World of RNGcraft

[Pufster]

Anyone else have some annoyances/frustrations with the rng in this expansion?

We kinda know why Blizzard implements something like this: to keep people playing hoping for that +5ilvl drop.
But frankly, for me it had the opposite effect. I cancelled my account today cause this entire game went into a pure luck game.

In every aspect of the game they introduced rng. Even professions. You don't have the rank 3? Well tough luck, now you can't make a profit seeing the rank 3 players control everything.

Legendarys: either you give everyone one, or you don't or make a long (hard) quest. Having items which increase your power so much being covered by a rng wall is idiotic. Let's not forget the system was bugged since the start and people either got 2 or 3, or their effort since the beginning weeks were pointless.

Titanforged: i'm so sick of this system. What was wrong with fixed ilvls? I can do a mythic 2+ And pray and get better loot than mythic 8 or a heroic raid.

Alt-unfriendly or even dual spec: look how the systems are made: this just screws over alts. Blizzard can say all they want with artifact knowledge. This expansion still shits on alts. Same with dual spec. Artifact power and relics are not per character. Why? To keep us playing? Ha.

I suspect alot of people saying it's fine alrdy got their lucky drops. Just like people like me who hate the system who are not lucky. That is the thing. In past expansions you did raids/dungeons you got steadily geared up. Now everyone demands curves/leg/titanforged cause blizzard introduced that and without that lucky drop you are nothing

I feel like a rat in a box repeatidly pulling the same lever hoping something drops.

[Qnubi]

First, they brought WoW developers to ruin D3, then, they introduced aRPG developers to ruin WoW. Now it has gone full circle, kind of ironic.

[Deleted]

People have the wrong mindset about Titanforget. Treat all items as a fixed ilvl. If you get an upgrade, great. But don't go around doing 830 ilvl world quests in hope that you will get a Titanforged and think that it is a legit way to gear up. The game has a clear path of ilvl progression as it has always had. Titanforged is meant as bonus, not as a way to progress through the game.

[Chrno]

People have the wrong mindset about Titanforget. Treat all items as a fixed ilvl. If you get an upgrade, great. But don't go around doing 830 ilvl world quests in hope that you will get a Titanforged and think that it is a legit way to gear up. The game has a clear path of ilvl progression as it has always had. Titanforged is meant as bonus, not as a way to progress through the game.

^ this;

sadly some people don't agree with this and we end up all with all these Q_Q threads on MMO-champ ;p

[Pufster]

People have the wrong mindset about Titanforget. Treat all items as a fixed ilvl. If you get an upgrade, great. But don't go around doing 830 ilvl world quests in hope that you will get a Titanforged and think that it is a legit way to gear up. The game has a clear path of ilvl progression as it has always had. Titanforged is meant as bonus, not as a way to progress through the game.

The fact you see so many players saying "im stuck at ilvl 850" says alot. Its centered on having lucky procs so much its not even funny.
Everything is rng now. Everything.

[vsb]

Professions are not necessary for character progression, you can ask your guildies or use AH, so I don't see problem here. It's actually makes game more interesting, like good old times, when there were very few people with some recipe. It's not that hardcore, anyway.

Legendaries seems to be terrible at start of expansions, but, honestly, it was a month and almost half people have at least one. So 2-3 months for 1 legendary in average and you have 3-5 legendaries after a year. But yes, currently it's bad. I would prefer much higher droprate, so I can have all legendaries ready before my first raid. It would become like talents: choose best for each boss. Interesting and fun concept. Not fun now.

Titanforged could be fun, if they would increase +1 .. +5 ilvl in dungeons, +3 ... +15 ilvl in raid. So you could be very lucky to have one tier increase, but otherwise your items won't be much more powerful due to luck or you won't be jelaous that someone got this crazy WF increase. Yet you'll have positive emotions, anyway, when it happens.

Situation with AP is bad now, but it'll be fixed in few monthes, I believe, when crazy amounts of AK will allow to level any artifact in no time.

So basically this expansion is in terrible state ATM, but it'll be much better after 6-12 months, if you are actively playing. I hope that Blizzard will learn their lessons.

[Deleted]

really, it's not that big of a deal. all that titanforged does, is giving people who don't do endcontent much a possibility to progress on gear. And that's a good thing, even if I as a progression raider do not benefit from it. At all. It complicates things for us if we wanna minmax our game.
the only rng that is really just total bullshit is the legendary stuff. this also has not a big impact on casuals, but if you are going for mythic firstkills on your server or stuff like that...it's just damn frustrating. People who benefitted from the bug are weeks/months ahead, some dudes have 3-4 legendaries...and some still have none after 20 days /played.

So yeah, you have a point. But TF is actually not that big of a deal. And even though I did not get pots rank 3 on my alchemist I do fine on getting profit. I guess there hasn't been a xpac for a long time, where professions/farming was that profittable.

[Okacz]

People have the wrong mindset about Titanforget. Treat all items as a fixed ilvl. If you get an upgrade, great. But don't go around doing 830 ilvl world quests in hope that you will get a Titanforged and think that it is a legit way to gear up. The game has a clear path of ilvl progression as it has always had. Titanforged is meant as bonus, not as a way to progress through the game.

You can't tell people how they should feel about a system. If you could, it would be the most OP power in the world.

"Excuse me, you should clean up after your dog"
"You have the wrong mindset. Instead of thinking that I leave dog feces on the grass, think about how I just made the soil more fertile"
"You're right now. Boy, do I feel stupid"

If people FEEL a certain way about a system, it's a flawed system. Looks good on paper, but in reality, with an opportunity for an upgrade of every item you get, getting a non-upgraded item leaves this little bad taste in your mouth. Whether this system is really better than the previous one, where you knew exacly what you will be getting and could aim for it, is up for a debate. But it's never "people have the wrong mindset".

[Deleted]

Also, bad things are remembered better than good things, so if you see not getting a lucky roll as a bad thing, instead of having it as the neutral baseline, then you will get an increasingly worsened view of your loot progress.

Besides that, nothing is more annoying than having a random upgrade proc, even a good one, on an item with bad stats.

[Dominus89]

The fact you see so many players saying "im stuck at ilvl 850" says alot. Its centered on having lucky procs so much its not even funny.
Everything is rng now. Everything.

You cant be stuck at 850, if you are... then you're not playing enough.
Or just run around doing WQs hoping you win the lottery and get a high proc.


Oh and I've run mythic and mythic+ dungeons since release a couple of hours every day and I've only seen one legendary drop during that time and I was sadly not the one to get it.
I also havent been lucky with getting high procs on gear either, so the last statement in your post couldnt be any more wrong.

[Xirrohon]

The RNG element does have me questioning if I want to keep on playing or not. I have done more than 100 M+ and have rarely received an upgrade. I have players in my guild with 4 Legendaries and the only one that I have is Prydaz. The shit neck that shouldnt be a Legendary that any DPS gets. Anyway, it sucks that you bust your ass trying/hoping for something that meets your stat priority let alone a chance to Titanforge. There needs to be some kind of mechanic that fights the RNG element.

Honestly, the only people that have 'really good' gear in my guild are the ones that do nothing but play the game all day. People that have go to work/school basically get screwed over. The amount of things to do in this game to stay competitive is really absurd but thats a completely different conversation.

[Deleted]

The game was always rng, there has nothing, not the tiniest bit, changed.
You dont realize it just because now its itemlevel-up compared to general (or world) drops at all.
Did you even know there still is trash loot in EN? I havent seen any groups trying to farm that yet, admitted I dont check LFG all too often.

The shit neck that shouldnt be a Legendary that any DPS gets. Anyway, it sucks that you bust your ass trying/hoping for something that meets your stat priority let alone a chance to Titanforge.

Firstly that necklace allows you to continue DPS or survive where others have to early evade or die.
Secondly, just do M+ higher instead of low content with hopes of upgrades.

[Deleted]

The fact you see so many players saying "im stuck at ilvl 850" says alot. Its centered on having lucky procs so much its not even funny.
Everything is rng now. Everything.

At 850 ilvl you are able to do HC Nightmare which drops 865 ilvl gear. With 850 ilvl you will be able to do at least mythic +4/+5 which, outside of the drops from the dungeons themselves, gives you 865 ilvl loot at the end of the week. Really, the post normal mode raid progression isn't at all slower than before. If anything, it is faster because of Mythic +. There have been times when I am raiding with my guild and getting no upgrades for weeks. In HFC, for example, I didn't get an upgrade for 3 weeks! Yeah, maybe 3 weeks is uncommon, but my point is that gear progression naturally slows down when we enter hc/mythic item levels of gear.

What I think is happening here is that the game offers you so many ways to gear fast and efficiently from 800 to 850 ilvl that when the progression slows down people can't adapt to the slower pace while being accustomed to getting 5 upgrades a day from world quests so they blame the fictitious gear wall on the RNG.

[Okacz]

While you are giving good arguments and examples, a system isn't automatically flawed because people "FEEL a certain way". Maybe they are just whiney. Or lazy. Or bored at work. The customer isn't always right.

Especially since there is not ONE SINGLE feature in WoW where EVERYBODY agrees on. Because by that logic everything is in the dumps because somebody has a certain "FEELING"

Yes, but still, we're talking about video games here. The quintessence of "feel". You can make a game with great systems, graphics and such, but it suddenly fails because it didn't "feel" right. As a creator you can blame those pesky players who didn't know what mindset they should have. It won't matter. You failed. Same goes for books ("the reader didn't really understand me" and such) or any other media, but games and overall interactive media are most prone to that.

So yeah, this feature is good. It's correct. Mathematically, it makes sense, the upgrades happen frequently enough for fluid progression (that's what the chart with statistics shows). Oops - the user is interacting with it in a completly different way, they don't ignore the system and just get happy once in a while, they try to force a result by trying over and over again, getting frustrated by not getting upgrades tied to RNG. We probably didn't really know our user. If only we tested it better.

[Ornerybear]

People have the wrong mindset about Titanforget. Treat all items as a fixed ilvl. If you get an upgrade, great. But don't go around doing 830 ilvl world quests in hope that you will get a Titanforged and think that it is a legit way to gear up. The game has a clear path of ilvl progression as it has always had. Titanforged is meant as bonus, not as a way to progress through the game.

i too agree with this. i always evaluate what content im doing by the base level item I can receive. this also comes with the perk that the content will have a higher chance of rewarding higher gear. play harder content, get better gear...yup dont see anything wrong here.

plus it's nice, for instance, like lastnight I ran a a quick EoS heroic with the group finder tool. last thing i was doing for the night only had a couple minutes left, so i decided to just grab that WQ. I got lucky and got two titanforged upgrades. two lucky drops off content below my item level. great! cool! whats important though is i went into that dungeon expecting to come out of it with nothing more than the WQ AP item.

people are expecting item upgrade procs all the time and rage when it doesnt happen. /shrug

[Sencha]

First, they brought WoW developers to ruin D3, then, they introduced aRPG developers to ruin WoW. Now it has gone full circle, kind of ironic.

So true... Thanks Jay.

[avoidconfusion]

Definitely need more threads on this!

[Xirrohon]

Firstly that necklace allows you to continue DPS or survive where others have to early evade or die.
Secondly, just do M+ higher instead of low content with hopes of upgrades.

Like I said, meets your stat priority. My main stat priority is Crit. My last three M+ Caches: M8 Haste/Mastery bracers, M10 Haste/Mastery Belt, M10 Mastery/Vers neck.

Yea, Prydaz helps me live longer... maybe if Im bad. As a DPS your job is to pump out big numbers. Prydaz isnt even on the list of Legendaries that helps with Mage DPS. Compared to Bracers/Ring its laughable.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Anyone else have some annoyances/frustrations with the rng in this expansion?

We kinda know why Blizzard implements something like this: to keep people playing hoping for that +5ilvl drop.
But frankly, for me it had the opposite effect. I cancelled my account today cause this entire game went into a pure luck game.

In every aspect of the game they introduced rng. Even professions. You don't have the rank 3? Well tough luck, now you can't make a profit seeing the rank 3 players control everything.

Legendarys: either you give everyone one, or you don't or make a long (hard) quest. Having items which increase your power so much being covered by a rng wall is idiotic. Let's not forget the system was bugged since the start and people either got 2 or 3, or their effort since the beginning weeks were pointless.

Titanforged: i'm so sick of this system. What was wrong with fixed ilvls? I can do a mythic 2+ And pray and get better loot than mythic 8 or a heroic raid.

Alt-unfriendly or even dual spec: look how the systems are made: this just screws over alts. Blizzard can say all they want with artifact knowledge. This expansion still shits on alts. Same with dual spec. Artifact power and relics are not per character. Why? To keep us playing? Ha.

I suspect alot of people saying it's fine alrdy got their lucky drops. Just like people like me who hate the system who are not lucky. That is the thing. In past expansions you did raids/dungeons you got steadily geared up. Now everyone demands curves/leg/titanforged cause blizzard introduced that and without that lucky drop you are nothing

I feel like a rat in a box repeatidly pulling the same lever hoping something drops.

You are just approaching all these things from the complete wrong angle.
These things are EXTRA. You don't need a legendary, you will get one eventually. It's not an RNG wall, you are assured to get one the more you play.
There is nothing to be sick of about Titanforged gear. Its a nice bonus when you get a 20+ item level piece from content you aren't expecting to see it from, and its a GREAT incentive to keep people interested in lower tier content.
NO IDEA how you can be saying its off spec unfriendly when every single piece of gear other than trinkets can be used between specs, and there are even some trinkets that aren't bad for both! That is just stupid and proves to me you aren't playing the game. I have 22 points in my Holy Weapon and 20 in my prot weapon, and I can barely play outside of raid nights.
Now ALT unfriendly, I can understand, but that's what happens when you say there is no content in the game. What you suddenly want your whole account to have max level toons that are as geared as your main? Get a fucking clue.

You just play the game, and get some fun luck here and there. Its not mandatory to play the game, and no one is requiring you to have titan forged gear lol.

This is really exemplary of the issues with this game's community. All they see is negative in every single part of the game instead of simply just PLAYING the game and getting the good with the bad.

Frankly, I think all these systems are working flawlessly. I LOVE the feeling of a titanforged piece dropping, and I know I will be very very excited when I get my legendary, but until then I am still doing very well in raids and 5 mans because I know how to play the game.
I also really like the idea of only being able to focus on one Alt. CMs were fun because you were able to prepare so many characters to the item level baseline that was needed, but I much prefer the old days where having a max level character fully geared took time, dedication, and of course grinding.
Its really no different.

The best gear still comes from Mythic progression raiding. Once you clear Mythic, you won't be worried about titanforging or whatever.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact you see so many players saying "im stuck at ilvl 850" says alot. Its centered on having lucky procs so much its not even funny.
Everything is rng now. Everything.

Yes but if you are stuck at 850 you are just bad. Go raid and you wont be stuck there for long.
There is no RNG in gearing up past that. The only RNG that is present is breaking past 880 after multiple clears of Mythic 7/7.

The "RNG" you describe is just a nice bonus. If you are 850 trying to do normal you should be happy Blizzard gave you so many ways to out gear content with this RNG.

[aysatsana]

Another thing that annoys me is that the BiS trinket for a lot of classes drops for a world boss... I failed at RNG so I didn't get it these 2 weeks even though I bonus rolled. When's the last time a BiS trinket was from a world boss that won't probably won't spawn again for like 8 weeks?

Not only that but legendaries are pure rng, some people already have 2-3, while others who have been doing mythics every week and the world quest daily don't have one yet. Also, the type of legendary itself is RNG aswell, some are total shit while some are OP.

Not to mention titanforged, some guy in my guild got the withered jim titanforged to 895... pretty sure that's the BiS for the whole xpac. The fact that you can get some amazing items from world quest is pretty silly.

That being said I do log on everyday to do my world quest in hopes of getting my legendary... so I guess it keeps me playing.