[Feral] Legion Discussion

[Lucrece]

If you cant look at the speed ratings and number of parses at different Mythic+ levels, and make some pretty obvious deductions there isn't much help for you.

There hasn't been much help for someone who probably spends their time drowning the forums in tears rather than clearing the content like everybody else is doing.

[teddabear]

There hasn't been much help for someone who probably spends their time drowning the forums in tears rather than clearing the content like everybody else is doing.

I take it your one of the 14 Feral's that has cleared Mythic+10.

Mythic +5 has 1 affix. What place is Feral in? 34th

Clearly Feral is doing fine in Mythic+

[Deleted]

it think it is "you're or you are" not "your" but overall Feral is trash in mythic+ and i gave up on this. Now pondering should i stop playing entirely.

[Deleted]

it think it is "you're or you are" not "your" but overall Feral is trash in mythic+ and i gave up on this. Now pondering should i stop playing entirely.

If you feel feral is trash in mythic + its because you are trash.

as a note. Making judgements based on WClogs statistics is pretty shitty as a very small number of people upload their logs there. If you think there is only 14 ferals who have cleared +10 then IDK what to tell you, because i personally know more ferals who've cleared that than 14...

[Cover25]

With the druid chest legendary (50%+ to thick hide/YG/AI/FS) Which talent should I be running? Currently I chose thick hide for the 15% DR but i'm not sure if it's the most effective choice.

[Azaile-]

If you feel feral is trash in mythic + its because you are trash.

Ferals are fine, great infact. However we have a bad reputation

[-aiko-]

If you feel feral is trash in mythic + its because you are trash.

Not really. I mean, with a solid group any spec can obviously do any level Mythic dungeon. However, it's not an opinion that Feral is one of the weakest M+ specs to bring along.

[Deleted]

If you feel feral is trash in mythic + its because you are trash.

Now we know also ferals are a friendly community.

[Deleted]

Not really. I mean, with a solid group any spec can obviously do any level Mythic dungeon. However, it's not an opinion that Feral is one of the weakest M+ specs to bring along.

Would you describe outlaw rogues as a weak m+ spec? Just curious. Because on 3 or so targets that live for moderate duration. I.e. the kind of pulls you do in high m+ level. If we play SOTF we have equivalent cleave to outlaw rogues. We also have better single target.

So.

Either you'd describe outlaw rogue as trash for mythic+, or you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

And ofc. No brainer. if we play SR we have the best single target in the game. Which with tyrannical. is KIND of good.

If you're not capable of getting maximum performance out of it then no shit it won't perform. but if you are. Its more than equivalent if not superior to many of the classes that you'd call good in mythic +

please.

stop this fucking kanker meme of "hurr durr feral bad in m+ because declined for +2"

[RayenDark]

With the druid chest legendary (50%+ to thick hide/YG/AI/FS) Which talent should I be running? Currently I chose thick hide for the 15% DR but i'm not sure if it's the most effective choice.

I'm loving Balance Affinity W/ the chest because I can stand behind my melee buddies giving everyone more room. Nothing wrong with taking less damage but I'd never give up the extra range for it.

[-aiko-]

I'm really not interested in trading insults. If you want to be a complete jerk then you can do it with someone else. Honestly, I shouldn't even bother with a response but w/e *shrug*

- Outlaw Rogues don't need to set up their cleave or maintain it. They just...cleave. SotF helps Feral keep up on 3-target cleave but the more adds the less value we bring.
- Only with certain affixes will you see 3 target pulls. Most groups, even at high M+ levels will prefer burst AoE with the largest pulls they can safely handle.
- Feral ST is sustained. We easily lose to specs with better DPS cooldowns but even if we top a boss fight bosses are a small fraction of a M+ dungeon.

No one who plays Feral seriously is claiming that we're garbage in M+ or that we deserve to be declined. However, pretending that Feral is able to compete with other, better specs doesn't help the cause.

[teddabear]

If you feel feral is trash in mythic + its because you are trash.

as a note. Making judgements based on WClogs statistics is pretty shitty as a very small number of people upload their logs there. If you think there is only 14 ferals who have cleared +10 then IDK what to tell you, because i personally know more ferals who've cleared that than 14...

Very small number?

Over 500 individual Mythic+ parses uploaded per day.

Overall 1 million heroic raid parses in the short time heroic raids have been open.

Its more than equivalent if not superior to many of the classes that you'd call good in mythic +

Despite overwhelming statistical evidence to the contrary.

[Nefarious Tea]

I'm really not interested in trading insults. If you want to be a complete jerk then you can do it with someone else. Honestly, I shouldn't even bother with a response but w/e *shrug*

I know it's not your specific forum nor do I really have the authority to tell you what to do but... maybe should look into some moderating nonetheless? This thread is nothing but people bitching about Mythic+ for a solid eight to ten pages. It hasn't had a useful post for days... and as someone who's just starting to play feral (even if it is an alt), trying to find useful info is nigh impossible here.

[Deleted]

Very small number?

Over 500 individual Mythic+ parses uploaded per day.

Overall 1 million heroic raid parses in the short time heroic raids have been open.



Despite overwhelming statistical evidence to the contrary.

do you really believe. There are only 500 individual mythic+'s done a day.

Like
do you genuinely fucking believe. as you've said before. that only 14 ferals have done a m+10. Like fucking really. Because unless you believe that, then your "stastical evidence" is worth jack.

also not sure what the relevance of heroic raid parses when we're discussing M+ is.

I'm really not interested in trading insults. If you want to be a complete jerk then you can do it with someone else. Honestly, I shouldn't even bother with a response but w/e *shrug*

- Outlaw Rogues don't need to set up their cleave or maintain it. They just...cleave. SotF helps Feral keep up on 3-target cleave but the more adds the less value we bring.
- Only with certain affixes will you see 3 target pulls. Most groups, even at high M+ levels will prefer burst AoE with the largest pulls they can safely handle.
- Feral ST is sustained. We easily lose to specs with better DPS cooldowns but even if we top a boss fight bosses are a small fraction of a M+ dungeon.

No one who plays Feral seriously is claiming that we're garbage in M+ or that we deserve to be declined. However, pretending that Feral is able to compete with other, better specs doesn't help the cause.

Firstly. What cause, there is no cause, If you wan't to bitch and whine about how you're unable to perform then go ahead, I'll continue running my m+'s perfectly fine with zero problems.

If you're masspulling M+10's then clearly you're a fucking god and i don't know why you don't have your +15 yet...

So higher mythic+ will have either fortifified or tyrannical. With fortified, It once again reinforces pulling a smaller number of mobs that will live longer. AKA CLEAVE. Yes OFC we struggle with Large number of burst aoe mobs, exactly the same as shadow priests, however for higher mythic+ you don't mass pull mobs. You pull a pack, cleave it, next pack. With packs lasting MORE than long enough for us to compete with classes you'd consider amazing, fire mages, BM hunters, outlaw rogues, We probably still won't compete with DHs as the absolute best class, but we more than compete with these classes. If you're pulling more than a few mobs in an m+10 or higher, with fortified, YOURE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME.

So the other possible affix is tyrannical. Which means bosses have hugely increased health, Hmmmmm wouldn't it be good if there was a class that did a lot of sustained single target. Hmmmmm where could we find one of those? The world first m+15 UPLOADED to warcraftlogs had a shadow priest in it. Are you going to argue that shadowpriest is a better aoe spec than we are? When boss fights last 3 minutes or so. Which they do with tyrannical and high m+ levels. then having someone who does excellent single target might maybe become kind of valuable do you not think.

Honestly everything that both of you say just leads me to believe you haven't actually done any high level m+s and thus actually don't have any idea what you're talking about, just talking out of your ass with zero experience

[Tradu]

Very small number?

Over 500 individual Mythic+ parses uploaded per day.

Overall 1 million heroic raid parses in the short time heroic raids have been open.



Despite overwhelming statistical evidence to the contrary.

Is this a bad time to point out that Feral is one of the least played specs in the game, meaning even when it is strong, it won't be highly represented simply for that reason? And 500 M+ parses mean absolutely nothing, because way more M+ than that get done every day, and not a lot of people log them

- - - Updated - - -

I'm really not interested in trading insults. If you want to be a complete jerk then you can do it with someone else. Honestly, I shouldn't even bother with a response but w/e *shrug*

- Outlaw Rogues don't need to set up their cleave or maintain it. They just...cleave. SotF helps Feral keep up on 3-target cleave but the more adds the less value we bring.
- Only with certain affixes will you see 3 target pulls. Most groups, even at high M+ levels will prefer burst AoE with the largest pulls they can safely handle.
- Feral ST is sustained. We easily lose to specs with better DPS cooldowns but even if we top a boss fight bosses are a small fraction of a M+ dungeon.

No one who plays Feral seriously is claiming that we're garbage in M+ or that we deserve to be declined. However, pretending that Feral is able to compete with other, better specs doesn't help the cause.

Good thing that on the M+ levels where comp matters things live for a long time, which favors how Feral does damage.

- - - Updated - - -

Not really. I mean, with a solid group any spec can obviously do any level Mythic dungeon. However, it's not an opinion that Feral is one of the weakest M+ specs to bring along.

Indeed, it's not an opinion, it's factually incorrect.

- - - Updated - - -

I take it your one of the 14 Feral's that has cleared Mythic+10.

Mythic +5 has 1 affix. What place is Feral in? 34th

Clearly Feral is doing fine in Mythic+

You really think everybody who has done +10 was logging? Also 34th out of 36 specs doesn't sound too far off considering it's the least played spec in the entire game, because even when specs like Survival are weak, there's people who will play it even if they have better options, simply because there's so many people playing the overall hunter class(once again, hunter is just an example)


And you guys bitching about how trash Feral is is just reinforcing the community perception of the spec, which is already bad enough. The spec is in a very strong spot, and people complaining about how it's somehow "trash" is not helping the playerbase at large realize that it's actually strong and worth bringing. You're just causing a self fulfilling prophecy kind of situation.

[Deleted]

i think most runs on +10 - +15 are logged as it is kinda noob unfriendly. So YES i think most of them were logged.

[Deleted]

i think most runs on +10 - +15 are logged as it is kinda noob unfriendly. So YES i think most of them were logged.

almost nobody i know logs mythic dungeons. Just did a quick check at minimum half of the groups that i know of having completed a +15 haven't logged. Probably 75% of the groups i know of that have done +10s (including mine) haven't logged.

Logging m+ dungeons is NOT something that's widely done.

[-aiko-]

And you guys bitching about how trash Feral is is just reinforcing the community perception of the spec, which is already bad enough.

Ah, I forgot that this is the internet where we bunch people together and ignore what they're actually saying. I won't speak for anyone else but I've never said Feral is trash. A good feral in a good group will do fine, as will any spec. However, if we're going to compare Feral to other specs for Mythic+ content then the reality is there are other specs who bring more to the table. Look at a Windwalker Monk: better burst, infinitely better utility/CC. Fists of Fury is downright ridiculous.

I think it's downright stupid to decline anyone, especially since your typical pug isn't going to be anything special. If somebody asks me the state of Feral in Mythic+, though, I'm going to give them an honest answer so they know the challenge they're going to face.

[Tradu]

Ah, I forgot that this is the internet where we bunch people together and ignore what they're actually saying. I won't speak for anyone else but I've never said Feral is trash. A good feral in a good group will do fine, as will any spec. However, if we're going to compare Feral to other specs for Mythic+ content then the reality is there are other specs who bring more to the table. Look at a Windwalker Monk: better burst, infinitely better utility/CC. Fists of Fury is downright ridiculous.

I think it's downright stupid to decline anyone, especially since your typical pug isn't going to be anything special. If somebody asks me the state of Feral in Mythic+, though, I'm going to give them an honest answer so they know the challenge they're going to face.

Yes, there's other specs that bring more to the table, but it's not some massive divide. Havoc, WW and Fire are the only 3 I'd say are noticeably better. And even then there's arguments for Feral's higher sustained DPS(which is what matters in higher M+ because it's just not possible to burst AoE everything down).

The only reason that expectation of "If you play Feral, you need to get used to lots of declines" exists is because people keep repeating this idea that Feral is somehow weak, when in reality it's stronger than the vast majority of specs(including the other DPS spec of the druid class).
So to reiterate on Feral's state in M+: Feral is not weak, and getting declined means the group leader is either an idiot or got 100000 mage applications(which is usually the case) and picked those over the Feral. The only real challenge Feral faces in M+ is the idiotic idea that it's a weak spec when the opposite is the case.

[Lucrece]

Would you describe outlaw rogues as a weak m+ spec? Just curious. Because on 3 or so targets that live for moderate duration. I.e. the kind of pulls you do in high m+ level. If we play SOTF we have equivalent cleave to outlaw rogues. We also have better single target.

So.

Either you'd describe outlaw rogue as trash for mythic+, or you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

And ofc. No brainer. if we play SR we have the best single target in the game. Which with tyrannical. is KIND of good.

If you're not capable of getting maximum performance out of it then no shit it won't perform. but if you are. Its more than equivalent if not superior to many of the classes that you'd call good in mythic +

please.

stop this fucking kanker meme of "hurr durr feral bad in m+ because declined for +2"

Outlaw rogue aoe, especially with the legendary ring, puts them on par with aoe with havoc demonhunters, and outlaw rogues do significantly more single target damage than havoc DH.

There are reasons to bring outlaw besides 2-3 target cleave as well. Rogue utility in general is amazing. You can gouge to stop any protected cast like the boulderback crystal spray in Neltharion's Lair, and gouge has a significantly lower cd than most of the stuns being used. Then you have sap and blind for cc and skips.

To top that off, rogues are extremely easy on your healers. Feint, cloak of shadows, crimson vial make them ridiculously survivable, which allows them to ignore certain mechanics, or make them easier for the rest of your group where any soaking mechanic is involved.

Feral just brings damage and if you want to call it actually useful, blood talon spot heals.

When you bring classes that only have damage to offer, then people are obviously going to compare them to other classes that just do damage and are light on utility. And conclude that something as OP and ridiculously more convenient than yet another melee such as a fire mage or shadow priest or marksman hunter will be preferable over a feral.

That's just from a pug perspective, which is why people ought to wise up and find a guild that takes capable players regardless of class. I don't think anybody in their right mind is even pugging past +8, so if people want to get +10's done like everyone else is doing, you find a guild and then class selection is no longer an issue.

---

We've cleared +10 with ELE shamans. +10 can be done with any class/spec, though obviously you want someone who can stun at those levels.

I think ferals should be arguing for more utility tbh. I don't know why bash is a 50 sec cd that can be parried and is a single target melee range stun while leg sweep is a 45 sec cd aoe conal stun and demonhunters gain a baseline 360 aoe stun on as low as a 30 sec cd.

I also don't know why they had to go and nerf stampeding roar for ferals or remove cyclone.