I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Snuffleupagus]

.....cata had much bigger issues then nerfing some of the most fun dungeons in ages(yes I did them pre nerfs)

The world redesign was done HORRIBLY and overall it was just a bad expansion.

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...Not everyone wants to raid you know and it is not the end all be all.

Or maybe he does but is in a small social guild?

Maybe his guild fell apart while away or just resubbed?

And if anything lfr would take more time overall but likely less in short bursts to finish.

The world redesign was handled horribly, but it actual redesign was not bad. I have many words to say on the topic of removing the old world and story gaps for new players, but that can be discussed elsewhere.

The expansion shifted gears in the first few months due to forum QQ, which Blizzard foolishly listened to.

And the raiding point is that it is not a huge time investment, requires 10 people, and is easily done over a few weeks. Normal mode raiding is not indicative of higher levels of play anymore, and is part of organised PVE. Which is what that entire selection of skins is a reward for.

Queueable PVE content doesn't have associated cosmetic rewards.

Say that word with me again.

Cosmetic.

As in something people use to wave their dicks around on the Dalaran bank steps or in Stormwind/Orgymar. That kind of thing has been around for years now, unless you've forgotten Dalaran in early Wrath, where people ran around the city at level 80 in level 70 Sunwell gear.

Paladin Judgement set still turns my head.

You either participate if you really want the reward, or you don't. And get nothing. Just like how I only have a handful of PVP mounts. I hate PVP. But I like the cosmetic reward. So I went into arenas. Got my rating. Got my reward.

Done.

No more attunements involving prior raid tiers. Fantastic in my opinion. Raiding is legitimately more accessible than ever, and the only people who think otherwise are the ones still bitter over BC, people who listen to the bitter idiots, or people who lack the minimal social skills required to join a guild or start one themselves.

Tier is back. Legendaries are freely available. And this in itself is not terrible, as it allows those who wish to move up to organised raiding to do so without gear barriers. Yes, they will suffer in ilvl, but given how important Tier bonuses can be, now any relatively skilled player has a path to better gear if they are willing to put in a bit more effort.

But cosmetic rewards? Man up or shut up.

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Or just Mythic dungeon runer who dont give a flying shit about raids. Those people DO exist ya know?

If you can't do Normal EN, I 100% guarantee you can't do M+15.

All you need is two groups to work together and Normal EN is cake.

[A Chozo]

But cosmetic rewards? Man up or shut up.

Totally ignoring the current discussion, I just want to point something out: Cosmetic rewards are very big rewards. Mounts? They all run the same speed, but people farm that guy in the frozen spire for years, searching for this one, specific mount.

COSMETIC is the true rewards! Gearing is just a proccess to reach it! Transmog is the endgame!

So yeah, just because an reward is cosmetic, doesn't mean it's so optional that people should ignore the circunstances. If a playerbase can't reach a desired cosmetic reward, there may be some backlash.

[Snuffleupagus]

It doesnt matter. Mythic dungeons were advertised as replacement for raids if you so desire. You can never, ever do raid and have on par items and ilvl (minus sets, but then can as well put them into chests later on). Design tell them "fuck you and your work - want that color you work unlocked? Better run content you dont want to, dont have time etc. Or fuck you". This is bad design. This is fuck up. Blizzard fucked up. Simple as that.

Cosmetic rewards are an indication of progression in certain content. In this case, non-queueable PVE.

Mythic+ was advertised as a way to progress character power, which a skin is not part of.

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Totally ignoring the current discussion, I just want to point something out: Cosmetic rewards are very big rewards. Mounts? They all run the same speed, but people farm that guy in the frozen spire for years, searching for this one, specific mount.

COSMETIC is the true rewards! Gearing is just a proccess to reach it! Transmog is the endgame!

So yeah, just because an reward is cosmetic, doesn't mean it's so optional that people should ignore the circunstances. If a playerbase can't reach a desired cosmetic reward, there may be some backlash.

There's a reason mounts are rare after an expansion.

Scarcity increases percieved value. Giving everyone an item makes it common and therefore worthless.

Remember when it was acceptable to raid in Blue gear? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

[A Chozo]

There's a reason mounts are rare after an expansion.

Scarcity increases percieved value. Giving everyone an item makes it common and therefore worthless.

Remember when it was acceptable to raid in Blue gear? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

The worth of a cosmetic item. Now this is a good topic. For some, it is important to be special in comparsion to others. They want to stand out while standing near the Auction House of a mmo-rpg. It's interesting. For those, a common item is worthless. For others, a common item's worth is not measured by it's rarity. Sometimes the best Classic Knight transmog is only matched by the regular armored horse mount.

[Dreknar20]

We're going to go in circles. There's no point in talking about this anymore. Blizzard's plan is to give different type of players the ability to progress. Cosmetics ARE NOT progression. I'm not going to reply anymore.

which is besides the point.

People seem unable to grasp a simple concept that players BETTER than YOU get BETTER things.
Cant run normal or whatever? Well tough shit.

There are others who are putting in that time and effort. And that makes them more DESERVING than YOU.

[Snuffleupagus]

The worth of a cosmetic item. Now this is a good topic. For some, it is important to be special in comparsion to others. They want to stand out while standing near the Auction House of a mmo-rpg. It's interesting. For those, a common item is worthless. For others, a common item's worth is not measured by it's rarity. Sometimes the best Classic Knight transmog is only matched by the regular armored horse mount.

Good for you, but the majority of people don't work that way. Just look at collectors items. Rare comic books are worth thousands of dollars for the simple fact that you can't buy original copies anymore.

Cosmetic rewards are gated and kept scarce, and rightfully so.

[tru]

look every single player starts with the exact same class/spec weapon. their isnt much varity in line of weapons really. if everyone could easily get the unlocks nobody would stand out and there should be those that stand out. if you want it now then do what has to be done. if not wait till next tier when lfr noobs are burning through EN normal in an hour or 2.

The time you sit in que vs trying to hitup a group in the group finder...

[Sorrior]

Except cosmetic items are not related to ilvl? That's why Blizz is doing this. They aren't gating player power or quality of life behind a single type of play. Cosmetics are different.

We're going to go in circles. There's no point in talking about this anymore. Blizzard's plan is to give different type of players the ability to progress. Cosmetics ARE NOT progression. I'm not going to reply anymore.

To quote a saying we have in ffxiv "The real endgame is Glamor" in wow terms it is saying the true endgame is transmog or appearance and looks

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The worth of a cosmetic item. Now this is a good topic. For some, it is important to be special in comparsion to others. They want to stand out while standing near the Auction House of a mmo-rpg. It's interesting. For those, a common item is worthless. For others, a common item's worth is not measured by it's rarity. Sometimes the best Classic Knight transmog is only matched by the regular armored horse mount.

Dude you have no IDEA how much I want white items for looks so many would be GREAT

As for the cosmetics being about showing off to me it is about making the best damn look I can and it this expansion depending on the class(looking at you druid) This is obnoxiously hard to do

[Glorious Leader]

That's exactly what the game is like now. My highest ilvl pieces are from sources other than raids. That it's not tier gear is kind of insignificant.

To be fair legion is a much better game than wod. Theirs no reason to keep tier pieces in a raid though. Theyve had them on vendors in the past was it really that bad of a system?

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Normal mode is easier than DS lfr, and early MoP lfr. If you can't do normal, you shouldn't be playing WoW...

[Glorious Leader]

You want the same rewards by putting in less time?

I disagree. Sorry.

Not at all. Im guessing english isnt your first language? I think time investment should be a key factor but raiding is not and should not be the only way to invest time.

[Sorrior]

which is besides the point.

People seem unable to grasp a simple concept that players BETTER than YOU get BETTER things.
Cant run normal or whatever? Well tough shit.

There are others who are putting in that time and effort. And that makes them more DESERVING than YOU.

You cannot seem to grasp a simple concept MOST DO NOT CARE give them mounts armor sets and more.

The issue is 2-3 fold it seens

One is lore the lore gated here is important to many

The second is cosmetics we just want to look pretty.

The third is those who want to use it to show off

Also lfr woukd ideally take 2-4 times as long as normal to get the items. Guess what I that is a form of work and effort.

Quite frankly I feel like you are acting insanely entitled and just want to show off.

Also maybe if has been said the world boss and mythic ones were not locked or he'll let someone get credit towards it from world bosses and mythic no one would care.

Actually how would you feel is lfr and mythic dropped the items for it?

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look every single player starts with the exact same class/spec weapon. their isnt much varity in line of weapons really. if everyone could easily get the unlocks nobody would stand out and there should be those that stand out. if you want it now then do what has to be done. if not wait till next tier when lfr noobs are burning through EN normal in an hour or 2.

The time you sit in que vs trying to hitup a group in the group finder...

Ehhh actually I find some older items look MUCH better then the artifacts and I transmog them on several characters

And classes like druids especially guardian and feral do not get much choice at all for looks

[A Chozo]

Dude you have no IDEA how much I want white items for looks so many would be GREAT

As for the cosmetics being about showing off to me it is about making the best damn look I can and it this expansion depending on the class(looking at you druid) This is obnoxiously hard to do

But it is so rewarding when you finally get the right armor, weapon and set. I think my brother farmed some cool white Leather set for days on WotLK, but when transmog was announced he couldn't use it. What if I want my Undead Warrior to look like an very beaten knight? No rare itens involved, only the best ones for the look I want.

[Snuffleupagus]

- Cosmetic skin
- Not tied to lore
- Doesn't improve performance
- Specifically stated to be a reward for non-queueable PVE content

"I want to have the rewards without completing the game! Muh entitlement!"

Fucking lol

Stop threatening to leave the game and just leave. Put your money where your mouth is.

[Sorrior]

But it is so rewarding when you finally get the right armor, weapon and set. I think my brother farmed some cool white Leather set for days on WotLK, but when transmog was announced he couldn't use it. What if I want my Undead Warrior to look like an very beaten knight? No rare itens involved, only the best ones for the look I want.

True I can see that but some white and grey weapons have just the right look(I sometimes prefer a less flashy more real or simple appearance) it is VERY hard to find such things past level 12 or 15

Like I loved the Trogg dagger it was a basic stone dagger nothing fancy but perfect for a character that is a more primal or primitive mentality.


As for snuffles....you seriously need to grow up and learn no one's asking for something fir nothing hell plenty have said move it later in the tier so say world bosses can grant it or hell maybe make all bosses from.certain content be they WEEKLY world bosses or say mythic +15 drop it too.

And plenty if raiders have admitted it being in LFR would be good..to say nothing of say a 2-10x lower drop rate thus meaning in LFR it might take you all expansion.

[Idoru]

It's a fucking skin.
For God's Sake.
A. Fucking. Skin.

- Cosmetic skin
- Not tied to lore
- Doesn't improve performance

And yet the "real" raiders need this to be exclusive to them, to show of how cool they are.

Fucking lol

Despite what you claim, you seem to have lost sight of something...

[Sorrior]

I'm not saying that Casuals don't deserve to have things to do in the game, because then why the hell would they play the game? The point is that they don't deserve the same level of reward that people who put time into the game receive.

LFR should be in the game. Should it have an endgame? No. If LFR "pays for itself," then that's all the casuals should receive. A chance to see the content created. Any more than that, borders on entitlement.

Ok what if someone plays 16-18 hours a day but does LFR?

[Floopa]

Ok what if someone plays 16-18 hours a day but does LFR?

this person doesn't exist

fwiw, i think it's completely fine that the skin cannot be achieved via LFR. after all the quest says "100r" (100, raid), LFR is not raiding in the slightest. last time i checked i wasn't able to afk my way through mythic cenarius

[Suggs]

Ok what if someone plays 16-18 hours a day but does LFR?

I wouldnt be surprised if there was more people like this than actual raiders in this playerbase.

[Sorrior]

this person doesn't exist

fwiw, i think it's completely fine that the skin cannot be achieved via LFR. after all the quest says "100r" (100, raid), LFR is not raiding in the slightest. last time i checked i wasn't able to afk my way through mythic cenarius

YO been that guy