Vengeance Vers Vs mastery

[Deleted]

DR means "Damage Reduction" in this context, not "Diminishing Return".

uh that completely went over my head.
but while we are at it, does someone know the Diminishing Return on Crit/Parry? i think it starts out at about 515 points for 1% but more points are required the more you have.

[Halkcyon]

Versatility is the choice stat after you achieve 25% haste. It reduces all damage, increases all damage done, increases all healing done. Ultimately, it's the priority stat after mastery got nerfed so significantly (50%!) as the other poster in this thread has already done the math for. Mastery only helps while you have spikes up and only against physical damage.

[TyloBedo]

400 Vers is 1% or 0.5% DR (0.0025% DR per 1 point (not %) of Vers)
466 Mastery is 1% DR on Mastery. (0.0021% DR per 1 point before calculating uptime)

Unless things have changed in recent expansions (haven't tanked in awhile) your numbers are extremely misleading / inaccurate.
466 mastery may be 1% additional damage reduction from mastery, but you start out with 26% baseline damage reduction on demon spikes, so your first 1% of mastery is actually reducing damage taken by about 1.37% during demon spikes (0.0029%) and it scales up very quickly.

5126 mastery (+11%) gives you 17.4% damage reduction from mastery and gaining an addition 1% mastery would net you an addition 1.61% damage reduction (0.0035% dr per point)

5126 vers gives you 6.4% damage reduction and an addition 466 vers nets you .64% additional damage reduction.

[Tech614]

Unless things have changed in recent expansions (haven't tanked in awhile) your numbers are extremely misleading / inaccurate.
466 mastery may be 1% additional damage reduction from mastery, but you start out with 26% baseline damage reduction on demon spikes, so your first 1% of mastery is actually reducing damage taken by about 1.37% during demon spikes (0.0029%) and it scales up very quickly.

5126 mastery (+11%) gives you 17.4% damage reduction from mastery and gaining an addition 1% mastery would net you an addition 1.61% damage reduction (0.0035% dr per point)

5126 vers gives you 6.4% damage reduction and an addition 466 vers nets you .64% additional damage reduction.

Mastery is not additive. The only form of additive DR that applies to any tank in the game is brewmaster stagger and that's not even DR, just damage delay.

You're not doing it right. You not tanking for so long isn't an excuse either as it's never been this way for DR ever.

[Deleted]

400 Vers is 1% or 0.5% DR (0.0025% DR per 1 point (not %) of Vers)
466 Mastery is 1% DR on Mastery. (0.0021% DR per 1 point before calculating uptime)

After giving it a second thought i think you screwed up your numbers here.

1 point Versatility gives you (1 / 800 =) 0,00125% damage reduction and not 0.0025%.

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Unless things have changed in recent expansions (haven't tanked in awhile) your numbers are extremely misleading / inaccurate.
466 mastery may be 1% additional damage reduction from mastery, but you start out with 26% baseline damage reduction on demon spikes, so your first 1% of mastery is actually reducing damage taken by about 1.37% during demon spikes (0.0029%) and it scales up very quickly.

5126 mastery (+11%) gives you 17.4% damage reduction from mastery and gaining an addition 1% mastery would net you an addition 1.61% damage reduction (0.0035% dr per point)

5126 vers gives you 6.4% damage reduction and an addition 466 vers nets you .64% additional damage reduction.

i just want to highlight here that this is basically about the effect of stacking and mastery is still better for that from a physical mitigation point of view.

Mastery is not additive. The only form of additive DR that applies to any tank in the game is brewmaster stagger and that's not even DR, just damage delay.

You're not doing it right. You not tanking for so long isn't an excuse either as it's never been this way for DR ever.

if you are talking about mastery scaling with demon spikes it is indeed additive. of course it's not additive with e.g. armor or versatility but he never said anything about that.

[Tech614]

if you are talking about mastery scaling with demon spikes it is indeed additive. of course it's not additive with e.g. armor or versatility but he never said anything about that.

Except it's not. Go look at your numbers on the tanking dummy with varying amounts of mastery and get back to me.

No form of DR is additive. Stagger on a brewmaster is additive but that is only damage delay and not reduction.

The fact you actually think mastery is additive is mind boggling. Yea before the nerf to mastery DS would have meant immunity to physical damage by time Nighthold gear rolled around LMAO. Even post nerf, mastery would be ridiculous and need even further nerfs if it was indeed additive.

Nothing to worry about guys, mastery is additive which means Vengeance will be the strongest tank in another tier... lmao.

[Deleted]

Except it's not. Go look at your numbers on the tanking dummy with varying amounts of mastery and get back to me.

No form of DR is additive. Stagger on a brewmaster is additive but that is only damage delay and not reduction.

The fact you actually think mastery is additive is mind boggling. Yea before the nerf to mastery DS would have meant immunity to physical damage by time Nighthold gear rolled around LMAO. Even post nerf, mastery would be ridiculous and need even further nerfs if it was indeed additive.

Nothing to worry about guys, mastery is additive which means Vengeance will be the strongest tank in another tier... lmao.

well, i did exactly that and it's additive. same with versatility by the way. there is no Diminishing Return point either as far as i got with mastery (~8k). it's just 466 points per % from 0% up to probably 100%.

Even post nerf, mastery would be ridiculous and need even further nerfs if it was indeed additive.

welcome to the dark (mastery-)side.

[Tech614]

well, i did exactly that and it's additive. same with versatility by the way. there is no Diminishing Return point either as far as i got with mastery (~8k). it's just 466 points per % from 0% up to probably 100%.

welcome to the dark (mastery-)side.

"Take my word for it bro, I tested it"

I don't think you understand how DR in this game works. Are you new to tanking by chance?

The fact you claim armor wasn't additive says all you need to know- armor actually IS additive which is why there is diminishing returns on how much % armor gives you the higher you get. To get you the same result that multiplicative Damage Reduction(literally the entire game) works.

[Deleted]

Nothing to worry about guys, mastery is additive which means Vengeance will be the strongest tank in another tier... lmao.

Go look at t19 4p.

[Deleted]

"Take my word for it bro, I tested it"

I don't think you understand how DR in this game works. Are you new to tanking by chance?

if beginning of TBC is new for you then you got me.

The fact you claim armor wasn't additive says all you need to know- armor actually IS additive which is why there is diminishing returns on how much % armor gives you the higher you get. To get you the same result that multiplicative Damage Reduction(literally the entire game) works.

i was refering to multiplicative behavior of armor in combination with other stats as for example versatility. if you still don't understand what i mean by that you should probably look up some of the words you throw around so liberately.

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Also where the f did i bring up armor? are you making stuff up?

[Deleted]

Also where the f did i bring up armor? are you making stuff up?

he's a known troll, shouldn't bother arguing with him :s

[Tech614]

he's a known troll, shouldn't bother arguing with him :s

There is no argument. There is a bunch of people who don't understand how the game works and think DH immunity to physical damage is technically possible(and would have been real, real early on before the nerf). Thanks for trying.

[Varmin]

There is no argument. There is a bunch of people who don't understand how the game works and think DH immunity to physical damage is technically possible(and would have been real, real early on before the nerf). Thanks for trying.

If you want to be taken seriously, maybe try to provide proof that your idea that mastery works counter to how the game presents how it works, how stats have typically worked for a long time, and the most popular understanding of how it works.

[Tech614]

If you want to be taken seriously, maybe try to provide proof that your idea that mastery works counter to how the game presents how it works, how stats have typically worked for a long time, and the most popular understanding of how it works.

Except you have it opposite. I am saying it works like the game has always worked.

[Deleted]

Except you have it opposite. I am saying it works like the game has always worked.

and i am saying i tested it. version 7.0.3. so if you want to discuss this topic any further i'd recommend you get some counter argument apart from "i don't believe you cause wow never changes lololol".
makes you look really bad.

here are some numbers from my char so you can check them.. not even gonna solve them because i know it's 466 mastery for 1% anyway.

8961 mastery = 19.20%
5868 mastery = 12.57%
2300 mastery = 4.93%

Damage gets reduced by the exact amount it states in the game apart from maybe a few 0.X% but i am pretty sure you realize that's because of the missing digits in the game's tooltip.
if you need help to solve them just ask, i am sure someone else can help you figure out how you get the rating for 1%.

[Deleted]

Surprisingly silent here since i posted the numbers.
Guess our friend Tech614 doesn't like to be wrong.

[Tech614]

The fact you still don't understand a 100% DS would not be immune to physical damage makes you not even worth discussing mechanics with. You're so out of touch and off base and refuse to learn. You really bump this post to toot your own horn? I did you a favor by not replying to you.

Damage gets reduced by the exact amount it states in the game

Yes, in fact it does. You're right. Except for the part where you don't understand the numbers are multiplicative and not additive. The fact you still don't understand this and are trying to argue otherwise is mind boggling. If any DR existed in the game that was additive it would be flat out broken without diminishing returns. You need to go back and learn the basics of WoW mechanics and numbers before you try to theory craft.

Going to go ahead and tab you for the ignore list, what a waste of time this discussion has been.

[DeuZWw]

I don't think the answer is Versality or Mastery, i think it really depends on talents, gear and to not fully stack anything at all.

been running with some good lot of Versality, 14,70% right now. That's 7% less damage in general. been running with Soul Rending, and i think it's great.

This is my armory:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...skoll/advanced


Still haven't done anything past normal. started trying Heroics last week(Wiping at Nythendra because my core is a little Casual)
However, i think i can safely say that for Ursoc you should use DMC Immortality, it gives a pretty good reduction on Physical damage(about 4% at minimum up to 8%. less or more)

Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but Soul Barrier can be used for Rend Flesh ticks can't it? the minimum reduction will work for each tick, giving some good reduction. Of course, that would mean you won't have your Extra-Life if shit goes wrong, but Soul Barrier is kinda good when you are taking damage from separated sources or ticks. I haven't actually tested it to know if it works for each tick, but i have been using Soul Barrier for fights with multiple Ads to tank or many DoTS and it's have been great.


If anyone is curious, here are the logs of nythendra wipes: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tu6ev9idv6rage7y/ EDIT: just to clarify, the logs here i haven't been using Soul Barrier. So if you are looking for this data, don't waste your time. lol

i've only started Heroic Raiding, and still have no plans on starting mythic anytime soon. But so far i think DHs are pretty good. Little less good after the Single Target and Mastery Nerf, but still doable.

[andreasels]

The fact you still don't understand a 100% DS would not be immune to physical damage makes you not even worth discussing mechanics with. You're so out of touch and off base and refuse to learn. You really bump this post to toot your own horn? I did you a favor by not replying to you.



Yes, in fact it does. You're right. Except for the part where you don't understand the numbers are multiplicative and not additive. The fact you still don't understand this and are trying to argue otherwise is mind boggling. If any DR existed in the game that was additive it would be flat out broken without diminishing returns. You need to go back and learn the basics of WoW mechanics and numbers before you try to theory craft.

Going to go ahead and tab you for the ignore list, what a waste of time this discussion has been.

So how much percent of total damage would you take with a 100% DS then in your opinion (not that it would be reachable anyways)?

Damage reduction not being additive should only apply if there is damage reduction from different sources. So if Versatility gives you 10% damage reduction and demon spikes 40%, you won't have 50%, but 1-0,6*0,9=46% damage reduction.

However since DS counts as 1 source you get 20% base + damage reduction of mastery, so if mastery would give you 80% damage reduction, you would take no physical damage at all during DS, unless of course there is some hard cap at like 75% damage reduction or so.

Since you can't reach Mastery values anywhere near the value which would grant you 80% damage reduction from scaling alone, it isn't broken.

[Deleted]

The fact you still don't understand a 100% DS would not be immune to physical damage makes you not even worth discussing mechanics with. You're so out of touch and off base and refuse to learn. You really bump this post to toot your own horn? I did you a favor by not replying to you.

my point stands, my numbers stand. where are yours?
blizzard even nerfed mastery because of that exact reason but you are still too blind to see.
well, not my problem in the end.

Yes, in fact it does. You're right. Except for the part where you don't understand the numbers are multiplicative and not additive. The fact you still don't understand this and are trying to argue otherwise is mind boggling. If any DR existed in the game that was additive it would be flat out broken without diminishing returns. You need to go back and learn the basics of WoW mechanics and numbers before you try to theory craft.

except they are additive. broken as well mabye. i wouldn't design stats like that and i wonder why blizzard decided to do it like that but it is what it is.
still no numbers from your site though. just assumptions.

Going to go ahead and tab you for the ignore list, what a waste of time this discussion has been.

exactly what a loser without solid evidence would do i guess.