I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[caervek]

I wouldnt be surprised if there was more people like this than actual raiders in this playerbase.

There are, LFR only players outnumber normal mode raiders >2:1

[Deleted]

I enjoy alts and was in a raiding guild thay server swapped when I was off.

I liked LFR and was one reason I came back(left in panderia wardrobe was another reason) I prefer to be more casual I have my own goals and quite frankly the raid or die mentality as wrll as communities toxic attitude is one of the reasons I left...some people's reactions here show it really is still too common.

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Orrrrrr maybe I prefer LFR to normal due to it being more comfortable and me playing to relax rather then raid or die

Yeah Cuz normal is RAID OR DIE! Dafuq

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And mounts, titles and gear isn't enough.



In your own words, it's a skin that doesn't improve performance.




The fact that all you see is another whine post is extremely telling.

Wich mean LFR Studs doesent need it for progress.

[Deleted]

If you can successfully complete a Mythic +15, then Normal EN is a fucking cakewalk.

We all do things in this game we don't like, but we have to do them. The problem is when people can't do these things. What you're suggesting is based on desire alone, and that is not something good enough to base game design on.

Organizing 5 people is not the same as organizing 10-20 people for 9 weeks or more. It's not the matter of skill, but of the availability of people with enough skill and the same time frame to play.

Wake up, there are not that many people that want to raid. There is a reason why games with small groups are that much more successful. Large raids are only on life support by LFR and zealots like you.

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What is "Raid or die"? Especially in Legion, when one can get so good gear from WQ, M+ and totally at random that raid gear isn't even an upgrade for him?

I really don't get it. Aside of the misleading nature of this quest, there is nothing wrong with a reward tied to a raid. It's a cosmetic skin. The same cosmetic skin, in fact, as the one you get from PvP. And I don't see anyone crying about being forced to PvP.

"Raid or die" does not exist. Want an artifact skin? Then go raid. Simple as that. If getting into a normal raid group, which offers a nice relaxed run with better rewards and more positive community is too much, well then, I guess you don't really want this artifact skin enough. The same way I'm not going for the PvP Prestige one.

Then switch this artifact skin from the locking position with the world bosses requirement, and the problem is solved. This is the skin with the least organisational effort required to achieve it, and it should be then the one which unlocks the other skins in this tier. I would not mind the current setup if these two were switched. I know I will kill all world bosses ASAP. But I know that I will probably never PUG enough EN raids to get the stupid 30 shards.

[bufferunderrun]

What is "Raid or die"? Especially in Legion, when one can get so good gear from WQ, M+ and totally at random that raid gear isn't even an upgrade for him?

I really don't get it. Aside of the misleading nature of this quest, there is nothing wrong with a reward tied to a raid. It's a cosmetic skin. The same cosmetic skin, in fact, as the one you get from PvP. And I don't see anyone crying about being forced to PvP.

"Raid or die" does not exist. Want an artifact skin? Then go raid. Simple as that. If getting into a normal raid group, which offers a nice relaxed run with better rewards and more positive community is too much, well then, I guess you don't really want this artifact skin enough. The same way I'm not going for the PvP Prestige one.

you log at any hour of the day fire the queue and keep doing our business, the system automatically assemble the raid without any need to pay attention, you get teleported from the spot were you were directly into the raid, no stress hearing peoples swearing on TS/VEntrilo, the guy who go afk, the guy who it's baby woke up and need to go, dramas lamas, drama queens over loot etc.
Something go wrong and some bail the group, no problem the system fill the spots back in few minutes and teleport those replacements back in. then once you are done it teleport you back to our original spot.
lfr is a god sent addiction that save peoples lot of stress.

[Okacz]

you log at any hour of the day fire the queue and keep doing our business, the system automatically assemble the raid without any need to pay attention, you get teleported from the spot were you were directly into the raid, no stress hearing peoples swearing on TS/VEntrilo, the guy who go afk, the guy who it's baby woke up and need to go, dramas lamas, drama queens over loot etc.
Something go wrong and some bail the group, no problem the system fill the spots back in few minutes and teleport those replacements back in. then once you are done it teleport you back to our original spot.
lfr is a god sent addiction that save peoples lot of stress.

For a second there I thought that "addiction" might not have been a typo. Oh well.

My opinion is a bit jaded, since I dislike LFR, but I gotta agree that it's actually good for many players - I even tend to do it on alts sometimes for quick gear. But at the same time, as in any other game, going the extra mile should be rewarded. The artifact skin is there for the taking, it's Blizzards way of saying "okay guys, you do the LFR, but here's a deal - try out the normal mode. It's a bit harder and requires organised group, but gives you better gear and is probably more fun. You know what - here's a deal, try it out and get a cool new skin!". It's entirely up to you if you want it or not.

[Sorrior]

Yeah Cuz normal is RAID OR DIE! Dafuq

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Wich mean LFR Studs doesent need it for progress.

No but alot of players have that mentality

[Deleted]

No but alot of players have that mentality

Normal Raiding have never been this easy.
On a side not, ont thing that is shit with this system is that you might have to pugg several normals for many months.
wich is kinda bad if you dont like.

[bufferunderrun]

For a second there I thought that "addiction" might not have been a typo. Oh well.

My opinion is a bit jaded, since I dislike LFR, but I gotta agree that it's actually good for many players - I even tend to do it on alts sometimes for quick gear. But at the same time, as in any other game, going the extra mile should be rewarded. The artifact skin is there for the taking, it's Blizzards way of saying "okay guys, you do the LFR, but here's a deal - try out the normal mode. It's a bit harder and requires organised group, but gives you better gear and is probably more fun. You know what - here's a deal, try it out and get a cool new skin!". It's entirely up to you if you want it or not.

i don't really care about the skin, if you want to know that shitty gun on my hunter has been transmogged with the illidan bow (just to shit xe'ra in the face), the problem is that since DS blizzard had not added anything cool in lfr (and eve removed tier and trinket in wod).

[Choda]

What the fuck are you blithering about? If raiding was so horrendously terrible, why are casuals so demanding of LFR rewards? "Please Blizzard, I hate raiding but want the raid quests!"

The skin is a reward for non-queueable content. Get over yourself.

Until you start complaining about PvP skins and mounts, you're just an entitled twit. And even when you start complaining about that, it only takes you from entitled twit to entitled twit who wants participation rewards for everything. The great lie that your parents and teachers fed you was that it's only important that you tried. Sorry, not how it works.

Not how human nature works.

Also, if you LFR heroes actually remembered Cata correctly, you'd note that Cata followed the following stages:

- Cata launch (late 2010)
- QQ on forums about Heroic difficulty
- Raids open
- QQ on forums about raid difficulty
- Blizzard announces sweeping nerfs to content (start of 2011) and trivialise almost all content
- Subs magically start their decline, only stabilising for new raid tiers for some unknown mystery reason that clearly has nothing to do with raids

The only thing canceeous is YOU and people like you. There are cosmetic rewards gated behing non-queueable PVE. Participate or shut the hell up.

Tbh the sub decline was the large number of people starting WoW off the back of Frozen Throne leaving after... WotLK. No great mystery there. That was always going to happen, and yet people were too fucking stupid to realise it and panicked about the sky falling instead.

I love you.

[Cernunnos]

Why couldnt the quest be doable in all difficulties. And you get 1 colour for LFR, 1 for normal 1 for heroic and 1 for mythic. Each tier of skins have four colour variants. There is 4 different versions of a raid. Seems logical enough I would have thought.

But oh well.

[BreathTaker]

But would opening up 1 artifat skin in LFR really change anything for you? I like the way you play, its the way which all people should play, playing the content they like and unsubbing when they are done with that content. But having to do LFR 1 hour a week does not really seem like a reason for you to stay subbed.

Also, if you remove all reward from raiding, then why should people even raid? It is content which requires work, both in-game and often outside of the game. It also requires quite a lot of dedication, since you will often find alot more failures in raiding then the rest of the game. So there has to be an equal reward for the hard work being put into the content and gear/item lvl upgrades is simply not enough.

The large reason why many people does not go into mythic raiding, is because the reward for clearing an instance is gone, since you have to clear a raid on heroic before going into mythic. So in mythic, the only reward is the gear and a few unique gear pieces, which is simply not enough for people to that extra mile. If there was not a mount reward from killing Archimonde HC, then i would bet that the number of people who have cleared that place, would be much lower.

So the extra reward is needed. I would have understod the quest alot more, if it was actually only completable in heroic and mythic, but having it in normal is okay too

I agree, but for me there's one thing: you speak of 1 artifact skin than opens via quest in raid which cannot be done in LFR.
From my point of view - i absoluttely have no idea what the quest will reward me with. I don't need the extra artifact skin (i transmog to some wotlk stuff anyway).
I just feel like i'm doing a very important (main) questline and then my progress hits a wall. I don't know if it's the last quest in this chain, or if there's hundreds more left, but the story just breaks! I want to complete the story. Let the artifact skin or whatever the awesome reward there is drop from the last boss in mythic or normal for those who have already completed this quest, but let me complete the quest at least in LFR! I want to see how it ends, to see kadgar or whoever i help happy and maybe send me to more quests.
Was it not all the LFR was about? To see the content in it's entirety, just get less shiny rewards than those who do it in harder difficulties?

[Choda]

For 12 years now, everything gated behind end-game content that only raiders have access to has caused bad players to froth at their mouths and cry until the perk in question is handed to them. And lo' and behold, now, with the easiest tier of raiding I have ever seen in my life, the whining is worse than it's ever been. It's almost as if giving the scum of the playerbase any attention only makes them want even more handouts... hmm...

[K4sk]

you log at any hour of the day fire the queue and keep doing our business, the system automatically assemble the raid without any need to pay attention, you get teleported from the spot were you were directly into the raid, no stress hearing peoples swearing on TS/VEntrilo, the guy who go afk, the guy who it's baby woke up and need to go, dramas lamas, drama queens over loot etc.
Something go wrong and some bail the group, no problem the system fill the spots back in few minutes and teleport those replacements back in. then once you are done it teleport you back to our original spot.
lfr is a god sent addiction that save peoples lot of stress.

Cheers, you just explained why LFR is a horrible system that should be removed.
You put in zero effort and get rewarded.
Just hit that signup button, watch how the boss falls over despite 99% of the raid having zero clue how to play their class or do the encounter, and then get loot.

You might as well get rewarded a cache upon your weekly login, where a cinematic plays and you have a random chance of getting loot from that box.
It's pretty close to how LFR is.

[bufferunderrun]

Cheers, you just explained why LFR is a horrible system that should be removed.
You put in zero effort and get rewarded.
Just hit that signup button, watch how the boss falls over despite 99% of the raid having zero clue how to play their class or do the encounter, and then get loot.

You might as well get rewarded a cache upon your weekly login, where a cinematic plays and you have a random chance of getting loot from that box.
It's pretty close to how LFR is.

nope what lfr really removed is all the shit created by players, it fix the infamous toxicity of wow community, who care if a dumb kid is swearing in chat? vote kick and gg.

[Icaras]

Selective memory is a funny thing. Snuffleupagus seems to think in cata subs went down because of nerfs. Whereas I recall people bailing because the heroics were a massive roadblock and were not how many people wanted or expected them to be. \
Raid being nerfed weren't that much of a factor, besides a few "I want to get it done pre nerf!" whinings.

Those of us that do LFR don't think "raiding is horrendously terrible" (The people that think that are very likely to do no raiding at all, being they hate it, ya know?), we don't want to be committed to a raid team (For example of myself. Been there, done that. Now prefer to have full control over when I do something)
People also don't want to deal with pugging. Yes yes, some people can pug easily , but not everyone has confidence. And for every person that claims they pug easily, there are other that face a night of being told "no".

And you know what can't say no? LFR. LFR can't say no. I can do LFR when I want, how I want. LFR is what I want. I'm not saying to take things away from normal/heroic/mythic raiders...but as an LFR raider (Sorry haters, but that's what I am when I do LFR. looking for RAID and all)...why take things away from me?

[K4sk]

nope what lfr really removed is all the shit created by players, it fix the infamous toxicity of wow community, who care if a dumb kid is swearing in chat? vote kick and gg.

It removed all sense of commitment, having to put in effort and community, that's what it did.
By commitment I don't mean having to raid 3x4 hours a week, but not having to worry about creating a group, recruiting or being recruited is terrible.
LFR shouldn't exist, but the LFG tool should be kept. That's basically what Ghostcrawler said as well, he admitted that LFR is one of the biggest mistakes ever done to WoW.

[bufferunderrun]

It removed all sense of commitment, having to put in effort and community, that's what it did.
By commitment I don't mean having to raid 3x4 hours a week, but not having to worry about creating a group, recruiting or being recruited is terrible.
LFR shouldn't exist, but the LFG tool should be kept. That's basically what Ghostcrawler said as well, he admitted that LFR is one of the biggest mistakes ever done to WoW.

why? it's like telling peoples that the old way of using paper maps and asking stranger is better than using a gps navigator; for year peoples were forced to swallow all the crap this community produced, now there is a way to avoid it and that is lfr, if you want to blame someone blame peoples with shitty attitudes.
Also why you care? blizzard offer both method.

[K4sk]

why? it's like telling peoples that the old way of using paper maps and asking stranger is better than using a gps navigator; for year peoples were forced to swallow all the crap this community produced, now there is a way to avoid it and that is lfr, if you want to blame someone blame peoples with shitty attitudes.
Also why you care? blizzard offer both method.

Not really, at all.

At work I have colleagues that demand the same salary as me, yet they don't want to put in the extra necessary education, they'd rather spend their friday/weekend drinking or hanging out with friends and family etc.
If you don't put in the effort, you can't have a bite of the cake, pretty simple.

There's already dumped down heroic dungeons (basically old normal dungeons) and world quests that you solo players can do.
If you truly want to raid and get that loot, you should at least put in the effort to learn your class just somewhat and sign up for the raids in the LFG tool. Being able to do nothing (signup for LFR) and still having a bite of the cake (raid loot) is just dumb.

Why do you even play WoW when you have no interest in playing with others? It's an MMO after all, not some single player game. LFR is literally single player - You don't talk to anybody at all, you just go in and do your thing (usually afk), get rewarded and then fuck off without communicating with other people.

[bufferunderrun]

Not really, at all.

At work I have colleagues that demand the same salary as me, yet they don't want to put in the extra necessary education, they'd rather spend their friday/weekend drinking or hanging out with friends and family etc.
If you don't put in the effort, you can't have a bite of the cake, pretty simple.

There's already dumped down heroic dungeons (basically old normal dungeons) and world quests that you solo players can do.
If you truly want to raid and get that loot, you should at least put in the effort to learn your class just somewhat and sign up for the raids in the LFG tool. Being able to do nothing (signup for LFR) and still having a bite of the cake (raid loot) is just dumb.

again you are assuming that just because i use lfr i'm unable to play my class correctly, fyi i raided since early tbc and have seen everything up to cho'gall and nefarian heroic. And again i repeat my question why you care? Blizzard still supporting both playstyle.

[K4sk]

again you are assuming that just because i use lfr i'm unable to play my class correctly, fyi i raided since early tbc and have seen everything up to cho'gall and nefarian heroic. And again i repeat my question why you care? Blizzard still supporting both playstyle.

I care because it ruins the game. It makes people lazy and somehow make them entitled (see the OP of this thread) to shit they simply aren't. There should be a drive to improve, become better and reach for other parts of the game. It's really not THAT hard to pug normal mode, if you truly want to get the achievements, loot or explore the story.

But I'm glad that the ilvl of the LFR tool is so low that it's basically useless for the majority of players. Mythics and mythic+ are luckily way better, and I hope they continue this trend. Being able to do the legendary chain in LFR in the previous expansions was a big mistake, and luckily they've realised that now.