[Veng] How would you buff us?

[Lucrece]

Buff? Veng is going to be one of the strongest tanks when sets are out if you can get ur hands on the legendary ring, the set basically allows you to have 100% uptime on demon spikes and the ring gives you perma 15% leech

lol, as if being balanced around a specific legendary is a reasonable thing to suggest. Some people don't even have a legendary, or get one of the crappy "you gain haste when you cc a mob" type out of the general category.

Saying a tank is fine with a specific legendary is retarded.

[Malakkar]

If we don't want to get hit with the nerf bat later, we only need a couple buffs. Also, keep in mind that we're ranking KRSI wise (no, I know it's not a perfect metric but it works fine for Demon Hunters and if everyone is being compared by it, on average it will give you decent results to look at) pretty well recently - Demon Hunter just requires more fight knowledge. We're in the top 3 tanks for every fight, being number 2 on several and number 1 on dragons.
For buffs, I think tune Demonic Wards a little - bring it up to 150% armor and 50% stamina from 120% and 45%. Increase mastery scaling back to 1.0 from previous nerfed .75 and prior 1.5, and we'll be in a good spot. For talents, if they aren't going to make things baseline, increase Soul Barrier absorb by 20% - it's actually already a good talent, just the Last Resort bandwagoning is strong. By GCD for mitigation, it's a better usage of a GCD than soul cleave by a fucking mile.

[hairspray]

I'd take a buff to demonic wards, 160% armor + 55% stamina (up from 120% and 45%) as our main issue is the crazy damage intake when demon spikes are down.

Also the 50 percent leech in meta should be made baseline.

If they felt they had to nerf DS to a 5 sec duration instead of 6 to make up for the buff I'd be fine with that.

[Valoran]

1. Soul Barrier baseline 30 pain off the GCD.

2. Felblade baseline.

3. New talent in place of Felblade reducing the cooldown of Empower Wards to 15 seconds, and shatters a lesser soul from the caster if you are hit by magic damage.

4. Soul Rending passive baseline.

5. Improved Soul Barrier talent (Soul Blockade) - increase duration to 10 seconds, removes pain cost, increases damage absorbed.

- - - Updated - - -

Change how mastery works. Similar to how bears get stam that scales with mastery, we should get versatility that scales with mastery.

Versatility makes everything we do better. It increases our damage done = increased fire damage = increased healing. Increases healing done = increases all the healing we do. Flat damage reduction.

Change demon spikes to a flat 30% physical damage reduction w/parry.

We get +% versatility with mastery.

[Soisoisoi]

Nobody fucking wants downtime.

So much this. Especially as a Tank.

[Tech614]

1. Soul Barrier baseline 30 pain off the GCD.

2. Felblade baseline.

3. New talent in place of Felblade reducing the cooldown of Empower Wards to 15 seconds, and shatters a lesser soul from the caster if you are hit by magic damage.

4. Soul Rending passive baseline.

5. Improved Soul Barrier talent (Soul Blockade) - increase duration to 10 seconds, removes pain cost, increases damage absorbed.

- - - Updated - - -

Change how mastery works. Similar to how bears get stam that scales with mastery, we should get versatility that scales with mastery.

Versatility makes everything we do better. It increases our damage done = increased fire damage = increased healing. Increases healing done = increases all the healing we do. Flat damage reduction.

Change demon spikes to a flat 30% physical damage reduction w/parry.

We get +% versatility with mastery.

/facepalm.

So have a secondary stat that gives us a secondary stat? Sounds amaze.

[Vanos27]

All these people asking for more baseline abilities...

I'm literally out of comfortable keybinds as it is.

[Valoran]

/facepalm.

So have a secondary stat that gives us a secondary stat? Sounds amaze.

Versatility is freaking awesome for DH, though. I have 20%, and I want 40%. I feel way more stable in Mythic 5+ and higher with high versatility. Say what you will, but versatility is badass, and I want as much as I can get.

[Sliske]

1. Soul Barrier changed to: Absorbed souls now shield you for (the heal amount) In a nutshell makes us able to keep using Soul Cleave as a heal with the absorbed souls now shielding rather than healing for more. The way soul barrier is right now is so fucking clunky it actually makes me want to vomit.

2. Tattoos buffed to higher magic dmg reduction. I can't believe this isn't even the case. We have no real shield, we have a shortish damage reduction but outside of that we just get savaged.

3. Sigil of Chains needs something done to it, Its so terrible compared to mass grip. If you want to homogenize that DK spell, do it. Don't give us some pre cum version of it.

4. In a world of mythic+ spam, you either have a stun or you have incredible dps. We have neither. Give us one or the other.

[aikanaro]

1. Soul Barrier changed to: Absorbed souls now shield you for (the heal amount) In a nutshell makes us able to keep using Soul Cleave as a heal with the absorbed souls now shielding rather than healing for more. The way soul barrier is right now is so fucking clunky it actually makes me want to vomit.

2. Tattoos buffed to higher magic dmg reduction. I can't believe this isn't even the case. We have no real shield, we have a shortish damage reduction but outside of that we just get savaged.

3. Sigil of Chains needs something done to it, Its so terrible compared to mass grip. If you want to homogenize that DK spell, do it. Don't give us some pre cum version of it.

4. In a world of mythic+ spam, you either have a stun or you have incredible dps. We have neither. Give us one or the other.

Um the sohls you pick up during soul barrier currently increases the shield AND still heals you also.

[Lyamoorka]

Bring back talent that made soul cleave's overheal to be turned into shield, that's all i want.

[Tech614]

Bring back talent that made soul cleave's overheal to be turned into shield, that's all i want.

This would actually be a nice QoL change, where you wouldn't have to gimp your dps to play properly for survival. I don't think it would break the game, or be a massive buff in anyway but it would make the spec play so much better.

[ShasVa]

This would actually be a nice QoL change, where you wouldn't have to gimp your dps to play properly for survival. I don't think it would break the game, or be a massive buff in anyway but it would make the spec play so much better.

I second this. A talent (Soul Barrier?) that converts over-healing from Sul Cleave into an absorb shield.

[Yorgl]

This suggestion is actually smart. (It's highly debatable we need a buff -I think ppl should focus on learning this new class, to me it sounds like "QQ BrM is squishy" all over again...- and while the points that our talents lack synergy is true, asking "make everything baseline pls" is... er... weird)

The question is : where would it fit ?
Imho, it would be a good idea to place it in the place of nether bond (and either remove this last talent, or include it in the toolkit with some adjustments if needed).
NB is incredibly niche and afaik, LR (or even SB...) is always preferable and the row would have a consistent thing to propose : "Do you want a cheat death [hard content], a conversion overhealing->shield (not-so-threatening content) or a on-demande shield (smoothing) ?
What do you think ?

[Deleted]

Survivability wise I think we are in a good spot, and Druids are the outliers who need a HEAVY nerf. No amount of buffing will bring us to their level without making us ridiculously stupid in the process. Suggestions like baseline Last Resort would be nice, reducing Demon Spikes cd to 14 sec down from 15 sec probably wouldn't hurt either, but at least when it comes to balancing I don't think we need anything major, THEY do.

DPS-wise we could probably use a +-10% buff in general

[Maethorr]

Honestly, we don't need a huge buff. What we need is a bit of tweaking, mostly it comes down to 2 aspects.

First, we need better mitigation for magic damage. We have the smallest life pool of the tanks while also having the worst mitigation for magic damage. For a class that is supposed to be good at dealing with fel magic I just don't really understand this much. If anything we should be better than the others at dealing with magic damage, not the very worst. Almost every other tanks main form of mitigation works against magic damage, IP, stagger(50% rate), bone shield as well as the better dk healing and shields, bear druids can keep a 30% reduction with 100% uptime as well as the huge life pool. We have a 30% reduction for 6 seconds on a 20 second cooldown. Our magic mitigation is just terrible. It hurts us a lot on anything that has a large amount of constant magic damage.

Second, we need a bit of leveling out and tweaking of our mitigation but not really a big buff. Now I know that the 4 piece from nighthold will actually fix a lot of our problems since it actually both decreases the pain cost of soul cleave and help demon spikes uptime. That is not a good option though, Nighthold is at least 3 months away and we should not be reliant on a tier set to fix problems with the class. We also lack a bit in the major cooldown department as well, our only big cooldown is very lackluster when you compare it to the other tanks cooldowns, we are very much lacking in those ohh shit moments. Usually when something happens on my DH I just have no buttons to push. We are missing out majorly on this aspect, I mean look at survival instincts for a druid, 50% damage reduction on a 3 minute timer with 2 charges compared to metamorphosis, a small heal, max health, and pain generation. Really they need to buff metamorphosis to make it compare to the other tank cooldowns, it probably should have a 20% damage reduction baked into it on top of what it has to be equal to the other classes options. Honestly buff meta and level out our spikes a bit and we would be fine.

The sad thing is we are one of the best tanks when everything is going smooth. If you have good interrupts and everyone is doing what they should DH are actually one of the stronger tanks. You really only notice the drawbacks of the demon hunter during those ohh shit moments and during high magic damage. Outside of those we are actually not in a bad place. The problem is when something goes wrong and the healer gets CCed or a dps takes extra damage on any other tank I always feel like I have plenty of options. I can burn a cooldown and I know I can be fine without the healer for 5 seconds or so. On my demon hunter I just have nothing to give, everything I have outside of meta is part of the standard rotation for the most part. Meta while strong often is very situational, First you have to have soul rending talented or it's just about useless and then you also are reliant on doing damage to stay alive, it works great against a group of mob where you can get some decent cleave healing but is very subpar on bosses.

[pmkaboo]

last resort and soul rending baseline, soul barrier off gcd

[aikanaro]

I seriously think the main problem with our class is the soul fragments. Our only baseline spender ability makes us waste them a lot of the time where healing is involved, but we don't want to wait to use the. Because they also proc our artifact abilities so waiting to use soul cleave actually hurts us too. Spirit bomb uses a fragment, doesn't heal when used and doesn't proc artifact traits or talents (ftd). I like the idea of the fragments, but that is where all the lack synergy of this spec is at. They seriously need brink back the absorb on overhead for the souls. I believe that would fix a lot of the issues with the soul fragments. You would want to hit soul cleave at 80 every single time without worrying about wasting the heals. They removed it in testing then buffed the hp and armor, needed the hp and armor back down and never compensated for it in a meaningful way.

[JoshuaNLG]

The overhealing from Soul cleave being turned into an Absorb is a nice suggestion as some people have mentioned already, the only thing i would tweak is it should be baseline, not a talent.

[StrifesFury]

Buff? Veng is going to be one of the strongest tanks when sets are out if you can get ur hands on the legendary ring, the set basically allows you to have 100% uptime on demon spikes and the ring gives you perma 15% leech

That's a big if, on getting the ring or not. Sets are not out yet - I'll have to look at them and get back to you.