Page 32 of 101 FirstFirst ...
22
30
31
32
33
34
42
82
... LastLast
  1. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by Neudgae View Post
    too RNG? im in meta for half of most fights and its not even the leech that helps survive in raids its the bonus heal instantly gaining and healing 45% hp is amazing
    I don't belive thats how it works.
    My testing shows that meta activating increases both current and max HP by X (based on artifact traits, X is in the range [30%,60%]) of your max hp; meta ending decreased current and HP by a factor of 1 / (1+X). (The way it ends seems like it implies current HP should have originally increased by X of current, rather than max but whatever - I guess they don't have to be consistent).

    If your HP is A / B then
    Meta activates, HP = (A + XB) / ((1+X)B)
    Meta ends, HP = (A+XB)(1+X)^-1 / B

    I will not bore anyone with basic algebra, but the net result is meta activating and ending nets you a heal of X/(1+X) * missing HP.
    If you have 3/3 in your artifact (X=45%) then you will not get a 45% heal, you will get ~31% of your missing HP.
    BreweRyge: Adds a resource meter for Brewmaster brews, as if they were on a rage- or energy-type system.
    Hidden Artifact Tracker: Adds your progress on unlocking the extra tints for your hidden artifact appearance to the item tooltip.

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Munkky View Post
    For those who do not know. Our talents are pretty shit in general, most of the discussion comes in the form of, which ones are "best" in each row. The only outliers in certain situations IMO are Soul Rending/Last Resort. Our traits are also very similar in that they are generally pretty shit.

    Yeah, Charred Warblades in particular is so disappointing, as is the increase to shear damage.

    In general I just feel like a crappier blood DK who wastes more healing since they at least get an absorb shield to bank on when they heal, and the amount they heal scales up with damage whereas our minuscule soul cleaves don't really account for the immense damage spikes from scaling mythic+ and mythic bosses.

    I guess I can kite better, but that really doesn't help much in a raid let alone if you have melee you're screwing over by constantly moving mobs around.

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    Yeah, Charred Warblades in particular is so disappointing, as is the increase to shear damage.

    In general I just feel like a crappier blood DK who wastes more healing since they at least get an absorb shield to bank on when they heal, and the amount they heal scales up with damage whereas our minuscule soul cleaves don't really account for the immense damage spikes from scaling mythic+ and mythic bosses.

    I guess I can kite better, but that really doesn't help much in a raid let alone if you have melee you're screwing over by constantly moving mobs around.
    It's a silly comparison since DK AMS is on 1min CD and they have 16% DR from Bone Shield where as our Demon Spikes has higher mitigation with less uptime. We also don't have to play around generating Demon Spikes charges. Yes, the DK has more selfhealing when you look at meters, but a bulk of that comes from Bone Shield and not Death Strike. I still feel like SC should max out at 40 or even 50 pain instead of 60 with the current scaling in place.

    That said, I prefer DnD slow to kiting vs. full movespeed mobs with leaps (technically, your group can then slow the mobs down, but I prefer to be in control myself).
    Quote Originally Posted by a wiser man
    Tanking should not exist just to let healers and dps have fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coramac
    If a monk has 200k DTPS and 200k HPS in hots on him, does anyone hear when he purifies?
    WeakAura sets with Rotation Helpers: Vengeance - Brewmaster

    ARMORY - ARMORY
    <Ninjapartio>

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by redfella View Post
    It's a silly comparison since DK AMS is on 1min CD and they have 16% DR from Bone Shield where as our Demon Spikes has higher mitigation with less uptime. We also don't have to play around generating Demon Spikes charges. Yes, the DK has more selfhealing when you look at meters, but a bulk of that comes from Bone Shield and not Death Strike. I still feel like SC should max out at 40 or even 50 pain instead of 60 with the current scaling in place.

    That said, I prefer DnD slow to kiting vs. full movespeed mobs with leaps (technically, your group can then slow the mobs down, but I prefer to be in control myself).
    I meant how easy it is to waste our healing in comparison. The fact that they have absorbs at all feels better as you don't feel like you have to hold on to pain and risk capping just to answer to a spike. Soul Cleave is integral to your DPS yet using SC as your pain nears cap may actually hurt your survival, so you're faced with banking pain and losing dps or dps and risk delaying your heal in a bad time.

    I just brought up blood DK as a self healing tank category. Obviously I could be complaining about prot warrior, pally, or guardian druids...who are even better off.

  5. #625
    Mechagnome
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    A faraway meadow
    Posts
    734
    Quote Originally Posted by Anahita View Post
    Hi, I also have a trinket question. Currently, I have 850 Horn of Valor, 855 Memento of Angerboda, 855 Spontaneous Appendages, and 865 Faulty Countermeasure. I'm using Faulty Countermeasure + Memento at present, would this be the best pairing? The Spontaneous Appendages seem to do decent damage, but I don't like the passive mastery at all, and not sure about Horn >.>
    Use Memento + Faulty Countermeasure. You can swap Faulty Countermeasure out for Horn if you want more survivability.

  6. #626
    Hiya, trinket question. I have an 840 Horn of Valor, 860(Socket) Unstable arcanocrystal, 875 Nature's Call, and 855 faulty countermeasures,Which set is best for survival? And which is best for DPS
    I solo stuff. I do deepz. I raid. What else do i want? Oh yeah. loot. give me loot. Cookie for loot?

  7. #627
    Arcanocrystal / Horn of valor for survival cuz verse, natures call would be a good alternative if you wanted to squeeze some extra dps out while maintaining surviveability.

  8. #628
    After doing Mythic10s I find that I do not agree at all with the talents nor the statweight that this guide gives. Demon spike uptime is a key here when the bosses hits you for over a mil every hit so feed the demon is a must. While it would be nice to heal when going random meta it doesnt matter at all if I dont have demon spike up as I will die like a fly. Thats also why I would rank haste much higher too improve that uptime even more. Also I would rank crit above mastery after the nerf. With the baseline of Demon spike being that high now I find it much more valuble to get that extra parry. Mastery gives so little. in the same vein I think versatility is a highly overrated stat. It gives so fucking little in terms of migation that it is not worth it imo. It can be good in certain encounters with a lot of magic dmg but we got one of the best magic migation tools avalible already and parry/haste wil give so much more in terms of physical migation

  9. #629
    After getting my hands on a 885 Grotesque Statuette, I'm super saddened about how bad this trinket is for avoidance based tanks.
    I have no clue why this trinket proccs after rolling avoidance.
    I see other tanks regularly getting well over 6 stacks after a few seconds, while I sit here, optimizing my DS uptime and only getting 4 stacks before it runs out.
    Even without DS just getting hit by the dummy in our Class Hall, I couldn't even go to 6 stacks once.
    Imo, this trinket should procc even on avoided hits, since it's bound to become even worse with scaling.

    Also: Is there a possibility this trinket is bugged? Had a prot paladin in my Xavius HC Pug that had 15+ stacks with 100% uptime, stacks reset his duration.
    He took such a ridiculously low amount of damage because of that, that it would have been a waste taunting the boss from him apart from dispel resets.


    Edit: Adding to the debate about Soul Rending vs Feed the Demon. (All the following assumes also running fallout and 16% haste):

    Single Target, with optimal use of the CD reduction on DS, you can easily squeeze in two additional DS per minute without
    losing almost any dps/hps from rotational changes (slightly below 6 uses in the first minute vs around 8).

    Comparing the uptime in the first minute from a pull (which is pretty much anytime in M+) this is an increase from
    60% uptime to 80%, essentially cutting the time unmitigated in half.

    First 30 seconds, assuming you start with two charges of DS, it jumps from 80% uptime to 100% uptime.

    After the first minute (this is more important in Mythic Raid settings) this is at 50% uptime vs ~70% uptime, which still reduces the time taking unmitigated hits by 40%.

    All this only gets even higher with more haste (and more targets for fallout, which once again, is more relevant in M+), which we stack anyways.

    I started trying out Soul Rending in M+8 and higher and is just feels like it has such a low impact compared to FtD. It's unreliable and really low healing on proccs, it's healing is way too spread out in real Meta (around 2 million healing over 15 secs every 3 minutes is like nothing at all,) and mostly I felt like I wouldn't have had to pop Meta at most points if I had lower cd on DS.
    It's only a lot of healing if you have a lot of Pain anyway, Immo auro isn't on cd, you have sigils and Infernal Strikes ready, which are cases where you most likely won't have to pop Meta anyway. Yeah I can get 5 million Health back in this scenario, but it's probably wasted in this scenario anyway.

    M+ Is all about either reducing incoming damage or burst healing it back up. When you're out of ressources, SR won't do anything major and FtD makes you not run out of ressources in the first place.
    Last edited by noepeen; 2016-10-12 at 12:14 AM.

  10. #630
    Currently I'm running 865 Unbridled Fury and 855 Phantasmal Echo for lack of better things dropping.

    I'm considering grabbing DMC: Immortality and boosting to 850 because I get absolutely wrecked in Heroic EM. Our other tank is a Monk so we share loot a bit. Is this worth doing? I guess my fear is not keeping it very long.
    Last edited by Boyiee; 2016-10-12 at 12:23 AM.
    Top 100.

  11. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by noepeen View Post
    After getting my hands on a 885 Grotesque Statuette, I'm super saddened about how bad this trinket is for avoidance based tanks.
    I have no clue why this trinket proccs after rolling avoidance.
    I see other tanks regularly getting well over 6 stacks after a few seconds, while I sit here, optimizing my DS uptime and only getting 4 stacks before it runs out.
    Even without DS just getting hit by the dummy in our Class Hall, I couldn't even go to 6 stacks once.
    Imo, this trinket should procc even on avoided hits, since it's bound to become even worse with scaling.

    Also: Is there a possibility this trinket is bugged? Had a prot paladin in my Xavius HC Pug that had 15+ stacks with 100% uptime, stacks reset his duration.
    He took such a ridiculously low amount of damage because of that, that it would have been a waste taunting the boss from him apart from dispel resets.


    Edit: Adding to the debate about Soul Rending vs Feed the Demon. (All the following assumes also running fallout and 16% haste):

    Single Target, with optimal use of the CD reduction on DS, you can easily squeeze in two additional DS per minute without
    losing almost any dps/hps from rotational changes (slightly below 6 uses in the first minute vs around 8).

    Comparing the uptime in the first minute from a pull (which is pretty much anytime in M+) this is an increase from
    60% uptime to 80%, essentially cutting the time unmitigated in half.

    First 30 seconds, assuming you start with two charges of DS, it jumps from 80% uptime to 100% uptime.

    After the first minute (this is more important in Mythic Raid settings) this is at 50% uptime vs ~70% uptime, which still reduces the time taking unmitigated hits by 40%.

    All this only gets even higher with more haste (and more targets for fallout, which once again, is more relevant in M+), which we stack anyways.

    I started trying out Soul Rending in M+8 and higher and is just feels like it has such a low impact compared to FtD. It's unreliable and really low healing on proccs, it's healing is way too spread out in real Meta (around 2 million healing over 15 secs every 3 minutes is like nothing at all,) and mostly I felt like I wouldn't have had to pop Meta at most points if I had lower cd on DS.
    It's only a lot of healing if you have a lot of Pain anyway, Immo auro isn't on cd, you have sigils and Infernal Strikes ready, which are cases where you most likely won't have to pop Meta anyway. Yeah I can get 5 million Health back in this scenario, but it's probably wasted in this scenario anyway.

    M+ Is all about either reducing incoming damage or burst healing it back up. When you're out of ressources, SR won't do anything major and FtD makes you not run out of ressources in the first place.
    This isn't anything new. All of this has been discussed.
    The statuette is not on the list of trinkets
    It is bugged

    On SR vs FTD
    It is even in the guides, that you can use FTD in conjunction with Fallout in for increased smoothing. It obviously got nerfed with the Mastery nerfed, but none the less, it is still viable. It is just a preference thing that people prefer Soul Rending over it. This has been a debate since Beta when the talents were swapped around and this will be a debate for a long time. If you are pushing super hard (If you are pushing incredibly hard for high progression, you won't be taking a DH right now anyway) then yes this can definitely be better depending on your group and the affixes. If you are running easier stuff, you are better off with SR for due to the amount of healing you get from it. It is more conducive too a burst surv than feed. You also have to consider things like stuns and Affixes into this arguement if you are speaking specifically for M+. Group comp helps a lot as well. More burst dps makes FTD worse because there isn't as much time to take advantage of it.

  12. #632
    Does parrying attacks prevent necrotic from applying to you? Would that make FtD better this week in M+ (if your group doesn't have a lot of AoE stuns)?

  13. #633
    Deleted
    Can anyone tell me what the Stat Weights are exactly for DH Tank (with Numbers) , so i can use them in Pawn. Thanks in Advance

  14. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by reikumo View Post
    Can anyone tell me what the Stat Weights are exactly for DH Tank (with Numbers) , so i can use them in Pawn. Thanks in Advance
    Quote Originally Posted by Munkky View Post
    Stats
    There will not be any Stat Weights.
    Taken from front page. Vengeance (and tanks in general) don't use stat weights and can't be accurately simmed.

  15. #635
    How are you guys tanking Necrotic? I'm doing +8 Nelth and the first boss Rokmura is wrecking my shit. Can't even kite him.

  16. #636
    When he starts casting, jump as far as you can.

    Bring a dps class with taunt.

    Hunter pet taunt.

    Shadowmeld.

    Many things work
    Last edited by redfella; 2016-10-13 at 09:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by a wiser man
    Tanking should not exist just to let healers and dps have fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coramac
    If a monk has 200k DTPS and 200k HPS in hots on him, does anyone hear when he purifies?
    WeakAura sets with Rotation Helpers: Vengeance - Brewmaster

    ARMORY - ARMORY
    <Ninjapartio>

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by redfella View Post
    When he starts casting, jump as far as you can.

    Bring a dps class with taunt.

    Hunter pet taunt.

    Shadowneld.

    Many things work
    Well it turns out Rokmura himself puts up Necrotic stacks very slowly. It's his little shitter adds that stack up the necrotic super fast. Just kill them, and normal boss as usual.

  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by Herbalplz View Post
    Well it turns out Rokmura himself puts up Necrotic stacks very slowly. It's his little shitter adds that stack up the necrotic super fast. Just kill them, and normal boss as usual.
    Thought it was obvious that you shouldn't tank the small ones, let DPS just blow 'em up.
    Quote Originally Posted by a wiser man
    Tanking should not exist just to let healers and dps have fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coramac
    If a monk has 200k DTPS and 200k HPS in hots on him, does anyone hear when he purifies?
    WeakAura sets with Rotation Helpers: Vengeance - Brewmaster

    ARMORY - ARMORY
    <Ninjapartio>

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by redfella View Post
    Thought it was obvious that you shouldn't tank the small ones, let DPS just blow 'em up.
    You need dps with taunts to keep them off of you.

    Heal aggro alone is a magnet, they don't even need to be in your aoe and can spawn in africa. If you hit a Soul Cleave they're running to you.

  20. #640
    Dunno, was a non-issue for my group last week, having mm hunter and fire mage was enough cleave, that I rarely grabbed heal aggro.
    Quote Originally Posted by a wiser man
    Tanking should not exist just to let healers and dps have fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coramac
    If a monk has 200k DTPS and 200k HPS in hots on him, does anyone hear when he purifies?
    WeakAura sets with Rotation Helpers: Vengeance - Brewmaster

    ARMORY - ARMORY
    <Ninjapartio>

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •