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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by demapples22 View Post
    And then there is this. I played all through vanilla almost every waking hour and literally never saw anyone advertising carry sales in trade or lfg chat. I'm sure that it happened but it wasnt anything like it is now. Not even close.
    It honestly wasn't. It was more of a private thing when it happened. It's also partially due to a difference in design philosophy. A lot fewer guilds per server were completing content beyond Molten Core. Now raid tiers are designed with the expectation that you'll complete at least one difficulty. So everyone and their mother can sell carries.

  2. #102
    all these people acting like this hasn't always been a thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bFAArt6msc dates back to BC

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by bt4 View Post
    Makes zero difference as a player if they pay with $$. If they buy it with gold over tokens they actually hurt you as a player more cause they drive inflation.
    That gold is not created by buying it, it just moves from one character to another, so it doesn't drive inflation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Psykee View Post
    It actually does.

    It skews the whole reward system. First of all it is the principle of earning the best gear through skill and teamwork. This principle have been infringed upon.
    I agree that it goes against 'the principle', but the principle has no direct impact on your gameplay.

    Second of all, you would like to think a 870 geared person who have done 10+ mythic runs is actually an individual that have the gear, skill and knowledge to help you complete aforementioned dungeon difficulty. However, this is an illusion now. That person might have been boosted and are now looking to get carried by getting invites to content he is not actually a helpful factor in completing.
    It is possible that someone got lucky in their boost and actually gets a significantly higher ilevel then he would normally have. Chances are slim, but not none. Let's face it, you don't get that much gear in a boost, especially not this early in the expansion, when the boosters still need a lot of the drops. And people aren't getting dozens of boosts, because they can't afford that.

    You could then get that person in your run. Again, slim chance, because people buying boosts are people who don't want or can't finish content on their own merit, so they won't be doing that after boosting either, but it's not none. Seriously, people buy boosts because they can't get groups, or don't care about raiding, but want a certain reward (like a mount). They're not joining your groups when they are done being boosted

    And then they fail. Like so many players do that didn't get boosted. And you punt them, ignore them and move on.

    You act like a majority of your runs is going to get screwed by this, while in reality you might meet 1 or 2 boosted people that you need to remove from your group. So again, in theory it's all hell and damnation, but in reality you're not going to notice this.

  4. #104
    Because they're not welfare epics if you stuff the envelope with gold first. That's a legitimate business transaction. Nothing to see here.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiftyfish View Post
    all these people acting like this hasn't always been a thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bFAArt6msc dates back to BC
    My guild used to sell a few bear carries for gold once everyone in our raid had them.

    It's just more common to sell carries now that there are multiple difficulty levels and more guilds able to complete content when it's not so heavily gated with outside-raid stuff (like attunements)
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post

    You act like a majority of your runs is going to get screwed by this, while in reality you might meet 1 or 2 boosted people that you need to remove from your group. So again, in theory it's all hell and damnation, but in reality you're not going to notice this.
    Still a vexing feel. One could say the implications are not as much on the gameplay, as it is on the psyche. Personally i just really troubled that i have to doubt peoples achievements, i would like to be able to trust people, if even for a fragment of the game, before i am put in a potential keystone run with them.

    I guess it somewhat irrational, but then again, we people are deeply irrational. We make huge laws, changes about terrorism which many fear. While in reality getting driven down in an accident is many many timers higher. It still does not stop it from being annoying i guess, due to the first principle. Everyone wants fairness and justice.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    That gold is not created by buying it, it just moves from one character to another, so it doesn't drive inflation.
    People farm to buy tokens. Without tokens they wouldn't farm - the system drives inflation. Additionally rich people give gold with tokens to poor people. Gold that otherwise would just rot on your bank char enters thereby into the circulation and get's used up for pots etc. by people who otherwise would have no gold to compete on the market. Overall the system makes all other playes poorer as it increases the pool of people with enough gold to outbid you.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Psykee View Post
    Still a vexing feel. One could say the implications are not as much on the gameplay, as it is on the psyche. Personally i just really troubled that i have to doubt peoples achievements, i would like to be able to trust people, if even for a fragment of the game, before i am put in a potential keystone run with them.

    I guess it somewhat irrational, but then again, we people are deeply irrational. We make huge laws, changes about terrorism which many fear. While in reality getting driven down in an accident is many many timers higher. It still does not stop it from being annoying i guess, due to the first principle. Everyone wants fairness and justice.
    Well said. Awareness is step one in overcoming this feeling. Focus more on playing and enjoying what you do and less on what someone else could or could not be doing. Remember, in Classic at least 10 of the people in any Molten Core raid were being boosted by their own guild (bad players, AFK, etc) and no one cared

  9. #109
    It's because raiding guilds who came into Legion with a fortune are now going broke because of consumables and so milking the lower-progressed playerbase who aren't spending their money on pots and flasks anyway is their only hope of paying for their own progression.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Breaking News: Ethics removed from MMOs. Welcome to the jungle hope you got your dad's visa or you can't play.

    Later Tonight: What the hell happened to common sense, decency and playing for the joy of the game? Bring back the 90s where humans were seen as humans and not as cash registers.
    Breaking News: Terrestrial beings visit Earth. Assumes natural human behavior is instead a result of MMOs. Assumes humans cannot achieve anything on skill and effort and only on monetary compensation

    Later Tonight: Why can people not play the game their own way without getting offended about how others play? Do players blame some omniscient being for their own instinctive urges when people naturally use their resources to gain an advantage? Their willingness to suddenly take offense to what has always been standard practice may shock you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  11. #111
    If people want to ruin their game experience by /godmode through the content, that doesnt really concern me all that much.
    I know which content I managed to beat. I had fun figuring out how to execute a tactic etc. If someone really thinks its fun to pay thousands of gold to basicly get the lfr experience and some items with higher numbers on it, thats okay too.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Meatgrinder View Post
    Rabble Rabble Rabble!

  13. #113
    The Lightbringer Littleraven's Avatar
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    People have been doing this since BC. Not sure what the problem is. If people want to pay for a carry let them.

    The larger issue here is people requiring 860+ ilvl for Mythic dungeons. Not Mythic +. Normal Mythics lol.

  14. #114
    Banned A dot Ham's Avatar
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    I think the real issue is not cracking on their policies.

    Carries for in game transactions, gold, resources, time, etc. ARE in line with terms of service.

    Carries for real money, and/or giftcards, paypal, etc... are NOT in line with terms of service.

    The spam I seed comes from those soliciting said services for real money. Sometimes in English... MOST of the time in Chinese.

    Instead it is up to the USER to report the spam. It is up to the USER to get a chinese blocker ad on. There is no accountability or initiative on Blizzard's part to take action that will improve the experience for legitimate users.


    Regarding legitimate transactions. I really don't see a problem with a guild selling a spot to someone who wants to participate in a given piece of content probably no more than once... for either a mount, or a piece of gear, or completion of a quest etc. These patrons spend their time and energy elsewhere in game, and may not have the time, energy, or desire to participate in organized raiding and the struggle, drama, or work involved therein.

    Furthermore, with the prices of resources atm, many raiders are working at a deficit currently. So by the time they have each encounter licked... its going to be time for them to recoup some of those losses that were incurred during their attempts to complete content. Selling spots is a way to to do that.

    But again these legit ads/transactions are few and far between.
    Last edited by A dot Ham; 2016-10-10 at 06:13 PM.

  15. #115
    Thinly veiled "vanilla was better!!!" poster and post.

    Carries don't remove shit from the raiding pool, and is entirely optional. Report if there's people advertising carries for real money though.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by demapples22 View Post
    But I guess we should all pretend like this is fine and doesn't cheapen the experience of playing WoW at all. When someone logs on and is immediately greeted by a trade chat full of people tripping over each other trying to remove people from the pool of potential raiders and group recruits their first thought is "Awesome."
    It only "cheapens" the experience if you let it, and that's mostly just about how much you choose to obsess about it in your own head.

    I was involved with one of the US-Horde #FriendshipMoose groups, which alone gave away over 4,100 moose mounts to people via Twitch lottery (I believe all of the groups combined, Horde and Alliance, gave somewhere a bit over 18,000). I was in chat with these people twice per week. Very often people would thank us for the movement and explain how it was their only chance to get this mount. They couldn't raid, they didn't have the gear or the time or the inclination. Some of them who didn't win or didn't want to wait went on to buy their runs.

    What's my point? The idea that these are somehow raiders-in-waiting except that some nefarious seller got to them first is naive as all hell. What few of these people ever even tried to join "your" groups were rejected, and the vast majority of them never tried and were never going to. And this isn't some "crap on the buyers" thing -- it is words out of their own mouths about their own situations.

    But if it's important to you to complain about how badly a person you were never going to group with and a person who has their own group are hurting you, go ahead I suppose.
    “Nostalgia was like a disease, one that crept in and stole the colour from the world and the time you lived in. Made for bitter people. Dangerous people, when they wanted back what never was.” -- Steven Erikson, The Crippled God

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbolt View Post
    Not sure why peeple want to get boosted. What do people do in this game if not the content?
    Seems rather silly to me personally, but each to his own I suppose.
    If you just want a mount, for example, buying a boost for a Mythic boss is much easier than joining a Mythic raid guild for this sole purpose.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozler View Post
    It doesn't affect me and my guildies. Could literally not care less if someone buys something with their gold/money.

    That's like pretending some guy with a Lamborghini 5,000 miles from me is ruining my day. Because he has a nice car. In a different state. And I'm mad about that, for reasons I can't even discern. That bastard.

    /nerdrage
    Does not bother me either, and never bought a carry, never had a reason at least not until now, I will probably buy one for Siege of Orgrimmar the Menagerie to tame the devilsaur boss on my hunter seeing that it still takes several people to do that run.

  19. #119
    Final nail in the coffin. Extremelmy high cost raid supplies. High cost to get into a raid. Mythic Dungeon group finder excludes everyone but those looking for to pay for the run.

    Every last casual that paid for this expansion is already heading out the door. By the time Karazahn gets here these parasites will make sure no one gets to see it.

    Good job Blizzard for not paying attention!

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Lastlivingsoul View Post
    Final nail in the coffin. Extremelmy high cost raid supplies. High cost to get into a raid. Mythic Dungeon group finder excludes everyone but those looking for to pay for the run.

    Every last casual that paid for this expansion is already heading out the door. By the time Karazahn gets here these parasites will make sure no one gets to see it.

    Good job Blizzard for not paying attention!
    How is blizzards fault with what the player choose to do? You also have no evidence that people are heading out the door. Unless you have actual data you're willing to present?

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