raid does it is a huge difference.

[Alfador]

You don't sound it. If a raid leader has told you to come prepared with something for the next raid and you don't it's kind of a slap in his/her face.

Exactly, but that's kind of my point. There's always going to be people like that, even at a high-ish level. People who claim they're up for a task, people who claim they're willing to do a job and just aren't willing to follow through. It's why even when I respect someone, even if I trust them, I still verify that they did what they said they were going to. If everyone always did what they said they were going to and always did what they were asked, nobody would even need to be fired from a job or kicked from a guild. Faith only goes so far, and I promise you outside of the absolute upper crust top 1% of guilds maybe, if nobody's verifying, if that threat of accountability isn't there, someone, probably more than one someone, is going to get cheap, lazy, or forgetful.

It all come down to the level of the game you are playing. One person going cheap on buffs isn't the end of the world, but when the entire raid does it is a huge difference.

Very true, and of course it's not fair (in most cases) to let 1 get away with it and not expect a chunk of the group to follow suit. Holding everyone to the same standard just generally reduces group strain IMO.

What's wrong with PLH? What's wrong with giving up a piece of gear you don't need? If you don't want to give it up just say no or don't say anything. It's your loot, the addon just reminds people that an item that may be useless to them could be useful for someone else.

This is a whole different, off-topic issue but quite simply, as long as people accept no, it's not a big deal. the problem is people don't. I've had people absolutely flip on me for me not giving them a piece of gear, and while I do often share gear, it's not unreasonable for someone to not want to give up potential disenchant mats or even just the vendor price of a piece of loot. I don't mind the existenc and use of the addon but let's not pretend the issue isn't any more complex than "just say no" when more than once we've had recounts in this very forum of people being kicked from groups, derailing runs, etc because they wouldn't share personal loot.

[mauserr]

It all come down to the level of the game you are playing. One person going cheap on buffs isn't the end of the world, but when the entire raid does it is a huge difference.

That combined thousand of whatever secondary stat made up by missing +50 by going cheap is surely the cause of the 1%. It's not that your people aren't playing optimally, planning their movement to do as much DPS as possible, not getting the upper purple or orange percentages. It's that single 1000 of random secondaries combined from 20 people making that difference XD

And no, please, before you say I'm not a serious raider, during my primetime in MoP I raided in a guild which would shit on the progression that 99% of you people ever had with your guilds. That single thousand of combined various stats is not the cause of the 1% wipe. Mishandling mechanics and poor-ish play is. Our 1% wipes and less weren't due to insufficient DPS caused by the lack of best enchants, it was either due to too many people dying prematurely thinking it was a kill and thinking they didn't need to tryhard as much or the likes of it.

Just sim random 20 characters with best enchants available for each and do the sims for the same characters but with the cheaper versions of available gems and enchants. Compare dps between the two simmed raid groups. Make sure to do a lot of iterations to lower the error margin as much as possible. The difference will be so miniscule it's not going to amount to much.

A worse than average RNG on one of your dpses or someting during the opener would have a bigger impact than a combined thousand of various 50s of secondaries.

[Alvito]

Exactly, but that's kind of my point. There's always going to be people like that, even at a high-ish level. People who claim they're up for a task, people who claim they're willing to do a job and just aren't willing to follow through. It's why even when I respect someone, even if I trust them, I still verify that they did what they said they were going to. If everyone always did what they said they were going to and always did what they were asked, nobody would even need to be fired from a job or kicked from a guild. Faith only goes so far, and I promise you outside of the absolute upper crust top 1% of guilds maybe, if nobody's verifying, if that threat of accountability isn't there, someone, probably more than one someone, is going to get cheap, lazy, or forgetful.




Very true, and of course it's not fair (in most cases) to let 1 get away with it and not expect a chunk of the group to follow suit. Holding everyone to the same standard just generally reduces group strain IMO.




This is a whole different, off-topic issue but quite simply, as long as people accept no, it's not a big deal. the problem is people don't. I've had people absolutely flip on me for me not giving them a piece of gear, and while I do often share gear, it's not unreasonable for someone to not want to give up potential disenchant mats or even just the vendor price of a piece of loot. I don't mind the existenc and use of the addon but let's not pretend the issue isn't any more complex than "just say no" when more than once we've had recounts in this very forum of people being kicked from groups, derailing runs, etc because they wouldn't share personal loot.

Oh I completely agree that it is bull shit for some people to not use consumables or buff their gear, unless it is okay with the group. It costs a lot I get it, but you do what the group agrees to or find a new group.