October 14th-11:00 a.m. Your class needs you!

[bonewax]

just hope the pvp changes for destro make it off the ptr to live. Then i can dump my shadow priest and play warlock again.

[Deleted]

One thing that is not too hard to interpret is the number of parses. It's clear people don't play (or don't raid on) Frost/Arcane Mages, Survival Hunters, Affliction Locks, Frost DKs, and Subtlety Rogues.

Now why is that?

Better speccs to choose from

[Mongosaurus]

In reference to the haunt discussion. Why shouldn't it just be baseline as is? Gives some burst and utility. Then aside from traits and damage, we have what we need again.

[Jessicka]

In reference to the haunt discussion. Why shouldn't it just be baseline as is? Gives some burst and utility. Then aside from traits and damage, we have what we need again.

I would be in favour of that, although it asks the question of what then goes in that talent space: A talent that buffs it?

[Dominus89]

An interrupt would be nice, dont know what the hell they were thinking making warlocks the only dps without one.

Destro has the problem that the specc is really strong if you have 2 targets to attack. With Wreak Havoc you nearly double your damage (excluding the math it takes to cast wreak havoc and not talenting into soul conduit and pets/rifts). Soul shard generation is also way better with more targets when you have immolate up.

Then you have single target. Take a look at https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=99&boss=1853

This says more than a thousand words. Affliction dead last and Destro basically the fourth worst single target dps specc.

I would simply love for Blizzard to nerf the overperformers (Shadow Priest, Retribution, Enhancer, Fire Mage, Feral) and also change destro (read: change. not buff) to make them stronger on single target, but less amazing on cleave.
(I am not going to make suggestions here because people get triggered by it)

Logs are a hard thing to read, interpret and truly understand. There are way too many variables.

But remember guys keep it polite and constructive on october 14th ! Let's forward some criticism in a fashionable manner

You cant have both strong cleave and strong ST. Destro is lower middle on single target bosses and in the top on cleave.
If you want to be strong on pure single target bosses, spec demo.

[Jessicka]

An interrupt would be nice, dont know what the hell they were thinking making warlocks the only dps without one.

Fixing pets to specs was 100% a mistake imho. We don't lack an interrupt really, both the Doomguard and Felhunter have them; they're just not optimal pets unless Affliction for the latter.

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You cant have both strong cleave and strong ST. Destro is lower middle on single target bosses and in the top on cleave.
If you want to be strong on pure single target bosses, spec demo.

Problem is the delta really, Frost Mage has the same sort of issue; strong on 2 targets, even strong on burst AoE; just lacking ST which is what everyone looks at. There's no reason they can't tighten things up a bit more without losing "identity". Because its obviously a problem when identity is getting in the way of it being used at all.

[Deleted]

An interrupt would be nice, dont know what the hell they were thinking making warlocks the only dps without one.



You cant have both strong cleave and strong ST. Destro is lower middle on single target bosses and in the top on cleave.
If you want to be strong on pure single target bosses, spec demo.

That is what I already do, but simulationcraft for demo represent and unrealistic view on demo damage.
Demo is good on ST, but not nearly as good as simcraft makes it look

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#dataset=99

so what are you saying? all 3 of your specs should be in the top10?

Destruction only performs well when you have the opportunity to effectively double your damage by using permanent Havoc.

Basically, it has to double it's damage through a single talent just to do as good as mages and hunters who, err, just do that amount of damage

Permanent Havoc basically introduces the problem that plagues Affliction - if you make Destruction's single target competetive it becomes wildly overpowered any time you can permanently cleave with Havoc.

Just like Affliction, if they make the dots strong enough to be competetive they become godlike in multidot. Their "solution" was to make the dots weak and then supposedly you "doouble them up" with that piece of shit called Soul Effigy.


It's just bad design, Destruction is completely dependent on Wreak Havoc, it makes it much harder to balance it and it makes all other talents irrelevent.

There are easy fixes, but Blizz won;t do them. They could massively buff drain life for affliction, they could massively buff Chaos Bolt and have Havoc with a damage reducer for destruction

Given PVP isnow separate it wouldn't be affected

[Jonny727272]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#dataset=99

so what are you saying? all 3 of your specs should be in the top10?

I haven't seen anyone call you out on it, but you are pulling 99th percentile mythic logs. I'm even amazed there is a single aff parse to compare! Choose a better data set if you want to use logs as a fair comparison tool.

[Mongosaurus]

I would be in favour of that, although it asks the question of what then goes in that talent space: A talent that buffs it?

Well I'd love to see soul swap off of a pvp talent. But they won't do that. That would make target swap too good.

[Soluna]

I don't think that our dps is that bad tbh. Sure we might not be top but we aren't bottom either. If you ask for more dps you are basically asking for them to raise us to fire mage levels, which is OP and I see no damn reason for blizz to just outright buff a class to the point of being OP intentionally.
Some quality of life changes or mechanical improvements would be nice though (remove fucking mana tap, give us circle ability baseline, etc)

[Sunlighthell]

I want to know why they nerf affliction almost every week in pvp since release. It has close to zero representation on ladder in 3v3 and in 2v2 it's just a joke.

[Deleted]

I wish the change they made for chaos bolt would come into PVE talents.

[Sunlighthell]

New ptr build. Prepare for more nerfs.

[ComputerNerd]

Oh maelific grasp, how I miss you.

I still think that the reason people got affliction nerfed to the ground was because of the pvp drain talent on top of the life regen.

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We asked for mechanical changes so that it's just not a trash aoe spec.... Get off your high horse. K thnx.

My opinion is that burst is toned down based on how it can perform at its best, which due to the ramp-up in PvP it isn't readily.

[transparent]

New ptr build. Prepare for more nerfs.

My tear ducts are prepared!

Sigh. How horrendous it is that we anticipate nerfs when, really, we should be expecting buffs and/or QOL changes.

TBH, the entire expansion feels like beta. Warlocks are not the only class having a hard time, Death Knights are in a pretty bad spot, and, with the exception of Marksman Hunter, Hunters are in a bad spot. Shadow Priests, even being OP when you can cheese StM, has issues. Retribution Paladins had massive problems until only recently and the list goes on and on. Heck, even Demon Hunters, both Havoc and Vengeance, are having cries for what seems to be legitimate problems (ST damage, cookie cutter talents and survival-ability problems).

It honestly feels like they were so focused on content, that they left classes for the very end and figured they can fine tune it when it goes live.

I've been playing for 9 years and I have never seen such outcry from so many classes and specs at the same time regarding either mechanics or DPS.

[Sunlighthell]

New ptr build. Prepare for more nerfs.

Ha-ha. They nerfed casting circle pvp talent, and they gave WW monks disarm pvp talent. FAIR. Now 2 op melee classes can also prevent damage from all other melee classes while casters interrupt immune nerfed. They left no excuse for no DR on interrupt and lack of caster's disarms. Also DL back to 600% heal in affliction is just an error.

[HorrorCosmic]

the biggest issue is every spec is too dependent on the fight. Destruction benefits most from cleave battles to really use wreak havoc. Demonology has some very strong single target dmg. and Affliction is good on AoE and council fights.

Problem with this is if your not geared for all 3, or you focused on 1 - artifacts primarily, then your not going to do well. It seems like this class needs way more foresight and pre-planning than any other class with little reward, and even though demo and destro shares stat weights, affliction is on its own...which again if you've focused on one spec primarily you'll only do well on the fight mechanics that are complementary.

I find it funny our sister class (shadow priests) is just destroying.

[corebit]

You cant have both strong cleave and strong ST. Destro is lower middle on single target bosses and in the top on cleave.
If you want to be strong on pure single target bosses, spec demo.

Meanwhile Fire Mages and Hunters excel in both single target and cleave without sacrificing anything. Why is it that warlocks keep spouting this BS to restrict themselves?

Destro warlock top on cleave you say? Go over on warcraftlogs and check who's on top for Dragons of Nightmare, the supposed fight where destro warlocks can shine? Spriests shit on them on Heroic, and Fire Mages shit on them on Mythic.

Please stop with the idea that our ST damage is supposed to be mediocre at the expense of cleave when other classes do phenomenal on both.

[HorrorCosmic]

Meanwhile Fire Mages and Hunters excel in both single target and cleave without sacrificing anything. Why is it that warlocks keep spouting this BS to restrict themselves?

Destro warlock top on cleave you say? Go over on warcraftlogs and check who's on top for Dragons of Nightmare, the supposed fight where destro warlocks can shine? Spriests shit on them on Heroic, and Fire Mages shit on them on Mythic.

Please stop with the idea that our ST damage is supposed to be mediocre at the expense of cleave when other classes do phenomenal on both.

Fully agree with you, I feel this is flavor of the month BS at play again.

And by flavor of the month, i mean its our time to be the redheaded step child.