You seriously think that people getting Glory of the Legion Hero right now will need to also first complete a mythic +15 dungeon within the timer, kill 8 world bosses and ALSO complete Balance of Power just to unlock the skin they've already earned by completing the Glory meta?
Really?
I'd love to know where you're getting your information from.
Last edited by Sar-; 2016-10-11 at 09:21 PM.
Too hard to go to the front page?
Yeah I expanded a little in that answer. I said that the goal of getting players with less time or willingness to wipe for 3 hours into raiding was a noble goal. Raiding is fun. It's the most epic part of the game IMHO. A lot of storytelling happens in raids and you get to see some great art and interact with famous characters. We definitely spent a lot of dev time on raiding, so getting it accessible to a larger population made sense.
The problem with Raid Finder was that when the content was too tough (meaning easier than normal raiding, but not a cake walk) then people would tend to drop the raid after a wipe or two. You'd get these revolving doors where the raid itself was stuck on a boss but the individuals in the raid had cycled through maybe 100s of players after a few hours. There was no "Okay, boys and girls, let's call it a night," moment that you get from a raid leader in an organized guild. For that matter, there was no leader who could kick problem players, dictate strategy or explain the fights. For most players, Raid Finder was a weirdly silent and anonymous affair.
The altenative was to make the difficulty level so easy that you'd probably steamroll every boss and that's sort of where we ended up, but it meant you weren't really doing a rotation, lots of people were AFK and these famous bosses hit like kittens.
Daelo (Scott Mercer) was the other designer who worked with me on Raid Finder, and if I had to do it all over again, I think I would advocate we try something more like a group builder where a leader would invite (and be able to kick) people. I did a lot of pug raiding over the years, and some of them worked fine, which leads me to believe that model has promise. I *think* WoW has something like that now? Not sure.- - - Updated - - -Q: real talk: LFD and LFR, ultimately, at the end of the day, all is said and done, bad for a game?
A: I still don't know. (OccupyGStreet)
If you put a gun to my head I'd say LFG with harder dungeons and no LFR. But it's a crap shoot. (OccupyGStreet)
Easyish Naxx and LK dungeons set expectations that were hard to ever undo. Maybe LFG was just a symptom at that point. (OccupyGStreet)
Q: is the irrevocability of a feature a big part of the design decision or is it more if a hindsight is 20/20 thing?
A: For a live game (like LoL/WoW) you always have to think about the precedents you set. It's like being a SCOTUS judge. (OccupyGStreet)
Q: I wasn't paying attention during the Cata difficulty outrage--would it have been possible to soldier through?
A: Yes. Better would have been to provide an alternative for those who didn't enjoy wiping. (OccupyGStreet)
"I'm too lazy to make my own group, pls carry"
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If you can't manage normal EN, you're not soloing anything this expansion.
I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.
The only remaining thing bugging me about this now is the fact that it only leaves me 2 very similar-looking artifact skins to "look forward" to all expansion. It'd be nice if they'd diversify the two "default" ones if they're gonna leave things this way.
Actually, that's my understanding of it as well.
You have to unlock the base model to access all the recolors.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. All the cool WoD weapons were gated behind N+. The only real concession to be made is adding a new tier of weapon skins for LFR and LFG.
They don't want that though.
I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.
None of that actually says he considers it a mistake. In point of fact he says "We definitely spent a lot of dev time on raiding, so getting it accessible to a larger population made sense.". Which only means lfr is a huge success and only butressess the argument that the huge subsidy that was raiding before lfr was coming to an end. Raiding in 2016 means lfr. Too.fuckong bad.
good way to lose another couple million subscribers, gawd blizztard.
Yes. There has been no difference in the raid content cadence before and after LFR.
Ion is mistaken. They think they are satisfied with all the difficulties, but they are a burnout element. Eventually they will realise that. But nowhere there does it say there can't be quests that are aimed at specific difficulties.
Are you making the same sterotyping remarks as the other person with your statement regarding people doing LFR.
Pugging is not an option for some. This has been presented by many. You don't seem to realize this.
It seems you do not understand or miss the point of my post. But oh well, most posters seems to have judge people based on their post, like you have on mine. You seem to think I am anti-social and incapable of understand the concept of options.
lowborn hellsquids crying a river, wow this is some nice stuff to laugh about until the non flying nonsense comes back
LFR is not a requirement, perhaps, but some kind of raid content that serves the audience that LFR was intended to serve IS a requirement. If that audience is not served, raid participation would be too low to justify as much raid content as you have been getting in MoP and later.
When LFR was added, they could instead have gone with the "easy normal" mode as they had in Naxx 2.0 and ToC. Instead, they added LFR and tuned up normal mode . This left casual guilds without raid content they could run as guilds. That might have been ok, but LFR didn't end up working like they wanted it to, as GC explained in more detail. The moves toward Flex, and toward making Normal mode easier in HFC and now EN, is them slowly pivoting back to what they could have done in place of LFR.
Last edited by Osmeric; 2016-10-12 at 01:07 AM.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
No.
I'm saying an entirely new model for LFR and LFG. The current new MODEL is a reward for non-queueable content.
Add one for completing all LFR and LFG content. Add tints for various milestones in these areas.
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Lol okay
"Daelo (Scott Mercer) was the other designer who worked with me on Raid Finder, and if I had to do it all over again, I think I would advocate we try something more like a group builder where a leader would invite (and be able to kick) people."
I never said that LFR was a mistake, I said it's current implementation is.
Pls 2 read thx
Last edited by Snuffleupagus; 2016-10-12 at 12:54 AM.
I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.
Luckily for me, I prefer the pvp skins for my feral, so I've been grinding those. But, yeah, gating world boss and dungeon skins behind raids - typical. They can take their precious raiding and shove it for all I care.