I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Blayze]

Heres the thing. LFR sucks but whats stopping you from getting in one of the many groups that are looking for extra people for Normal EN?

"850+ ilvl link curve one fail and ur out bad dps also kick"

[Eleccybubb]

"850+ ilvl link curve one fail and ur out bad dps also kick"

Look for a group that doesn't ask for Curve but either asks for Rift or expects you to have knowledge of the fights. I see them in Group Finder all the time.

[Sar-]

Everything i have read has indicated this is false. Do you have a link supporting that?

You seriously think that people getting Glory of the Legion Hero right now will need to also first complete a mythic +15 dungeon within the timer, kill 8 world bosses and ALSO complete Balance of Power just to unlock the skin they've already earned by completing the Glory meta?

Really?

I'd love to know where you're getting your information from.

[Snuffleupagus]

Where? Cite this please.

Too hard to go to the front page?

Yeah I expanded a little in that answer. I said that the goal of getting players with less time or willingness to wipe for 3 hours into raiding was a noble goal. Raiding is fun. It's the most epic part of the game IMHO. A lot of storytelling happens in raids and you get to see some great art and interact with famous characters. We definitely spent a lot of dev time on raiding, so getting it accessible to a larger population made sense.

The problem with Raid Finder was that when the content was too tough (meaning easier than normal raiding, but not a cake walk) then people would tend to drop the raid after a wipe or two. You'd get these revolving doors where the raid itself was stuck on a boss but the individuals in the raid had cycled through maybe 100s of players after a few hours. There was no "Okay, boys and girls, let's call it a night," moment that you get from a raid leader in an organized guild. For that matter, there was no leader who could kick problem players, dictate strategy or explain the fights. For most players, Raid Finder was a weirdly silent and anonymous affair.

The altenative was to make the difficulty level so easy that you'd probably steamroll every boss and that's sort of where we ended up, but it meant you weren't really doing a rotation, lots of people were AFK and these famous bosses hit like kittens.

Daelo (Scott Mercer) was the other designer who worked with me on Raid Finder, and if I had to do it all over again, I think I would advocate we try something more like a group builder where a leader would invite (and be able to kick) people. I did a lot of pug raiding over the years, and some of them worked fine, which leads me to believe that model has promise. I *think* WoW has something like that now? Not sure.

Q: real talk: LFD and LFR, ultimately, at the end of the day, all is said and done, bad for a game?

A: I still don't know. (OccupyGStreet)

If you put a gun to my head I'd say LFG with harder dungeons and no LFR. But it's a crap shoot. (OccupyGStreet)

Easyish Naxx and LK dungeons set expectations that were hard to ever undo. Maybe LFG was just a symptom at that point. (OccupyGStreet)

Q: is the irrevocability of a feature a big part of the design decision or is it more if a hindsight is 20/20 thing?

A: For a live game (like LoL/WoW) you always have to think about the precedents you set. It's like being a SCOTUS judge. (OccupyGStreet)

Q: I wasn't paying attention during the Cata difficulty outrage--would it have been possible to soldier through?

A: Yes. Better would have been to provide an alternative for those who didn't enjoy wiping. (OccupyGStreet)

- - - Updated - - -

"850+ ilvl link curve one fail and ur out bad dps also kick"

"I'm too lazy to make my own group, pls carry"

- - - Updated - - -

At the rate they inflate item levels it will not take till next expansion to solo that content. Suggesting people play something else is a wonderful suggestion for those people. It is a disaster for the game. Private virtues public vices.

If you can't manage normal EN, you're not soloing anything this expansion.

[Mystikal]

The only remaining thing bugging me about this now is the fact that it only leaves me 2 very similar-looking artifact skins to "look forward" to all expansion. It'd be nice if they'd diversify the two "default" ones if they're gonna leave things this way.

[Snuffleupagus]

You seriously think that people getting Glory of the Legion Hero right now will need to also first complete a mythic +15 dungeon within the timer, kill 8 world bosses and ALSO complete Balance of Power just to unlock the skin they've already earned by completing the Glory meta?

Really?

I'd love to know where you're getting your information from.

Actually, that's my understanding of it as well.

You have to unlock the base model to access all the recolors.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. All the cool WoD weapons were gated behind N+. The only real concession to be made is adding a new tier of weapon skins for LFR and LFG.

They don't want that though.

[Florena]

The only remaining thing bugging me about this now is the fact that it only leaves me 2 very similar-looking artifact skins to "look forward" to all expansion. It'd be nice if they'd diversify the two "default" ones if they're gonna leave things this way.

You can always go for the hidden and pvp skins.

[Glorious Leader]

Too hard to go to the front page?





- - - Updated - - -



"I'm too lazy to make my own group, pls carry"

- - - Updated - - -



If you can't manage normal EN, you're not soloing anything this expansion.

None of that actually says he considers it a mistake. In point of fact he says "We definitely spent a lot of dev time on raiding, so getting it accessible to a larger population made sense.". Which only means lfr is a huge success and only butressess the argument that the huge subsidy that was raiding before lfr was coming to an end. Raiding in 2016 means lfr. Too.fuckong bad.

[Himora]

good way to lose another couple million subscribers, gawd blizztard.

[Skayaq]

Actually, that's my understanding of it as well.

You have to unlock the base model to access all the recolors.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. All the cool WoD weapons were gated behind N+. The only real concession to be made is adding a new tier of weapon skins for LFR and LFG.

They don't want that though.

I would be okay with that, thoug I would propose it being done this way:

- Valorous gets unlocked by killing Normal(or maybe heroic) Xavius

- Balance of Power quest is changed to be doable in LFR, and would unlock this skin

deal?

[Spev543]

oh everything isn't handed to you on a silver platter QQ.. Seriously pug a normal version of EN its easy.

this is how I feel as well

[Sar-]

Actually, that's my understanding of it as well.

You have to unlock the base model to access all the recolors.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. All the cool WoD weapons were gated behind N+. The only real concession to be made is adding a new tier of weapon skins for LFR and LFG.

They don't want that though.

Where does anything official state this though? I've never read anything about having to unlock any base model, and everything I've seen or read just ties each appearance directly to its own individual requirements?

[Deleted]

Who gives a shit? He no longer works, or speaks for Blizzard. He also admitted his opinion was outdated and no longer relevant on the topic. Blizzard themselves appear to be happy with LFR currently as indicated in their Fatboss interview -

Ion: There were a lot of skepticism initially, but solving the 'sorry man raid is full' or 'someone couldn't make it, we have to cancel' etc. So we wouldn't want to change this system, we feel like it is perfect as it is. We think that the difficulties we've introduced being lfr, normal, heroic and mythic has worked out fine. LFR being for those who just want to see the content, normal for friends and family, heroic for guilds or groups that want to preform and lastly mything for the hardcore player base.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...n_hazzikostas/



Sure there will still be raids, but do you honestly think the quantity and quality would both be the same?

Yes. There has been no difference in the raid content cadence before and after LFR.

Ion is mistaken. They think they are satisfied with all the difficulties, but they are a burnout element. Eventually they will realise that. But nowhere there does it say there can't be quests that are aimed at specific difficulties.

[Sansnom]

You are anti-social if like the OP, you are complaining about a quest chain not beeing completable on the unsociable LFR.

Are you making the same sterotyping remarks as the other person with your statement regarding people doing LFR.

You are bringing alot of irrelevant drawer arguments for this debate. I don't need a list because theres only one point. Quest is normal + only? Join a guild, Pug or shut up.

Pugging is not an option for some. This has been presented by many. You don't seem to realize this.

It is not an essential quest line. Theres no legendary behind it. Its optional. Do you understand the concept? Optional. If theres an artifact skin that requires PvP and i don't like PvPing i will just accept that it isnt for me. If i want it, i will have to start PvPing. Are you capable of understanding this?

It seems you do not understand or miss the point of my post. But oh well, most posters seems to have judge people based on their post, like you have on mine. You seem to think I am anti-social and incapable of understand the concept of options.

[Deleted]

lowborn hellsquids crying a river, wow this is some nice stuff to laugh about until the non flying nonsense comes back

[Sorrior]

Tier and trinkets in LFR not enough? Embarrassing yourselves crying for 120 pages for COSMETICS?

You should be ashamed if you contributed at the tears river over this COSMETIC non-issue.

Have your trinkets and remove stats from tier then

[Osmeric]

That big BS argument is out of date. The creator of LFR himself already admited it was a mistake. Raiding existed before LFR. LFR is not a requirement for raiding content to be made.

LFR is not a requirement, perhaps, but some kind of raid content that serves the audience that LFR was intended to serve IS a requirement. If that audience is not served, raid participation would be too low to justify as much raid content as you have been getting in MoP and later.

When LFR was added, they could instead have gone with the "easy normal" mode as they had in Naxx 2.0 and ToC. Instead, they added LFR and tuned up normal mode . This left casual guilds without raid content they could run as guilds. That might have been ok, but LFR didn't end up working like they wanted it to, as GC explained in more detail. The moves toward Flex, and toward making Normal mode easier in HFC and now EN, is them slowly pivoting back to what they could have done in place of LFR.

[CalamityHeart]

good way to lose another couple million subscribers, gawd blizztard.

Millions are not going to quit over a cosmetic item being gated behind organized endgame content. To those who do quit over this, I say good riddance. This game doesn't need people like that anyway.

[Snuffleupagus]

I would be okay with that, thoug I would propose it being done this way:

- Valorous gets unlocked by killing Normal(or maybe heroic) Xavius

- Balance of Power quest is changed to be doable in LFR, and would unlock this skin

deal?

No.

I'm saying an entirely new model for LFR and LFG. The current new MODEL is a reward for non-queueable content.

Add one for completing all LFR and LFG content. Add tints for various milestones in these areas.

- - - Updated - - -

None of that actually says he considers it a mistake. In point of fact he says "We definitely spent a lot of dev time on raiding, so getting it accessible to a larger population made sense.". Which only means lfr is a huge success and only butressess the argument that the huge subsidy that was raiding before lfr was coming to an end. Raiding in 2016 means lfr. Too.fuckong bad.

Lol okay

"Daelo (Scott Mercer) was the other designer who worked with me on Raid Finder, and if I had to do it all over again, I think I would advocate we try something more like a group builder where a leader would invite (and be able to kick) people."

I never said that LFR was a mistake, I said it's current implementation is.

Pls 2 read thx

[Eveningforest]

Luckily for me, I prefer the pvp skins for my feral, so I've been grinding those. But, yeah, gating world boss and dungeon skins behind raids - typical. They can take their precious raiding and shove it for all I care.