Need opinions: Try disc or reroll

[Caliph]

I don't understand the problem. I play holy priest 867 item level 7/7HC 1/7M atm and I beat our guilds two resto druids and holy paladin with similar gear on almost every fight. Survivability in M+ can be real annoying but on the other hand the ability to heal for ½ minute after dying allows some self sacrifice in tough spots that I make good use of. The spider boss in EN is the only boss I feel Holy sucks badly on cause the biggest time of damage is the pushback that makes you take more damage the further away you are, good luck doing any healing while forced to run towards the pushback.

I agree i'm only 846 and doing normal and heroic EN i'm always near the top despite being 10-20 ilvls lower. I abuse aoe healing with sanctify, POE, and DH x 2 every fight. The spider is a pia as you said. I think we're fine but survivability does suck.

[anon5123]

The spider boss in EN is the only boss I feel Holy sucks badly on cause the biggest time of damage is the pushback that makes you take more damage the further away you are, good luck doing any healing while forced to run towards the pushback.

I never really had problems on the spider. You need to stand right up close to it during winds and just keep running forward; you'll take maybe 200k per tick, which is easily healed through Renew and either a healthstone or Serenity or Sanctify.

[spiritsurge]

Just to say something to those who think Disc isn't viable, here are warcraftlogs for the 99th percentile in EN for healing done https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...hps&dataset=99

Just because you're not able to play disc at its fullest doesn't mean it sucks.

[CptEgo]

We have no mobiliy, no proper survival CDs and our talent tree is messed up. I dont want to give up on my mana regen to do more healing with flash heal, or I dont want to give up on my movement speed to have a small self healing CD. Those tiers must be seperated from each other. Most of our mastery is over healing, our hot is useless, our massive CD is very heavy (you cant cast divine hymn while walking, it is not instant and still heals less than other massive healing CDs like totems, tranq or revival). My guild only progresses with me cause we've been playing since a long while and we are all friends IRL, otherwise they never would bring a holy priest to their mythic progress.

You're wrong and your friends are wrong. The Holy toolkit is amazing, and you're in for grave disappointment if you think rerolling is going to give you all the things you want. I've been trying out a Holy Paladin, and holy shits was that a horrible experience. I went right back to my amazing priest

[Desma]

It's kind of funny seeing how the people that are insisting on playing discipline priest over anything else cry louder than anyone else. If someone arguments well how discipline is there not on par with other healers, that person gets flamed as a shit player who does not know how to play discipline, or in the worst case, anything.

Lul.

[PosPosPos]

It's kind of funny seeing how the people that are insisting on playing discipline priest over anything else cry louder than anyone else. If someone arguments well how discipline is there not on par with other healers, that person gets flamed as a shit player who does not know how to play discipline, or in the worst case, anything.

Lul.

It's funny, because disc priest is doing extremely well in mythic. Unless the argument is for Disc to be just outright broken?

[Goshko]

It's funny, because disc priest is doing extremely well in mythic. Unless the argument is for Disc to be just outright broken?

No they are not. There's so few disc logs for Cenarius and Xavius (7 each to be precise) that one (or two as is the case with Cenarius) good log massively skews the numbers. It doesn't help that you intentionally cherry-pick 99% percentile that includes just that one log to make it look better. The second best disc priest on Xavius is 112th for example.

Or did you mean disc priest singular? Because Sups does extremely well yes.

[PosPosPos]

No they are not. There's so few disc logs for Cenarius and Xavius (7 each to be precise) that one (or two as is the case with Cenarius) good log massively skews the numbers. It doesn't help that you intentionally cherry-pick 99% percentile that includes just that one log to make it look better. The second best disc priest on Xavius is 112th for example.

Or did you mean disc priest singular? Because Sups does extremely well yes.

You have to cherry pick 99 percentile healers, because what they are doing is vastly different from all the other idiots spamming shadowmend or goodness knows what instead of properly using PWR.

If you insist on muddying the waters by lumping disc priests who don't even know what they are doing in mythic with the rest of us, then yes, disc is bad, happy?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ng&source=5,21

Let's see here, one disc favors pwr, and the other favors plea spamming, hmm, so hard to tell who's playing correctly and who's not. /s

[Deleted]

So, new stuff for disc for 7.1. Anybody excited with them? I'll confess I'm really not. Wasn't expecting buffs, maybe was hoping for some QoL changes, but what I see is:
- a nerf to the universally picked talent mindbender. We were already not swimming in mana, solace is still bad even buffed.
- a 1 second buff to contrition, a talent nobody ever took. Could be situational good in some fights with constant raid dmg, but we lose more mana from not having PI, and to me it feels like highly prone to overhealing.
- a casts time buff to CoW, another talent nobody took, and it only feels good on niche situations like really needing to increase EHPS of a target, which I doubt will ever be a fight design given moving away from absorbs.

Overall I feel like getting a small nerf in the mana gains (which was already somewhat painful) and buffs on talents we never considered good or at least fun. I find mindbender so good in mythic+ as a strong healing on the move cd, that I don't see myself ditching it. I'll just spam drinks more.

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You have to cherry pick 99 percentile healers, because what they are doing is vastly different from all the other idiots spamming shadowmend or goodness knows what instead of properly using PWR.

If you insist on muddying the waters by lumping disc priests who don't even know what they are doing in mythic with the rest of us, then yes, disc is bad, happy?
/s

While I'm not complaining about disc atm, I think the whole "muddying the waters" issue goes both ways. There's healers that don't know what they are doing of all classes, are you suggesting that a vast majority of idiots chose to roll disc, while all the other classes are rolled only by smart people that are not muddying waters? Or do you think 10 times less people play disc than most other classes because disc is overpowered?
We're not shit, I get it. We can look really good on meters in certain conditions, which seems to involve our guilds healing teams gravitating around our atonement setup, and if they aren't, well, sucks to be us.
I'm certainly not waiting for buffs, I think the spec is viable, but really, the fact that disc priests on top 100 parses are an endangered species spells out the fact the spec is severely underplayed and people don't refuse the play overpowered classes usually. We're in a strange place right now, and it might be exactly where we're meant to be, with special snowflakes playing it, but from there to going "we're overpowered because Sups" is the same as saying "human kind is mostly genious because Einstein".

[PosPosPos]

We're in a strange place right now, and it might be exactly where we're meant to be, with special snowflakes playing it, but from there to going "we're overpowered because Sups" is the same as saying "human kind is mostly genious because Einstein".

Let me stop you right here, because you are essentially saying that it takes a genius to choose their spell usage(PWR to atonement rather than plea or shadowmend spam) properly.

It's exactly like saying it take a genius using Holy Priest to know how to spam Flash Heal instead of Renew.

[Deleted]

Let me stop you right here, because you are essentially saying that it takes a genius to choose their spell usage(PWR to atonement rather than plea or shadowmend spam) properly.

It's exactly like saying it take a genius using Holy Priest to know how to spam Flash Heal instead of Renew.

And I'm pretty sure there's a % of holy priests out there that spam renew and muddle their waters. It's not like only one disc priest out there figured out their Radiance button. Plenty of us use Radiance and are still not rocking meters, from various reasons, so let's not oversimplify things with plea vs radiance.
If you only want to talk about 99%, disc is middle of the pack, but I'm pretty sure that taking the 95% percentiles is a reasonable assumption that those people did idd discover their Radiance button. Statistics show us middle of the pack there overall too, with us leading 3 of the bosses and being absolute bottom on the other 4, even if theoretically ursoc's predictable raidwide dmg looks very well fit for us. On two of those bosses the difference we're behind is significant, but on cenarius/xavius we're so ahead, it makes up.

So lets look at our best bosses - Cenarius and Xavius.
On Cenarius, in the top 20, we have 2 disc priests, 11 resto druids, 4 resto shamans, 2 paladins and 0 holy priests. There's Sups log which has a significant amount more than everybody else, and then a nice low curve down for the next 20 healers. One can commend here that what actually "muddies the waters" is the exceptional parse from Sups, because it's significantly different than everybody else. For the next parses down to 200, there are 6 more disc priests, while all the other classes are more represented. So we have the grand amount of 8 disc priests in 200 healers that killed that boss. While the result surely shows that the spec is viable, it also shows it's severely underplayed, 31 priests prefer playing holy in the same bracket even if they have the option of being op as disc, and the only explanation for it seems to be that they didn't find their radiance buttons.
On Xavius, we have one disc priest in the top 20, and the next one is on 112. Are you going to tell me that nobody else other than Sups discovered their Radiance button there?

I'm not saying we're underpowered. We have our strengths, and we have our weaknesses and my main concern is that we have very little versatility in things we are good at, and it shows on parses where were are either super on some bosses, or abysmal on the others. We are good at burst healing and mediocre at everything else. We're highly dependent both on the fight dmg patters and on our healing teams. As much as I admire the guy and seeing him makes me want to get better, repeating at nausea "Sups could do it, l2p" is not helping anybody. Instead of fapping to Sups' logs, maybe we should be more focused on our own and what is good and bad about the specc - and don't tell me everything is awesome, because I'm not entirely sure you will still be excited to spam Radiance on a timer and press LW 6 months from now. It's a new specc, it needs polishing. It needs more synergy between spells, it needs to have something done about the SM spam in mythic+, it needs maybe a mastery rethinking. I keep hearing that it's got a high skill ceiling, floor and furniture, but honestly, half of that seems to be a case of our team having that floor. There's also something else that bothers me: we used to be a precise healer, one that could save somebody's ass with a shield/penance. Are we not bothered that we lost that?

[Desma]

You have to cherry pick 99 percentile healers, because what they are doing is vastly different from all the other idiots spamming shadowmend or goodness knows what instead of properly using PWR.

If you insist on muddying the waters by lumping disc priests who don't even know what they are doing in mythic with the rest of us, then yes, disc is bad, happy?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ng&source=5,21

Let's see here, one disc favors pwr, and the other favors plea spamming, hmm, so hard to tell who's playing correctly and who's not. /s

You're exactly kind of "discipline priest can't be bad!!! you just suck!!!"-kind of player I was talking about. Please go on. Live in your bubble.

[Scrysis]

So, new stuff for disc for 7.1. Anybody excited with them? I'll confess I'm really not. Wasn't expecting buffs, maybe was hoping for some QoL changes, but what I see is:
- a nerf to the universally picked talent mindbender. We were already not swimming in mana, solace is still bad even buffed.
- a 1 second buff to contrition, a talent nobody ever took. Could be situational good in some fights with constant raid dmg, but we lose more mana from not having PI, and to me it feels like highly prone to overhealing.
- a casts time buff to CoW, another talent nobody took, and it only feels good on niche situations like really needing to increase EHPS of a target, which I doubt will ever be a fight design given moving away from absorbs.

Overall I feel like getting a small nerf in the mana gains (which was already somewhat painful) and buffs on talents we never considered good or at least fun. I find mindbender so good in mythic+ as a strong healing on the move cd, that I don't see myself ditching it. I'll just spam drinks more.

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While I'm not complaining about disc atm, I think the whole "muddying the waters" issue goes both ways. There's healers that don't know what they are doing of all classes, are you suggesting that a vast majority of idiots chose to roll disc, while all the other classes are rolled only by smart people that are not muddying waters? Or do you think 10 times less people play disc than most other classes because disc is overpowered?
We're not shit, I get it. We can look really good on meters in certain conditions, which seems to involve our guilds healing teams gravitating around our atonement setup, and if they aren't, well, sucks to be us.
I'm certainly not waiting for buffs, I think the spec is viable, but really, the fact that disc priests on top 100 parses are an endangered species spells out the fact the spec is severely underplayed and people don't refuse the play overpowered classes usually. We're in a strange place right now, and it might be exactly where we're meant to be, with special snowflakes playing it, but from there to going "we're overpowered because Sups" is the same as saying "human kind is mostly genious because Einstein".

Yeah, Holy got hit with the same kind of thing. A nerf to Divine Favor (2 seconds! ouch!), and then very slight buffs to renew, PoM, and heal (whhaaaaaat?). I think they're trying to tweak the talents to make some of them more appealing, but the super tiny buffs aren't going to do it. Fights are too short right now to support an endurance playstyle, so even encounter design is working against what they want to do.

[PosPosPos]

And I'm pretty sure there's a % of holy priests out there that spam renew and muddle their waters. It's not like only one disc priest out there figured out their Radiance button. Plenty of us use Radiance and are still not rocking meters, from various reasons, so let's not oversimplify things with plea vs radiance.
If you only want to talk about 99%, disc is middle of the pack, but I'm pretty sure that taking the 95% percentiles is a reasonable assumption that those people did idd discover their Radiance button. Statistics show us middle of the pack there overall too, with us leading 3 of the bosses and being absolute bottom on the other 4, even if theoretically ursoc's predictable raidwide dmg looks very well fit for us. On two of those bosses the difference we're behind is significant, but on cenarius/xavius we're so ahead, it makes up.

99, 95, these are all semantics. Regardless, there are proportionally more disc priests who do not use their PWR button than holy priests who do not use their flash heal button, both due to a smaller circle of disc priests and a much higher barrier to understanding the former spec.

So lets look at our best bosses - Cenarius and Xavius.
On Cenarius, in the top 20, we have 2 disc priests, 11 resto druids, 4 resto shamans, 2 paladins and 0 holy priests. There's Sups log which has a significant amount more than everybody else, and then a nice low curve down for the next 20 healers. One can commend here that what actually "muddies the waters" is the exceptional parse from Sups, because it's significantly different than everybody else.

He played it correctly by maintaining PTW on drakes, which is what you are supposed to do on that encounter. Pretty sure the other disc priests who not only did not maximize by maintaining PTW, but were busy spamming plea and shadowmend were the ones muddying the water, unless you are suggesting we should base the strength of disc on the worst of the lot?

For the next parses down to 200, there are 6 more disc priests, while all the other classes are more represented. So we have the grand amount of 8 disc priests in 200 healers that killed that boss. While the result surely shows that the spec is viable, it also shows it's severely underplayed, 31 priests prefer playing holy in the same bracket even if they have the option of being op as disc, and the only explanation for it seems to be that they didn't find their radiance buttons.
On Xavius, we have one disc priest in the top 20, and the next one is on 112. Are you going to tell me that nobody else other than Sups discovered their Radiance button there?

The fact you asked this question tells me you obviously didn't bother to click the link I posted earlier comparing the number 1 and 2 disc priest on Xavius. Congratulations, if you meant to handwave the evidence, you did it marvelously.

I'm not saying we're underpowered. We have our strengths, and we have our weaknesses and my main concern is that we have very little versatility in things we are good at, and it shows on parses where were are either super on some bosses, or abysmal on the others. We are good at burst healing and mediocre at everything else. We're highly dependent both on the fight dmg patters and on our healing teams. As much as I admire the guy and seeing him makes me want to get better, repeating at nausea "Sups could do it, l2p" is not helping anybody. Instead of fapping to Sups' logs, maybe we should be more focused on our own and what is good and bad about the specc - and don't tell me everything is awesome, because I'm not entirely sure you will still be excited to spam Radiance on a timer and press LW 6 months from now. It's a new specc, it needs polishing. It needs more synergy between spells, it needs to have something done about the SM spam in mythic+, it needs maybe a mastery rethinking. I keep hearing that it's got a high skill ceiling, floor and furniture, but honestly, half of that seems to be a case of our team having that floor. There's also something else that bothers me: we used to be a precise healer, one that could save somebody's ass with a shield/penance. Are we not bothered that we lost that?

Yeah, that's why you have other healers like holy paladins? Nobody said to stack disc priests in raids, which happens to be the only premise I can come to the conclusion to that you are arguing about. So umm, yay, you are attacking strawmen.

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You're exactly kind of "discipline priest can't be bad!!! you just suck!!!"-kind of player I was talking about. Please go on. Live in your bubble.

I mean, if you even bothered to click the link, you would catch yourself before you completely embarrassed yourself with this post. But you didn't, so good job losing whatever little credibility you had.

[Freyja Lawson]

Light forbid somebody needs an external cooldown to survive mechanics in MYTHIC difficulty.

The guild I'm a part of has a BOP rotation for Web of Pain...

We have myself as a ret, and a holy paladin, so we aren't stacking Paladins out the weenie. The Prot uses his BOP for violent winds on the other tank.

[Deleted]

99, 95, these are all semantics. Regardless, there are proportionally more disc priests who do not use their PWR button than holy priests who do not use their flash heal button, both due to a smaller circle of disc priests and a much higher barrier to understanding the former spec.

You are still grossly exaggerating the disparity between classes. Regardless of semantics or not, the fact that we are top on some bosses and bottom on others means we are good for some things, and bad for others. Whether that means that we are balanced as a media, or that we are strangely niche, that remains to be seen. Let's pray for blizzard to not release a raid tier full of Ilgynoths.

He played it correctly by maintaining PTW on drakes, which is what you are supposed to do on that encounter. Pretty sure the other disc priests who not only did not maximize by maintaining PTW, but were busy spamming plea and shadowmend were the ones muddying the water, unless you are suggesting we should base the strength of disc on the worst of the lot?

95% are the worst of the lot for you? Okay.

The fact you asked this question tells me you obviously didn't bother to click the link I posted earlier comparing the number 1 and 2 disc priest on Xavius. Congratulations, if you meant to handwave the evidence, you did it marvelously.

Yeah, I did. Know what I saw between the lines? That we play a spec in which using more than one atonement applicator is bad, just like in wod using anything else than pws was generally bad. That if I want to get out of the "I'm supposed to radiance and aoe burst" mode and put a plea on a specific target that needs healing, that means I'm being bad, because I should leave triage to other healers while I'm twiddling my thumbs waiting for my next burst phase. You know, triage, the thing that used to be the mark of a good healer, which we're supposed to currently leave to paladins - that incidentally don't need us to cover for anything in their gameplay.

Hint: it's not numbers that bother me about the spec atm. Stop linking me hps. I know we can do that. I just dislike being punished for using more than 3 buttons. I prefer disc's gameplay in dungeons atm, feels more varied.

Yeah, that's why you have other healers like holy paladins? Nobody said to stack disc priests in raids, which happens to be the only premise I can come to the conclusion to that you are arguing about. So umm, yay, you are attacking strawmen.

I would love to see what happens when you bring 2 disc priests in a raid. So we need paladins to pick up the slack for us. Do they need us to do anything that they can't?

Also, it might shock you, but I'm not 12, nor do I have mental deficiencies as you seem to imagine. Is it that difficult for you to address somebody normally? Your concerns about the class/specc might not coincide with mine, you can just be civil and say that without the excess fluff of trying to sound cool all the time. I'll show myself to the door. Peace.