[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[RestoChango]

I assume you have probably checked by now, but the ideal area to have crit in at the moment is above 30%. There will be and end game goal of about 45% i believe for softcap. You might be able to get to that point before the next raid tier (perhaps during nighthold), but the other three weights will fluctuate as crit increases. Personally I'm valuing vers a tad bit higher than mastery.

I am at 44% crit now at 864 equipped ilvl when my Hellfire trinket is up due to going for crit with items like the vastly oversized ring when I was at a much lower crit %

Do you think people close to 45% right now should be backing out of crit and going with vers gems/enchants or just keeping crit gear and adding other stat gear as it's acquired while staying under 45% crit?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[EzG]

I am at 44% crit now at 864 equipped ilvl when my Hellfire trinket is up due to going for crit with items like the vastly oversized ring when I was at a much lower crit %

Do you think people close to 45% right now should be backing out of crit and going with vers gems/enchants or just keeping crit gear and adding other stat gear as it's acquired while staying under 45% crit?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Stay under 45% for sure. With T19 set bonus you will reach the cap and the value of crit should plummet after that. I've just been getting as much crit as I can while following my changing stat ways across the board. Currently I have vers valued higher for me slightly above crit, and I'm around still hovering at 31.83% crit without buffs/trinket. Haven't been entirely lucky with the crit gear though.

[IndoX]

I am at 44% crit now at 864 equipped ilvl when my Hellfire trinket is up due to going for crit with items like the vastly oversized ring when I was at a much lower crit %

Do you think people close to 45% right now should be backing out of crit and going with vers gems/enchants or just keeping crit gear and adding other stat gear as it's acquired while staying under 45% crit?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

The only gear you should be concerned with crit should be your off pieces (neck and rings). Any piece of gear that has intellect and is a 10 ilvl increase is an upgrade regardless if it has crit or not. As long as you're above 30% crit you'll be fine losing a couple of pieces or lowering your crit.

[Deleted]

I have a quick question please.

So basically I am considering switching my main from monk to paladin. I will mainly tank and heal. I want to switch since I grow bored quickly of things.
While I've enjoyed playing protection in the prepatch, I was not sold on holy. Holy consisted in just hitting things that were not on cooldown and weaving some FoL or HL in between (if I remember well), which is a lot more boring than MW monk.

My question is, is holy the same in Legion as in prepatch (whack a mole button pressing) in which case i'll probably switch to druid (though I find druid tanking stale and not much fun, the healing part is probably a lot more interesting) or has something changed and I should stick to my paladin?

[Simulacrum]

I have a quick question please.

So basically I am considering switching my main from monk to paladin. I will mainly tank and heal. I want to switch since I grow bored quickly of things.
While I've enjoyed playing protection in the prepatch, I was not sold on holy. Holy consisted in just hitting things that were not on cooldown and weaving some FoL or HL in between (if I remember well), which is a lot more boring than MW monk.

My question is, is holy the same in Legion as in prepatch (whack a mole button pressing) in which case i'll probably switch to druid (though I find druid tanking stale and not much fun, the healing part is probably a lot more interesting) or has something changed and I should stick to my paladin?

Yeah, hpaladin is mostly about pushing stuff when it comes off cooldown without much thought to it. You push holy shock when it's off cooldown. You push LoD when it's off cooldown. You push prism when it's off cooldown. Rest of the time you just FoL/HL. Only ting that mixes things up even a little bit is cooldown usage.

Hpaladins have always kind of been this way, though. But it has gotten worse after they for some reason removed holy power. Not that that was super interesting either, but it was more interesting than this.

[droontar]

Hi guys! I've been a huge fan of this community for a long time and now I think it's a good time to start participating!

It's my first time playing seriously with a Holy Paladin and with the new Artifact system, I've been thinking about what spec is the best for offspec? In terms of stat weights and in paper, it seems that Prot it's the best choice (just to share the "same" gear and not having to change too much to perform well...).

Sorry for my bad english! ^^"

[Simulacrum]

Hi guys! I've been a huge fan of this community for a long time and now I think it's a good time to start participating!

It's my first time playing seriously with a Holy Paladin and with the new Artifact system, I've been thinking about what spec is the best for offspec? In terms of stat weights and in paper, it seems that Prot it's the best choice (just to share the "same" gear and not having to change too much to perform well...).

Sorry for my bad english! ^^"

With artifact knowledge, it's pretty easy to keep all specs up to date (2 golds is easy to achieve on all 3, at least, even this early in the expension with low AK).

The best offspec to maintain depends on what you want/need to do with it. Though for general purpose I'd say prot, since it's better in world content (pvp aside), and people are more likely to need tanks to run 5 mans. Though if you have to respect for your raid then you're more likely to be asked to spec ret. Ret is also pretty good in casual pvp, if that's how you roll, but so is holy.

[Smag]

Hpaladins have always kind of been this way, though. But it has gotten worse after they for some reason removed holy power. Not that that was super interesting either, but it was more interesting than this.

It was a rotational gimmick, just like Chi. Never could understand the appeal. It made you think that you had "free" heals, but you didn't really. The cost of the spell was baked into the HP generators. Plus, all HP spenders were hitting like wet noodles (except for that breif moment in Heart of Fear and EF spread). The reactionary style of paladin healing is why I love it. Having to deal with limitation of holy power was not fun in this aspect.
Playing Hpally since TBC (cos horde), I don't miss it for a second.

[Deleted]

Thank you for your insight. I will stick to druid then - I remember Wotlk where I actually enjoyed hot tracking on grid, hopefully not much has changed

[Hawg]

I don't miss it for a second.

Plus 100, HP made the spec feel clunky. It was the reason I stopped playing it. The removal is what brought me back.

I also think there is more to playing Holy than smashing buttons when they come off CD. What I love is the challenge of endurance. I'm pretty much always the last healer in the raid to go oom (rarely do) and and the last to die in a wipe (or ugly kill). even though my CD's are weak in comparison to other classes, they have shorter CD's so I get more use out of them in a given fight.

To me the most challenging part of healing as Holy is remembering to use our entire tool set, like our blessings. It gives us a lot of hidden potential beyond just Holy shock and flash of light.

[Simulacrum]

It was a rotational gimmick, just like Chi. Never could understand the appeal. It made you think that you had "free" heals, but you didn't really. The cost of the spell was baked into the HP generators. Plus, all HP spenders were hitting like wet noodles (except for that breif moment in Heart of Fear and EF spread). The reactionary style of paladin healing is why I love it. Having to deal with limitation of holy power was not fun in this aspect.
Playing Hpally since TBC (cos horde), I don't miss it for a second.

Yeah, it wasn't about having "free" heals, that's stupid. It was about having something to cast other than cooldown abilities and FoL. And hitting like wet noodles? Hpaladin gameplay all the way through throne at least was all about the HP spenders, specifically EF. Granted, it was a bit degenerate in how every heal other than holy shock and holy radiance was redundant, but keeping EFs on half the raid while healing the tank(s) with empowered holy shocks and beacon transfer was super powerful. And you felt like a god when you popped wings, especially in smaller raid sizes.

Now it's just you pop cooldown abilities on cooldown and cast FoL the rest of the time, and you can't do shit while moving, unlike when you had instant WoG/EF that allowed you this really smooth playstyle for movement fights, where you'd time it so during moments of non-movement you cast radiance and saved HP for EFs during those short movement phases that were constant throughout almost every fight. MoP was easily the most fun, reactive, an empowering playstyle hpaladins ever had. Now you just feel like a slow, shitty gimp compared to back then; like they took all the tools that let you play well away from you and forced you to ride around in 2nd gear the whole time. They even saddled us with this awful, playstyle-limiting mastery. Man, we don't even have rebuke anymore.

[Viskah]

I've hit a bit of a Trinket dilemma.

http://i.imgur.com/8qwO4gR.png


Those are my options right now. Last raid week I ran with Heightened Senses and Nightmare Fog. I noticed that Nightmare fog was pretty low on healing, maybe doing around 2 million healing.

I really Like Heightened Senses since it's a nice mix of Vers, some Int and a little haste. Vers is actually the stat I most desire right now since I'm sitting around 35% crit.

I just got the Seventh Spine today, I'm going to test the mana return next raid week in normal.

I was thinking about using the Stat Stick and Heightended Sense in progression this week.

[EzG]

I've hit a bit of a Trinket dilemma.

http://i.imgur.com/8qwO4gR.png


Those are my options right now. Last raid week I ran with Heightened Senses and Nightmare Fog. I noticed that Nightmare fog was pretty low on healing, maybe doing around 2 million healing.

I really Like Heightened Senses since it's a nice mix of Vers, some Int and a little haste. Vers is actually the stat I most desire right now since I'm sitting around 35% crit.

I just got the Seventh Spine today, I'm going to test the mana return next raid week in normal.

I was thinking about using the Stat Stick and Heightended Sense in progression this week.

Heightened Sense is a type of trinket that will proc randomly and can likely proc when you have no need for it making it a complete waste sometimes and merely a versatility stat stick. If you are struggling for mana amalgam might be useful to you, but you shouldn't be too hard on mana so the stat stick would be a little better. Nightmare Fog is useful when the raid takes a constant amount of damage where you are sure the bubble it gives will be used and net you some healing whereas some of the other bursty fights like ursoc you have no way of ensuring everyone will have a bubble and use it within a cacophony or charge. Chronoshard has decent passive int but the random proc is pretty worthless kind of like hightened senses.

With all of that said it looks like you are better off going stat stick and another passive int like amalgam or chrono shard.

[Viskah]

Heightened Sense is a type of trinket that will proc randomly and can likely proc when you have no need for it making it a complete waste sometimes and merely a versatility stat stick. If you are struggling for mana amalgam might be useful to you, but you shouldn't be too hard on mana so the stat stick would be a little better. Nightmare Fog is useful when the raid takes a constant amount of damage where you are sure the bubble it gives will be used and net you some healing whereas some of the other bursty fights like ursoc you have no way of ensuring everyone will have a bubble and use it within a cacophony or charge. Chronoshard has decent passive int but the random proc is pretty worthless kind of like hightened senses.

With all of that said it looks like you are better off going stat stick and another passive int like amalgam or chrono shard.

So would 2 Int stat sticks be the best option? Also, even on Cenarius the Fog was only doing around 2 million Absorb, which seems super low with all the constant damage going out.

I might look into building a DMC as well, should have mentioned that.

[Colmadero]

Greetings fellow paladins!

Are there any thorough guides online as far as gearing, rotation and such for Holy?

I main ret and OS prot but I wanna try giving Holy a chance and see how I like it.

Icy Veins can only provide so much.

[EzG]

@Colmadero http://www.wowhead.com/guides/classe.../holy/overview

@Viskah I use DMC and Horn of Valor. Also fog has proved useful in the mythic fights where most fights have a constant or huge sources of damage.

[Viskah]

@Colmadero http://www.wowhead.com/guides/classe.../holy/overview

@Viskah I use DMC and Horn of Valor. Also fog has proved useful in the mythic fights where most fights have a constant or huge sources of damage.

I have a 825 Horn with a socket, would that be any better than what I currently have?

[Taeldorian]

Just to point out really quick, with the 7.1 dev Q&A coming up now is a good time to ask about the removal of radar addons (bandaid and /radar from dbm) and if anything will be adjusted due to that.

It won't really affect us that much honestly, it's either you're standing with range or melee and you move accordingly, so the addons aren't that big of a deal. I've been practicing using LoD without bandaid and it's been working fine. Especially with Rule of Law. So it won't affect me that much and I can't see it being a giant problem, but if you're curious or want to see if they have plans I guess now is when you should ask.

Either way if you're curious about it, nows the time to ask. Sorry for going off topic.

[RestoChango]

Stay under 45% for sure. With T19 set bonus you will reach the cap and the value of crit should plummet after that. I've just been getting as much crit as I can while following my changing stat ways across the board. Currently I have vers valued higher for me slightly above crit, and I'm around still hovering at 31.83% crit without buffs/trinket. Haven't been entirely lucky with the crit gear though.

The only gear you should be concerned with crit should be your off pieces (neck and rings). Any piece of gear that has intellect and is a 10 ilvl increase is an upgrade regardless if it has crit or not. As long as you're above 30% crit you'll be fine losing a couple of pieces or lowering your crit.

Appreciate the input, I've changed a couple of pieces and divided my gear up into mastery and versatility sets which I can use on different bosses.

I think part of my apprehension to move away from crit has been uncertainty around whether mastery or vers is better so crit seemed like a safe bet.

[wombats23]

Yeah, it wasn't about having "free" heals, that's stupid. It was about having something to cast other than cooldown abilities and FoL. And hitting like wet noodles? Hpaladin gameplay all the way through throne at least was all about the HP spenders, specifically EF. Granted, it was a bit degenerate in how every heal other than holy shock and holy radiance was redundant, but keeping EFs on half the raid while healing the tank(s) with empowered holy shocks and beacon transfer was super powerful. And you felt like a god when you popped wings, especially in smaller raid sizes.

Now it's just you pop cooldown abilities on cooldown and cast FoL the rest of the time, and you can't do shit while moving, unlike when you had instant WoG/EF that allowed you this really smooth playstyle for movement fights, where you'd time it so during moments of non-movement you cast radiance and saved HP for EFs during those short movement phases that were constant throughout almost every fight. MoP was easily the most fun, reactive, an empowering playstyle hpaladins ever had. Now you just feel like a slow, shitty gimp compared to back then; like they took all the tools that let you play well away from you and forced you to ride around in 2nd gear the whole time. They even saddled us with this awful, playstyle-limiting mastery. Man, we don't even have rebuke anymore.

MoP's version of hpally was empowering because it completely overshadowed every other healer that wasn't a disc priest since pro-active shields were king of the entire expansion. It's rather perplexing you consider hpallies to be reactive healers in MoP when you yourself said it was about keeping EFs on half the raid (to milk your mastery.) On top of that, between smart heals and beacon transferring as you mentioned, tank healing was a non issue.

Hpallies were fun during MoP because of how strong they were, but the whole healing "meta" was at an all time low thanks to spirit shell, atonement, and hpally mastery IMHO.