Tanks/healers - What would it take to get you to run multiple PuG mythics? (+0)

[Toybox]

How about people realizing that those roles exist? Any hybrid class can either tank or heal. What class does OP play?

Prot Warrior main, Guardian Druid (resto OS), & Brewmaster Monk (MW OS). I don't PuG anything, though... Well, I did do a few hundred heroics before raids opened to get runes, but yeah, I'd need more incentive than that for mythic.

I'm the first person to call for the hybrids complaining about this to take matters into their own hands. If you're playing a class that can manage either 2 or 3 roles, you're complaints are nowhere near as valid to me. Nothing but sympathy for Mages, Warlocks, Rogues, & Hunters, though.

[thunderdragon2]

Same thing here. Just yesterday joined a group for mythic Maw of Souls. First comment was the healer asking if everyone was okay with running through the trash dying, him ankhing and rezzing us to, "save time." We said no, and then he threw a fit cause we did 2 extra pulls and a miniboss for a world quest worth 700g and, for me, 900 AP. Claimed we were "wasting his valuable time."

completly agree abd its anoying as hell, logged my tank to be nice anbd help a grp of randoms doing a random mythic they were hapy after waitinf 2 5 mins to see me queu but the healer was very pushy and want the dungeon done fast...i hate ppl like that just as much as i hate the elitst jerks this game has

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How about people realizing that those roles exist? Any hybrid class can either tank or heal. What class does OP play?

i used to play a reshammy as main but after doing it bc through cata i hate it and find it boring now, i got a tank alt for that, i dont think ill go back to resto as i nolonger enjoy healing

[Fistfury]

I do it occasionally on my 855 Hpal - I did a few last night - I do it because no one in my guild was available. I'd rather hit myself over the head with a blunt object if I had a choice. It's awful. DPS face pulling 3-4 packs at a time - then while you're rezzing their dumb a$$ after blowing all of your CD's and almost going OOM - the even dumber tank runs off again and pulls 2 more packs.

[theostrichsays]

Honestly I likely wouldn't tank multiple complete PUG groups for Mythics.

But I do help people I do other content with, and honestly that is the only way to get me personally to do them. One of my random arena partners I met and que up with from time to time, or somebody I run random bg, or rbgs with needs help or maybe one of his guildies do, I'll run them to be a bro. But me +4 complete strangers, there are no rewards minus a increased chance of Invincible (500+kills LK) that would get me to.

Also "ELITE" players chilling the eff out sometimes might help, by elite I mean that guy who is 4 bosses into Heroic with his guild, and is "obviously" a top 1 percenter if it wasn't for wanting a relaxed raid schedule and us just being more bads for him to carry. I've had so many delusional jack asses in runs like that...

[spiritsurge]

It'd take some damn good rewards for me to heal multiple mythic pug runs. I'm just whining but mythics with pugs is actually the worst experience i've ever had in the years i've been playing this game. There's no timer like Mythic+ so it's not so bad but i'm just flat out in no mood to heal randoms in mythic anymore. This could entirely just be biased but I feel like the only people who are really punished in Mythics are the healers, pug dps don't actually care if they die or stand in bad stuff and the tanks don't necessarily have it easy but I feel like they don't actually get punished for their screw ups often because the healers haul ass to save them.

I've seen it mentioned in other threads but I would really like to see more abilities in dungeons that reduce a player's damage for getting hit/standing in stuff. Something to actually make dps give a shit about mechanics.

[davesurfer]

Here is a thought, let tanks/heals get bribe bags even if the queue together. I tank and my wife heals. We would even do heroics as a team for bribe bags. If you put it in mythics +0 we would do it. All we like to do is raid and run dungeons.

Or another thought is make more WQ for dungeons and make some of them Mythic only. We do the Mythic quests from the follower missions even if we cleared it.

We hate the no reward at all for Mythics after you run one, after all Mythics are the old heroics

Edit: didn't wrath have daily heroics?

[slalmon]

The biggest problem I see with base Mythics as a tank is after M+ came out there became no point. I think I have done 4 base mythics since M+ release and it was purely for quests or achievements.

I mean the CURRENT daily heroic isn't even worth my time over pugging M+ dungeons just from an AP standpoint, let alone taking loot into consideration. So even if you offered me literally double what the current daily heroic offers to run a mythic dungeon each day I am not even sure I would run any normal mythics still. Lets not even consider people with less playtime then me who are logging in to do at most 1-2 dungeon runs per day. I mean as a tank doing that would you rather get a bunch of AP or get similar AP, way better items, and a chance to increase your weekly M+ cap. The real problem is how you offer enough as an incentive without breaking the system.

I mean for me to consider running normal mythics I would need to be guaranteed at least the same AP as running a +5/6 just from an AP standpoint and if thats it with the heroic bag, I'm still out just because of loot considerations. So you would need to offer like 2 bribe bags and 3 of the AP items that drop from a +5/+6 for me to even consider it MAYBE worth my time as I am loosing out on the higher base ilvl and will realistically have a much shitter group on average.

And this right here folks is why Mythics are a big fat FAIL. You will see regular Mythics in the auto-matchmaker (and I bet really soon). There is no way the player base can jump from heroics to +8/+10 (think next raid time frame) that is going to be required by LFG groups as a base. LFG pugs are an infinitely scaling group of folks, as soon as they can get 880ilvl people in 10 minutes, boom everything will be 880. But WQ are going to have to scale up with the next raid tier to be above LFR, but heroics won't scale (at least it doesn't look like they will, unless of course new raid tier ALL loot in the game auto-scales but I doubt it works that way) so people will abandon heroics as they won't be worth it, regular mythics will be pointless even if they loot scale (assuming no auto-grouping) and the next jump will be +10 minimum or even higher (we already have people doing +15...)

... how the hell is this all going to work out??

It really sucks to because they have created so many tiers of difficultly but they left the entrance exams up to other players.

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Maybe just do away with boss drops altogether in Mythic, even Mythic 0. Mythic 0 = 2 chests at the end every time, no timer. Take Black Rook Hold as an example. I need that trinket from the first boss. A lot of healers do. I would run BRH 24/7 if I had a chance to get that trinket at the end. At the same time I'm really not a fan of +2 and beyond, because I'm not a fan of timed runs.

There's another problem this would solve. I notice some BRH groups looking for a healer already have the first boss down, including one I accidentally joined and had to awkwardly bail on. If people had to wait until the end of the run to get their loot you wouldn't have people bailing as soon as the boss they wanted was dead.

And I bet when they add it to the auto-group finder this is exactly how the loot will work... plus it keeps people around for the whole dungeon like you say, very important to a good pug.

[dexx]

As it is now, with a decent group, 5 mans still take 15-20 miuntes, even higher mythic+s take this long....Are you seriously saying that a 15-20 min dungeon takes too long?

Thats just it. Your typical pug is not a decent group. It takes 40+ minutes. Most of which is on trash. A 15-20 minute dungeon would be ideal.

[4dahorde]

Thats just it. Your typical pug is not a decent group. It takes 40+ minutes. Most of which is on trash. A 15-20 minute dungeon would be ideal.

And by changing things to match shitty players only makes them a 5 minute dungeon for decent groups.

At some point people are going to have to start learning to play this game for what it is, and stop having Blizzard dumb everything down to the point of absurdly easier content then what we have now. Removing trash to make shitty players feel like they are accomplishing something is NOT the way to fix this problem..people being bad at a video game is the problem.

According to your logic, they need to make the game even easier because people suck at mechanics/playing, instead of people getting better which would solve ALOT more problems. Again, trash and the amount of it, is not the problem here..the problem is, people suck at doing more than standing still pressing 3 dps buttons..making less trash will not fix that problem.

Leave things the way they are..and people who suck will either get better at the game, or will never get into groups. Either way, the rest of us win. FFS stop expecting Blizzard to cater the game around shitty players by making things even more stupid easy/faster.

[Auxora]

I don't mind healing mythics with a pug group. They are cake if the group is 845 or higher unless the players are just awful. But most tend to go ok, and if someone is a jerk just ignore them and get through the run.

The issue for me more is just the low rewards currently with mythics regardless of a guild or pug run. Back in wod there was a lot more incentive it felt like to run mythics for valor or for a chance at the heirloom trinkets, even if you didn't need the gear. I can earn AP way faster doing wq's than mythics, so that's not much of an incentive. And there isn't any other reward like a rare chance at heirlooms or getting valor like wod mythics had. If you're 850 doing mythics you basically playing for chaos crystals or hoping for a miracle tf roll on a piece. Or I guess for a .00001% chance for a legendary. That's so rare though (I've never even had one drop in a group I was in, a couple skins but no legendary pieces) that it's really grasping to spend time doing a mythic run for a lottery ticket.

[Scrysis]

Maybe something like give them 1 free coin only usable inside the dungeon, so they have 1 shot at loot from 1 boss. What you suggested is vastly OP and would make tanks and healers gear up ridiculously fast.

300 AP, 2k, 4-10 runes, and even that's stretching it a bit far.

As someone who plays both a tank and a healer: The current system is fine. We just need some of the DPS players to consider doing either of the more important roles and it'll be fine.

DPS players won't swap over to those roles. If they were inclined to do it at all, we wouldn't have this discussion.


I play heals/tank. I'm not going to have issues looking for a group to begin with, which means I'm going to gear up faster than pug dps regardless of extra coins or bonus rolls, etc. Even with my crappy luck on drops.

I'd go for a goody bag with Artifact Power tokens, rep tokens, nice chunks of gold, flasks, increased chance at mounts, etc. Basically, if you want me to pug a dungeon that may or may not subject me to abuse, I'd at least like to get compensation for the time that I'd otherwise be using for world quests. Otherwise, once I've done my mythics, there is absolutely ZERO incentive for me to go back into those dungeons. Especially when I've run my mythics with guildmates already.

[Stabatya]

Oddly enough, the "chance" of receiving warforged/titanforged loot has not been enough incentive to get me in mythic pugs. It was a nice try and if they hadnt stealth nerfed the proc rate a week into the expac it might have worked. As it is right now, there is very little point, the chance of an upgrade is so minimal.

What would it take to run mythic pugs? Uhh, the obvious answer right now would be flasks/pots but it would have to be a substantial amount. Im talking atleast 5 flasks or 10 pots, gold to cover repairs and then some. This is a temporary solution though, once the price of pots/flasks go down itll be pointless to continue running them because id rather pay a couple hundred gold for a flask than run mythic dungeons with a pug.

The artifact system has made dual speccing a much more daunting prospect and its showing, tanks and healers are at all time low levels, we cant even get enough tanks in guild to support the number of dps wanting mythic+ runs...

[Dsc]

I'm a healer and more or less outgear most of the non+ Mythics. I run em anyway, even with groupss klooking for just 840 or patience please learning" as long as they are playing decently and not dicks I don't mind a wipe. I've had more fun doing a bit of those right now than the "go go M+4 chest" ones. ( I do those too.)

A little AP, chance for an upgrade or Legendary, and enjoying myself with decent folks doing the same is satisfactory.

I'd NEVER use a LFD Mythic finder tool. that system is too broken, and I run into groups barely at 810 trying to play like they are 875 pulling all of DHT for example.

The mindset that goes with the entitlement tool is disastrous. an honest, group finder group who reminds me of the old days of killing TBC heroics in Trade Chat, that I can work with and do.

[Temp name]

DPS players won't swap over to those roles. If they were inclined to do it at all, we wouldn't have this discussion.

But Blizzard needs to find some incentive for them to consider it. Be it a goody bag or whatever. I say that as someone who plays whatever role. My main is dps MS, with a healer OS (but is pretty much the only thing I ever do dungeons in), with my alt being a tank.

But I agree with you, if I'm saved for a dungeon, I sure as hell am not going back (Except for guildies who need a specific item from that dungeon)

[carl812]

Dps have to suck less balls before anything will change. The only people you ever encounter in pug groups are silently retarded dps that never interupts, or barely passable raging trolls who also never stun or interupt. Not worth it.

[fooliuscaesar13]

So, a large portion of the folks screaming for mythics to have their own queue in the dungeon finder seem to forget one little thing: You can only get loot from mythic dungeons once per week. If we currently have...

100 Tanks
100 Healers
5000 DPS

... players wanting to run mythic dungeons each day, then it doesn't matter if there's a group finder or not - Unless those tanks/healers re-run the content for no reason whatsoever, 4700 DPS players aren't going to get into a dungeon that day.

Obviously, none of us are really doing that... I mean, why would we? I'll rerun for guildies, but that's about it. As I see it, the two options are.

A) Allow tanks/healers to loot mythic dungeon bosses multiple times.
This could work. DPS players may not like the idea, but it'd greatly increase their chances of getting a dungeon, so I guess they'll perhaps consider it worthwhile.

B) Call to Arms Satchel AKA Bribe Bag.
Personally, the bag would have to be VASTLY better than the heroic bag for me to entertain the idea of redoing mythics for no loot. Perhaps for 10k AP, 5k gold, and 10+ runes a pop, it'd prove popular enough to get tanks interested in running multiples, or maybe even get some hybrids playing tanks/healers for that content.

Any other ideas? What would it take for you to re-run mythic dungeons for PuGs?

As a healer, the only requirement that I would have is "don't stand in the fucking fire / tunnel vision your the mob you're attacking". Fo' srs - I don't need a digital bribe, I need people in the group actively trying to not fkn die. Interrupts are nice as well, and a bit of CC to make life easier for everyone.
With guildies, it's rarely an issue. With a pug via General Chat / in-game group tool...fuck almighty it was a nightmare. I'm ok with mistakes...but getting hit time and again because you're just standing in shit is annoying and not worth my time and even on mythic +0 it can be punishing.

[Glorious Leader]

Good dps

/10

[Deleted]

If healers and tanks got extra loot, they'd just go with their guilds. No one will "do it for poor DPSers out there". xD

[Deleted]

Good dps

/10

This so much. I despise running heroics with pugs because the quality of DPS in them is laughable at best. Now having a Mythic dungeon group with the same equally bad DPS in them? Hello no. I can't even stomach running Heroic for the daily AP reward anymore because of the amount of just bad players expecting to be carried through heroic. A 825 rogue who was doing 30k AOE DPS for example.

[Glorious Leader]

This so much. I despise running heroics with pugs because the quality of DPS in them is laughable at best. Now having a Mythic dungeon group with the same equally bad DPS in them? Hello no. I can't even stomach running Heroic for the daily AP reward anymore because of the amount of just bad players expecting to be carried through heroic. A 825 rogue who was doing 30k AOE DPS for example.

And the thing about mythics is that you cant really bail them out as a healer. Stuff needs to die fast.